Standing Rock/Spirit Lake

[GeauxSioux]

Tribe votes to reject UNDnickname

The Standing Rock Sioux Tribe has three years to decide where it stands on the issue of the Fighting Sioux nickname.

But it didn't even take three weeks for tribal officials to firmly state their position.

The tribal council on Friday voted 8-1 to reaffirm its opposition to the University of North Dakota's nickname and logo.

However, two members chose not to vote on Friday, and six others were absent, council member David Bird said. UND still has until 2010 to coax a different decision from the tribe.

[Goon]

However, two members chose not to vote on Friday, and six others were absent, council member David Bird said. UNDstill has until 2010 to coax a different decision from the tribe.

Looks like they are missing over half of their members.

[Siouxman]

Looks like they are missing over half of their members.

Don't disillusion yourself that this can be overturned in a meeting where most or all of the members show up. We meet with tribes occasionally, or I should say try to meet with them. Almost 50% of the time, no one from the tribe shows up.

[ScottM]

This only serves to validate my contention that it's really a waste of time to deal with these tribes, and the settlement was nothing more than a complete surrender. Retire the name on our own terms, forget the tribes, and move on. Let's quit deluding ourselves that these people will be reasonable at any time. F**k 'em

[Goon]

This only serves to validate my contention that it's really a waste of time to deal with these tribes, and the settlement was nothing more than a complete surrender. Retire the name on our own terms, forget the tribes, and move on. Let's quit deluding ourselves that these people will be reasonable at any time. F**k 'em

I agree with ScottM on this.

[Chewey]

Why in the He!! did the AG agree that both tribes need to give permission?? For everyone else, only one tribe is supposedly required right? I think it would be possible to get the Spirit Lake Tribe on board but I'm not so sure about the Standing Rock Tribe. I agree that the state should have gone forward to trial and made the NC00 change its bylaws formally. I still am not convinced that the NC00 would have had the votes to do that but I am a total outsider. I still would like to think that the AG and the state officials know something about possibilities that I don't. The tribes would be pretty stupid, financially speaking, to not come to some agreement with UND. But like my dad who works on a res says, "rational thinking is not really part of the native mindset" or the PC mindset for that matter.

[Goon]

Why in the He!! did the AG agree that both tribes need to give permission?? For everyone else, only one tribe is supposedly required right? I think it would be possible to get the Spirit Lake Tribe on board but I'm not so sure about the Standing Rock Tribe. I agree that the state should have gone forward to trial and made the NC00 change its bylaws formally. I still am not convinced that the NC00 would have had the votes to do that but I am a total outsider. I still would like to think that the AG and the state officials know something about possibilities that I don't. The tribes would be pretty stupid, financially speaking, to not come to some agreement with UND. But like my dad who works on a res says, "rational thinking is not really part of the native mindset" or the PC mindset for that matter.

Just as long as it isn't FLICKERTAILS, I am beginning to like the name Calvary more and more.

[iramurphy]

Why is anyone even giving the tribal Government the time of day? They already made their point, we took it to court. The NCAA would have lost this round and won the next. Therefore we have a settlement. We can whine about it but it is what it is.

Drop the name and if the tribes want to associate with UND they can make a proposal and UND can consider it. You don't pay someone to honor them. The tribes simply say they don't wish to be honored. That is not the message UND received from their elders many years ago and it is the tribes who have chosen to dishonor their elders not UND. diversity is only important to them when it is to their disadvantage. They make no attempt to understand our culture and what UND was trying to do. In fact if you read some of their rhetoric they will also tell us why UND adopted the name in the first place. For those activists who worked hard to change the name congratulations. For those who lobbied with misinformation and scare tactics, fabricated stories of the racial incidents, or exagerated stories of real incidents, good luck with finding some other issue to stir your juices.

It is over, lets get on with the things that are more improtant and a lot more pleasant than dealing with the likes of His Horse is Thunder (especially if you put prunes in his hay) and support UND and Sioux athletics. We can cheer for the Sioux as long as we wish. We still have the right of free speech. Leave the NA students alone and don't harass them. They are UND students first and formost and deserve a chance at a good education and a great college experience same as the rest of us. No one can keep us from waering Fighting Sioux attire. no one will care that much about the issue when UND wins another FB, BB, swimming, hockey, or other sports championships.

We look weak to those elsewhere and especially on the Rez when we come begging or buying. Time to move on.

[SiouxMD]

Just as long as it isn't FLICKERTAILS, I am beginning to like the name Calvary more and more.

Goon...nothing personal but the University of North Dakota will never be the Calvary or even the Cavalry because few can remember which is correct.

HINT: Remember 7th Cav not 7th Cal.

[mikeypat15]

What happens if we drop the name, do all the American Indian Programs go away?

[The Sicatoka]

What happens if we drop the name, do all the American Indian Programs go away?

No, they'll just have to learn to deal with not getting special treatment and support and become more self-sustaining (like every other program on campus has to).

The better question is:

How long until someone challenges INMED as a race-based quota program in the courts?

[sioux7>5]

Go Cavalry! I am growing tired of having to deal with tribes. But then someone needs to stop letting them being racist and using the words Sioux in their advertisments. I have never seen a more hypocritcal group of people in my life then the tribal leaders.

