GF Herald Editorial Page

[PartTime]

When I read Monday's GF Herald Editorial page, main topic "Don't bet on Division I for UND" I said to my wife..........."Written like a true NDSU grad/fan" Well, as it turns out (no surprise) I was right. The author, Jerome Hatlewick aka "kchats" is an frequent poster in bisonville.

www.bisonville.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158290953/105#105

It's not to hard to see that "some" NDSU faithful would like nothing more than for UND to fail in it's attempt to go DI. In my opinion, what this letter was intended to do, was to throw up a hurdle and try make trouble in the UND camp (so to speak) in it's move up and nothing more.

[Bison Dan]

When I read Monday's GF Herald Editorial page, main topic "Don't bet on Division I for UND" I said to my wife..........."Written like a true NDSU grad/fan" Well, as it turns out (no surprise) I was right. The author, Jerome Hatlewick aka "kchats" is an frequent poster in bisonville.

www.bisonville.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158290953/105#105

It's not to hard to see that "some" NDSU faithful would like nothing more than for UND to fail in it's attempt to go DI. In my opinion, what this letter was intended to do, was to throw up a hurdle and try make trouble in the UND camp (so to speak) in it's move up and nothing more.

Your probably right, but the fact is your president did list those two conditions. The main difference I see between NDSU and UND moving up is that NDSU's president was 100% behind the move and pushed for it. I don't think UND's president has his heart in it for the move.

[GeauxSioux]

Your probably right, but the fact is your president did list those two conditions. The main difference I see between NDSU and UND moving up is that NDSU's president was 100% behind the move and pushed for it. I don't think UND's president has his heart in it for the move.

Show me where these two conditions are placed in the way of UND moving from Division II to Division I.

http://www.theralph.com/new2/Press_Releases/06_Division1.htm

Beginning with 2007-2008, we will engage in an official NCAA ‘exploratory’ year. We will use this coming year, 2006-07, to develop a business plan and to begin building a financial foundation to support the move - both necessary to enhance the support base among all UND stakeholders,” said Kupchella.

...we need the upcoming year to address three principal points: (1) We need more support from stakeholder groups than was evident in the study. The report noted, however, that many in our stakeholder groups indicated that they needed more information about ‘how’ such a move might be financed and otherwise made successfully; (2) stakeholders agree that we need a clear direction about conference affiliation, and that there be at least a very high likelihood that there would be a conference or conferences receptive to UND; and (3), cost, which is a major factor. It would appear from the Task Force report that at a minimum we would need at least $2 million more per year than we now devote to athletics in order to move to Division I in an effective way. This would require some combination of an increased student fee and the building of an athletic program endowment.”

“Obviously, the number of sports we field and the conference we would join would be significant factors. The Task Force report pointed out that our athletic budget is already in the range of budgets for Division I institutions. Based on meetings with key stakeholder alumni groups, letterwinners and others, I believe we will be able to raise the funds sufficient to compete at the Division I level,” said Kupchella.

[jimdahl]

Wow -- that is sad. Some Bison fans (but not just one or two) are desperately trying to derail UND's reclassification by fabricating an "investigation" into UND's finances (no doubt with UND's best interests at heart ). They've been contacting all the local media and reporters to urge them to write this as an article, all of whom have told them to buzz off, so instead one submitted it as a letter to the editor.

It's pretty pathetic. The Bison fans who used to complain about some UND fans questioning their reclassification can officially step down off their high horses now that Bison fans are leading an organized effort to actually try to stop UND's reclassification.

[Gothmog]

Wow -- that is sad. Some Bison fans (but not just one or two) are desperately trying to derail UND's reclassification by fabricating an "investigation" into UND's finances (no doubt with UND's best interests at heart ). They've been contacting all the local media and reporters to urge them to write this as an article, all of whom have told them to buzz off, so instead one submitted it as a letter to the editor.

It's pretty pathetic. The Bison fans who used to complain about some UND fans questioning their reclassification can officially step down off their high horses now that Bison fans are leading an organized effort to actually try to stop UND's reclassification.

