Negotiated Settlement?

[siouxforeverbaby]

Stenehjem's contact info.

AG's office

please, nothing illegal.

[Siouxfan_inDenver]

Stenehjem's contact info.

AG's office

please, nothing illegal.

Yeah lets not get ridiculous or angry...just yet. Keep it all in perspective. LETS GO SIOUX! LETS GO SIOUX! LETS GO SIOUX!!!!

[Dak]

This is a very disappointing outcome after all of the money, time and energy that was spent fighting this.

However, I'm attempting to remain somewhat optimistic (which is actually pretty hard to do in this case) that when they agreed to settle this, there is something more behind it than what we yet know.

In my current job, I deal with settlements on somewhat of a regular basis. My experience of settlements is that there is some type of a compromise for the parties involved. Obviously no one gets everything they wanted, but they get something. There's usually a reason and some logic behind every settlement that brings some type of benefit to parties involved.

It seems on the face of it, that UND got squat out of the deal, other than some supposed moratorium for three years unless we get tribal approval. I think many would agree that this seems like a farce at best. Oh... I forgot how the NC00 is supposed to say, "They're really not hostile and abusive..."

However; I find it hard to believe that this is all UND gets out of the settlement.

I'm hoping against hope that there has been some work, behind what we are seeing that is setting up UND to keep the Fighting Sioux name; thus ultimately agreeing to this settlement.

As it's been mentioned earlier on this thread, "Let's wait and see..." I really think that's what we have to do. It's certainly hard to do but it needs to be done.

Of course, I'm not suprised by much any more and after we see the real aspect of this settlement (beyond the early reports, etc.) if this is indeed all UND gets out of the deal, then it would just reinforce my belief that the fans, tradition, etc. still don't mean s&!t when it comes to the almighty $.

It remains to be seen... Until the day they actually, officially retire the Fighting Sioux name... I truly remain a fan of the FIGHTNG SIOUX!

The Fighting Sioux name will live forever.

But how many times do we have to hear about this. Every time there is another new tribal government do we sweat? What if we piss them of just once? UND is now a at the mercy of the Tribal governments. We no longer control our own path.... It could change at a moments notice. I say we take all the power back!

This shouldn't have happened in the first place.

[puck]

Before we all get bent out of shape about this settlement let's analyze what would have happened had we won this suit in court.

I'm not up on all the details but I believe this wouldn't have saved the Fighting Sioux nickname necessarily, but would have invalidated the current policy as being improperly instituted.

While the NCAA might have instituted this policy around its normal procedures, it is still possible that after losing the lawsuit they would have gone back to the drawing board, dotted their i's and crossed their t's and we'd be right back here at a later date, bemoaning the probable need to change the nickname (or at least suffer the consequences of continued use).

This settlement gets the NCAA to "take back" the hostile and abusive charge, and some manageable changes to REA if necessary. It also buys some time to work out agreements with the tribes. I'm also concerned with the variable winds that can blow, but let's see if any agreements can be reached, and what those agreements might be before we doom them to failure.

I hate to see the nickname change, but unfortunately I can see too many scenarios where it comes to that regardless of the outcome in court. I'm hoping that the powers-that-be believe they can work something out.

If not, then we move on with our heads held high.

Stenhjem, Earl Strinden & Tim O'keefe were all on the radio this morning and all indicated that the state would win the lawsuit on the improper actions of the NCAA committee. But -- the NCAA has already proposed ammended bylaws that they anticipated would be approved in January that would give the exec committee the authority that they lacked the first time around. The NCAA would then pass essentially the same rule lawfully within its own new bylaws. All three were very confident that by getting the NCAA out of ND business, progress can be made on this issue.

[MafiaMan]

The Fighting Sioux name will live forever.

Puhlease. Just like the Brooklyn Dodgers, the Baltimore Colts, the St Louis football Cardinals, and the Grand Forks Central Redskins...give it five years after a name-change and the only people remembering the Fighting Sioux will be the old-schoolers like us. I don't hear many St Louis Rams fans demanding that the Cardinals nickname be restored and also think folks in Baltimore are more likely to think of Ray Lewis and the Ravens winning the Super Bowl as the "glory days" of Baltimore football as opposed to Johnny Unitas.