One more point. I am starting to see Ron His Cow is His Silence the same as Al Sharpton or jesse Jackson. They all need to shut the hell up!

[The Sicatoka]

The tribes simply say they don't wish to be honored. That is not the message UND received from their elders many years ago and it is the tribes who have chosen to dishonor their elders not UND.

That's the irony I love in this.

... support UND and Sioux athletics. We can cheer for the Sioux as long as we wish. We still have the right of free speech.

No, we don't really. The settlement requires instituting a new moniker. I, personally, will never speak the old moniker again.

If they want to be forgotten and left to history's scrap heap so be it.

[Oxbow6]

No, they'll just have to learn to deal with not getting special treatment and support and become more self-sustaining (like every other program on campus has to).

The better question is:

How long until someone challenges INMED as a race-based quota program in the courts?

Enough with any communication with the Sioux tribes. Change tha name on the time table set by UND. Make Indian students adhere to the same admission criteria as their peers. I can see someone challenging the INMED program if the nickname/logo is changed.

Was at a FB game a couple of years ago and was standing at the north endzone walk-way. Struck up a conversation with a professor within the Engineering dept. about the logo/nickname issue. This person said that 3M was looking to grant 2 full scholarships to Indian student within the Engineering department. The problem, according to this prof., was that they could NOT find 2 QUALIFIED Indians student to give the scholarships to as their math skills were not even close to the other students applying for a slot in the engineering program.

So proceed as UND sees fit and own their own terms and treat the Indian students EQUALLY as their peers and then what to hear the cries of "Injustice' again down the road.

[sioux7>5]

I can see it now. About 10 years from now, UND will have changed the name and the tribes will be bitching that know one knows their history anymore.

[ScottM]

I can see it now. About 10 years from now, UND will have changed the name and the tribes will be bitching that know one knows their history anymore.

Who?

[Oxbow6]

I can see it now. About 10 years from now, UND will have changed the name and the tribes will be bitching that know one knows their history anymore.

People in this state know what their "history" has been over the past few decades and unfortunately that is what will be remembered...not their honorable "heritage" of years ago.

[Godsmack]

I am a supporter of the Sioux nickname, always will be but I came to the realization a few weeks ago that perhaps now is the time that we give up the name. First off, we would be letting it go on OUR terms. Second, even if we reached some sort of agreement with the tribes, who's to say they won't change their minds in the future-we will always have the threat of them changing their minds in the future creating an environment of instability. Ask anyone who knows and they will tell you that the tribes have a poor reputation for stability when it comes to tribal governance; the leadership changes frequently, they oftentimes are crooked, and they don't necessarily look out for the interests of their member constituents. I think the settlement unfairly put this decision in the hands of the tribes-to their defense, if we pursue an agreement with them and it gets shot down, this will make the tribes look bad. I think the school should simply not pursue an agreement with them and move on with finding a new nick name (not Flickertails).

I also do not support "buying them off" by giving them a portion of the school's royalties for things such as coffee cups, jerseys, pucks, etc. This is just bribary and, over time, who's to say they don't reneg on the agreemement and come back asking for "more" and eventually turning it into blackmail? I think the University, alums, and community can come up with a new name and mascot and the fans will still be there supporting them full heartedly. My loyalty to the school will not diminsh one bit if the school changes names.

[mksioux]

I was not optimistic about reaching an agreement with the tribes, but I didn't realize the name change would come this quickly. It appears the NDUS is pretty much conceding defeat.

[url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=57268

[Dak]

I was not optimistic about reaching an agreement with the tribes, but I didn't realize the name change would come this quickly. It appears the NDUS is pretty much conceding defeat.

[url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=57268

[ScottM]

It looks they'll take one stab at negotiations, and if it fails, the nickname is done.

I'm sure they'll give one good try for appearance's sake, and to check out the slots at the casino, and then trot out some timeline to retire the Sioux name/logo, form a committee to think of a "kinder, gentler" replacement and then pat themselves on the ass over how well they handled the transition.

[Sioux-cia]

The majority, if not all, the NA programs at UND are federally funded. The University of North Dakota will be the one who loses if it does away with the programs because, I believe, they get a share of that money.

As I said in another thread, we don't have Native American programs so we can keep/use the Fighting Sioux name and logo. We have them because our institution is in North Dakota and it's the right thing to do. We offer Native American programs so NAs can get an education, so they can shed the cloak of 'victim', so they can move forward. Hopefully, they go back to their reservations and help fight alcoholism, promote health and education, and stop the vicious cycle of 'us against them'.

I think we have to look at this issue in it's entierty. We know that the majority of NA's do not object to the name. The current tribal leaders are the one's shoving their personal view points down the throats of those they are suppose to represent. This thread is sounding very racist to this member. '...stop the vicious cycle of 'us against them'. This goes both ways folks.

[larsensa]

I have an idea. I am going to change my name to Fighting Sioux. UND has my permission to use my name!

I happen to look exactly like our logo. People mistake me for it all the time when I am out in the public. They say, aren't you UND's Fighting Sioux logo and I say no, I am larsensa. UND has my permission to use my face as the logo.

Problem solved everyone. Jeez, why did we waste all this time trying to convince the tribes? This was easy to solve!

[PCM]

Rome fell from within.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that Joel Maturi's gonna give us some lovin' now.

[PCM]

This goes both ways folks.

I agree.