What goes around comes around.

[Bigdog42]

Your probably right, but the fact is your president did list those two conditions. The main difference I see between NDSU and UND moving up is that NDSU's president was 100% behind the move and pushed for it. I don't think UND's president has his heart in it for the move.

So, are Bison fans worried UND is going to be better than them again in the same Division? Attempts like this, by Jerome Hatlewick, just show how classless some NDSU fans are.

[PCM]

What goes around comes around.

Nah. It's more like: Once paranoid and delusional, always paranoid and delusional.

[redwing77]

What goes around comes around.

So you are saying that, when NDSU was reclassifying, some UND fans hurt your feelings and now you're trying to get back at us?

Nice to know that 5 year olds can get into college.

[Gothmog]

So you are saying that, when NDSU was reclassifying, some UND fans hurt your feelings and now you're trying to get back at us?

Nice to know that 5 year olds can get into college.

Oh, NDSU fans are being silly 5 year-olds when they treat UND exactly the same way UND fans treated NDSU just a couple years ago. Hmmm.....

[Bison Dan]

So you are saying that, when NDSU was reclassifying, some UND fans hurt your feelings and now you're trying to get back at us?

Nice to know that 5 year olds can get into college.

How dare you treat us like we did to you. Don't you know that we're UND?

[jimdahl]

Ummm... reread my post that seems to have launched this firestorm. No one is complaining that Bisonville is coming up with reasons they think the Sioux shouldn't reclassify -- it's quite expected, as the Bison have a particularly vested interest in the Sioux not moving up.

I said that those Bison fans who were so indignant that some UND fans dared question their reclassification can now get down off their high horses. You guys have only reinforced that.

[Sterling]

How dare you treat us like we did to you. Don't you know that we're UND?

I'm going to beat you up and steal your lunch money at recess!

[Gothmog]

Ummm... reread my post that seems to have launched this firestorm. No one is complaining that Bison fans are sitting around on Bisonville questioning whether the Sioux should reclassify -- it's quite expected, as the Bison have a particularly vested interest in the Sioux not moving up.

I said that those Bison fans who were so indignant that some UND fans dared question their reclassification can now get down off their high horses. You guys have only reinforced that.

Really???

I don't believe that NDSU has called any press conferences to denounce UND's move to DI. There's an enormous difference between the statements of a few delusional fans and those of the officials of a university. UND's official behavior towards NDSU in this matter has been nothing short of deplorable. You should expect a little blowback.

[LB#11]

How dare you treat us like we did to you. Don't you know that we're UND?

Did you not get the memo on the simple facts of why UND didn't play NDSU. Yes the rivalry is a great thing, but Dale Lennon's main objective is a National Championship. The way the system is setup, it made no sense to play that game. I think NDSU found that out of few years back with their big win over Montana...I don't think they made the Division II playoffs that year.

[jimdahl]

I don't believe that NDSU has called any press conferences to denounce UND's move to DI. There's an enormous difference between the statements of a few delusional fans and those of the officials of a university. UND's official behavior towards NDSU in this matter has been nothing short of deplorable. You should expect a little blowback.

No one was talking about NDSU leaders (who have already proven equally childish to UND's leaders with statements to the press about how they didn't want to play UND out of spite because we were mean to them).

You keep trying to lash out at UND about anything other than the point I'm making, which is actually about Bison fans -- those NDSU fans who used to feign indignance at UND fans questioning the Bison reclassification can now officially get down off their high horse. You guys have definitely at least equalled anything I saw out of Sioux fans.

[GeauxSioux]

Really???

I don't believe that NDSU has called any press conferences to denounce UND's move to DI. There's an enormous difference between the statements of a few delusional fans and those of the officials of a university. UND's official behavior towards NDSU in this matter has been nothing short of deplorable. You should expect a little blowback.

I think you're missing Jim's point.