[Dak]

Puhlease. Just like the Brooklyn Dodgers, the Baltimore Colts, the St Louis football Cardinals, and the Grand Forks Central Redskins...give it five years after a name-change and the only people remembering the Fighting Sioux will be the old-schoolers like us.

Sad but true.

[Goon]

Puhlease. Just like the Brooklyn Dodgers, the Baltimore Colts, the St Louis football Cardinals, and the Grand Forks Central Redskins...give it five years after a name-change and the only people remembering the Fighting Sioux will be the old-schoolers like us. I don't hear many St Louis Rams fans demanding that the Cardinals nickname be restored and also think folks in Baltimore are more likely to think of Ray Lewis and the Ravens winning the Super Bowl as the "glory days" of Baltimore football as opposed to Johnny Unitas.

"May the logo and the Fighting Sioux name live on forever!"

Ralph Engelstad - October 5, 2001

[Goon]

Stenhjem, Earl Strinden & Tim O'keefe were all on the radio this morning and all indicated that the state would win the lawsuit on the improper actions of the NCAA committee. But -- the NCAA has already proposed ammended bylaws that they anticipated would be approved in January that would give the exec committee the authority that they lacked the first time around. The NCAA would then pass essentially the same rule lawfully within its own new bylaws. All three were very confident that by getting the NCAA out of ND business, progress can be made on this issue.

Is this with or without a full membership vote of the executive council?

What about CMU and FSU?

[UND85]

Whatever happens I will wear my Sioux jersey and jacket to every event forever. Keep in mind everyone whatever happens we still have the best hockey team in the nation, a great football team, awesome basketball programs, and some other wonderful Sioux athletic teams to watch and cheer for. That will never change! GO SIOUX !

[MafiaMan]

"May the logo and the Fighting Sioux name live on forever!"

Ralph Engelstad - October 5, 2001

I'm not disagreeing with that wish, Goon, just pointing out facts. Dodgers fans became Mets fans, Cardinals fans became Rams fans, Colts fans became Ravens fans. If the University of North Dakota Fighting Scotsmen win the 2025 NCAA hockey title, will some fans still sit around saying "it would have been better if they were still called the Sioux."?

[UND85]

"Similar deals have been struck by the Florida State Seminoles and the Central Michigan Chippewas." Does anyone know what those deals were? Any chance we would be talking to those two schools and finding out how they did it?

[mikejm]

$$$

[Goon]

$$$

So how much money are we going to end up paying to keep the name.

I can see some kind of cash settlement coming to arena near you real soon.

I can't see any reason to take this settlement unless we had something in the work that hasn't been announced.

[larsensa]

Since it seems the lawyers have wussed out on fighting the NCAA, it may be time to get a name that we DON"T NEED TO GET APPROVAL to use. It is getting old having UND bending over backwards all the time to kiss butt without any support from the tribes. If the Sioux aren't honored byUND using their name, then why do we want to honor them?

It is ridiculous that a University has to kiss butt to keep a school name. Seriously, this doesn't even really seem to be in the spirit of us being the Fighting Sioux. It is funny that Donors pay the university money to have their names put on buildings at UND but the Sioux tribes don't want their names put on for free!

I have been a Fighting Sioux fan all my life but I don't want the cheer to be "Hear Come Your Butt Kissing Fighting Sioux"! I don't think that has a very good ring to it.

I might take this back if the tribes change their minds and find honor now that they have some control over the future of their name being used by UND but lets not be butt kissers. Everything I just said in that sentence sounds weak. Maybe the time has come to move on....

[darell1976]

Puhlease. Just like the Brooklyn Dodgers, the Baltimore Colts, the St Louis football Cardinals, and the Grand Forks Central Redskins...give it five years after a name-change and the only people remembering the Fighting Sioux will be the old-schoolers like us. I don't hear many St Louis Rams fans demanding that the Cardinals nickname be restored and also think folks in Baltimore are more likely to think of Ray Lewis and the Ravens winning the Super Bowl as the "glory days" of Baltimore football as opposed to Johnny Unitas.

The way the Rams are playing they might as well be called the St. Louis Cardinals.

[Sioux]

Since it seems the lawyers have wussed out on fighting the NCAA, it may be time to get a name that we DON"T NEED TO GET APPROVAL to use. It is getting old having UND bending over backwards all the time to kiss butt without any support from the tribes. If the Sioux aren't honored byUND using their name, then why do we want to honor them?