[star2city]

When I read Monday's GF Herald Editorial page, main topic "Don't bet on Division I for UND" I said to my wife..........."Written like a true NDSU grad/fan" Well, as it turns out (no surprise) I was right. The author, Jerome Hatlewick aka "kchats" is an frequent poster in bisonville.

www.bisonville.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158290953/105#105

It's not to hard to see that "some" NDSU faithful would like nothing more than for UND to fail in it's attempt to go DI. In my opinion, what this letter was intended to do, was to throw up a hurdle and try make trouble in the UND camp (so to speak) in it's move up and nothing more.

That letter by Mr. Kchats pales in comparison to the letters to the editor that he wrote to at least two North Dakota papers (the Forum and Herald) back in July. How papers even publish such moronic ideas as in this one is in beyond belief:

In-Forum, Friday, July 21, 2006 - Jerome L. Hatlewick, P.E. Olathe, Kan.

I read a recent opinion article in the Grand Forks, (N.D.) Herald and am tired of reading the attacks on North Dakota State University President Joseph Chapman. These guys from Grand Forks just won

[Hammersmith]

If we could put the kindergarden-style fighting aside for a moment, they are a couple of parts of kchats letter that should be seriously addressed. Personally, I don't think the conference issue is one of them. NDSU fans don't have a leg to stand on, since Gene Taylor said almost the same thing before NDSU's move. Taylor had to backpedal then, just as Kupchella is doing now. What is troubling is the financial situation.

Using the IAC records:

FY03: even (no firm number was given)

FY04: -48k

FY05: RT avoided giving numbers at several meetings. Eventually given as -250k

FY06: -680k-700k (projected; final number never given)

FY07: -850k (projected; unconfirmed sources; we'll know more after the IAC minutes are posted)

We can't be concerned about this? At what magic number do these deficits become a problem? $1M? $1.5M? $2M? Let's face it: the UND athletic department is in a financial tailspin. DI is going to take $2M-$3M above and beyond the current budget. Where is it going to come from? How much is the student activity fee going to be raised? How much more can the FSC come up with? Is tuition going to increase to help pay for the move? Are academic funds going to be diverted? Of the four revenue sports, three are at, or near, capacity for their venues and both the Betty's and Alerus' capacities have recently been revised downward. When are we allowed to have this debate? After UND is committed and it's too late to turn back?

Some are saying that NDSU was in the same situation. I beg to differ. NDSU was not approaching $1M in the red. NDSU did not raise student fees. Teammakers was able to double their revenues to $1.5M. (To the best of our knowledge)Money was not diverted from academic programs. Arena capacities allowed large revenue growth without raising ticket prices. Attendace improved for all revenue sports(Yes, that includes basketball-no doubleheaders). Guarantee games filled in funding gaps in the later years of the reclassification. UND is 3+ years away from that revenue source.

This is not something that should be swept under the rug. Until we get some real answers, we need to keep asking the questions. Was it star2city or Sicatoka who kept saying "cost and conference"? Why the silence now? This is not an anti-UND rant. If these questions aren't answered, the move will fail and UND's athletic department will be thrown back 20 years. Look to Kupchella's previous job. NDSU won't have to beat UND on the field, UND will defeat itself in its own financial ledgers.

Maybe a DI move is in UND's best interests and maybe it's not. One thing is for sure: If the financial situation isn't stabilized prior to the move, the reclassification will be an unmitigated disaster that will cost a whole lot of people their jobs and damage UND for decades to come. Don't let that happen. Demand answers.

[Gothmog]

I think you're missing Jim's point.

I don't think so.

NDSU fans have a legitmate right to be indignant towards UND for its official behavior. The actions of a few fans does not change that.

[bincitysioux]

UND's official behavior towards NDSU in this matter has been nothing short of deplorable. You should expect a little blowback.

UND's official position was that competing against NDSU's teams with heavy scholarship advantages would not be beneficial to UND's student athletes. In 2003, when NDSU wanted to schedule fb games with, UND declined due to the negative playoff implications tied to playing out-of-division opponents. That was UND's official position. In retaliation, NDSU pulled the plug on baseball games that the two universities had agreed to play for multiple years after NDSU reclassified. Two years later, UND's athletic director proposed renewing the football rivalry. Gene Taylor's official position was quoted in the Forum and read "they've made they're bed, now they have to sleep in it." It is my opinion that NDSU's administration is the one that as behaved in a deplorable manner.

[Cratter]

Why would the Heraldo publish a piece that reports things as facts when they are far from it?

The editorial stated that UND had officially said they would never move to Division I without a conference (invite). Which has never been said.

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?sh...mp;#entry169093

Heres your answer:

UND is continuing to develop the Bronson Property and that will soon bring in $1 Million/year to the university, which will only increase in the future.

Guarantee money from football games

Increased student fees

Increased Alumni contributions / Endowment (didn't UND just receive a large donation?)

Frozen Four money not currently available as a D2 member

among other sources. No need to worry about us.

[Gothmog]

UND's official position was that competing against NDSU's teams with heavy scholarship advantages would not be beneficial to UND's student athletes. In 2003, when NDSU wanted to schedule fb games with, UND declined due to the negative playoff implications tied to playing out-of-division opponents. That was UND's official position. In retaliation, NDSU pulled the plug on baseball games that the two universities had agreed to play for multiple years after NDSU reclassified. Two years later, UND's athletic director proposed renewing the football rivalry. Gene Taylor's official position was quoted in the Forum and read "they've made they're bed, now they have to sleep in it." It is my opinion that NDSU's administration is the one that as behaved in a deplorable manner.

You're under the mistaken impression that I was referring to UND's refusal to play NDSU.

[PCM]

If the financial situation isn't stabilized prior to the move, the reclassification will be an unmitigated disaster that will cost a whole lot of people their jobs and damage UND for decades to come. Don't let that happen. Demand answers.

If you think Kupchella would allow that to happen to UND, then you know absolutely nothing about the man.

[star2city]

This is not something that should be swept under the rug.

How could something be under the rug when it is plainly published by the IAC? NDSU chooses not to open their numbers to public scrutiny is such a way. Why not? It is well known that UND women's hockey scholarships are, in large part, funded by tuition waivers, which is a major reason why there is a deficit on paper, yet athletic bills continue to be paid. On an institutional bases, UND waives substantially less in tuition than NDSU. Where's the outrage in Bisonville about that? Should all the out-of-state posters on Siouxsports be complaining in e-mails to the NDUS about the tuition waiver policies at NDSU?

Was it star2city or Sicatoka who kept saying "cost and conference"? Why the silence now?

I was outspoken on both those issues. I also happen to believe that Kupchella and Buning have a lot more information on both of those issues than any member of the public and certainly me. Are their big donors coming? Will sports be dropped? Kupchella response to DI backers always seemed to be: "show me the money." IMO, someone has, and more.

NDSU won't have to beat UND on the field, UND will defeat itself in its own financial ledgers.

Whether you chose to believe it or not, UND is much better set up for a DI move than NDSU was from a facility standpoint and a media outlet. NDSU's been talking about a BSA upgrade for years now, and it still hasn't happened. In spite of the "disaster" that is UND athletic financials, there seems to be an lot of confidence within the department of building a practice facility and even a new outdoor stadium.

Maybe a DI move is in UND's best interests and maybe it's not. One thing is for sure: If the financial situation isn't stabilized prior to the move, the reclassification will be an unmitigated disaster that will cost a whole lot of people their jobs and damage UND for decades to come. Don't let that happen. Demand answers.

Funny. I said the same thing about NDSU's moves because they were never forthcoming about their financial issues and (still) have major facility upgrades to do. When Taylor opens the NDSU athletic books, you'll have the right to bellyache. Right now, you are just whining.

[The Sicatoka]

I'm still here asking cost and conference. And I've asked the right people in the UND adminstrative structure.

The financial plan committee is working on the details. I'll let them work. They're due with data in December.

The political wing of UND administration is working on the conference issues. I'll let them work too until at least December.

Folks, you need to re-read what PCM posted here:

If you think Kupchella would allow that to happen to UND, then you know absolutely nothing about the man.

Kupchella saw DI done wrong in Missouri. That won't happen under his watch.