It is ridiculous that a University has to kiss butt to keep a school name. Seriously, this doesn't even really seem to be in the spirit of us being the Fighting Sioux. It is funny that Donors pay the university money to have their names put on buildings at UND but the Sioux tribes don't want their names put on for free!

I have been a Fighting Sioux fan all my life but I don't want the cheer to be "Hear Come Your Butt Kissing Fighting Sioux"! I don't think that has a very good ring to it.

I might take this back if the tribes change their minds and find honor now that they have some control over the future of their name being used by UND but lets not be butt kissers. Everything I just said in that sentence sounds weak. Maybe the time has come to move on....

i would not call it wussing out. the legal fees were already in the millions, believe it or not.

[MafiaMan]

Some Colts fans became Ravens fans, but some continue to cheer for the Colts.

Some? About 85,000 every Sunday afternoon. I'm sure the Baltimore Colts fan club exists somewhere though. You can find them in the Yellow Pages right next to "Hartford Whalers" and "Montreal Expos."

[MafiaMan]

Unfortunately for us, we won't have the Sioux anymore in Grand Forks or any other city if the name goes away. We would be worse off than the Colts fans. Their team merely moved from one location to another, ours would go away forever. We would be given a different team to replace them, but I for one would not be interested in supporting a different team.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree completely with this logic. We would be WORSE off than Colts fans because their team "merely moved" from one location to another? I wonder how many season ticket holders in Baltimore fly to Indianapolis each weekend to see their Colts play? Probably not many.

I'm a Fighting Sioux hockey fan forever. If the name change is imminent, so be it. I was, am, and always will be a Fighting Sioux fan. But if the name changes, my school is still in Grand Forks and the players still play hockey for the University of North Dakota. And when they come to town to play in the WCHA Final Five, I'll still be there to support them.

[dj_hoime]

FIGHTING SIOUX FOREVER!! LETS START PROTESTING!!!

SIOUX SIOUX SIOUX SIOUX SIOUX SIOUX

Never gonna change!

[The Whistler]

I did a blog post on it here. It's my opinion that we're worse off with this settlement than we would have been with losing the case.

[terbele]

In today's Chi Tribune

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...hi_tab01_layout

[jimdahl]

I did a blog post on it here. It's my opinion that we're worse off with this settlement than we would have been with losing the case.

I respectfully disagree with one part of your assessment. Once it subjected us to sanctions that would prevent post-season hosting, I don't think continuing to use the Sioux name would have been smart. From a hockey-centric perspective, as you said, no big deal. But it's hard to imagine that our basketball teams and football team could have experienced the success they have in the past decade if the playoffs always meant road games from round 1 onward.

[Sioux,CO]

With this agreement the name is gone in 3 years, because UND can't be at the mercy of two Sioux tribes within the state. While I wish the name would live forever, it is obvious now that it will be gone in 3 years. If there is anyone with a brain at the University they should just drop the name when the 3 years is up and then not adapt a new nickname. There is no rule with the NC$$ that you have to have a nickname, I'm guessing, so with no new nickname what will everyone call our sports teams? Just go back to the North Dakota jerseys in hockey and use the interlocking ND on all others. Problem solved. That will be the case until the Dakota in North Dakota becomes "hostile and abusive". I hate the PC world I now live in. When will this country start looking at the real problems in the world instead of spending millions to change a nickname?

I will never support a new nickname no matter what it will be. I will not support the Calvary, Blizzard, or whatever dumb name they come up with.

[Goon]

I'm not disagreeing with that wish, Goon, just pointing out facts. Dodgers fans became Mets fans, Cardinals fans became Rams fans, Colts fans became Ravens fans. If the University of North Dakota Fighting Scotsmen win the 2025 NCAA hockey title, will some fans still sit around saying "it would have been better if they were still called the Sioux."?

That's alright man. I am sure most of us feel as if the world has come down on our head.

[The Whistler]

I respectfully disagree with one part of your assessment. Once it subjected us to sanctions that would prevent post-season hosting, I don't think continuing to use the Sioux name would have been smart. From a hockey-centric perspective, as you said, no big deal. But it's hard to imagine that our basketball teams and football team could have experienced the success they have in the past decade if the playoffs always meant road games from round 1 onward.

That's not a bad point, but you could hold those events at the Alerus just fine under the NCAA regulations, right? I don't go to too many football games, but I think the only logo that might create a problem would be on the field.