Fullerton Still Talking Big Sky Expansion

[MplsBison]

Actually, I don't see the Gateway adding anyone right away if only WKY leaves. Perhaps they try to get Drake to upgrade their football or wait for Witchia St to add football.

[Hammersmith]

I agree with MplsBison on this one. I don't think the Gateway will add anyone in a kneejerk response if WKU bolts. I suspect they'll wait at least one or two years before making a decision. By then, UND (and USD?) will be DI and the GWFC will still be (relatively)stable if the xDSU's get invited.

Also, Wichita St is on the short list of DI schools thinking hard about adding football. With their MVC ties, they're the frontrunners after Drake if Drake wants to stay non-scholie.

Star, I don't read that quote the same way you do. I see it as a commish covering his bets no matter what DU decides. How does it look for a member of a DI-A conference to move to a I-AA conference because it's a step UP in competition and recognition. This way, he can make it seem like it's the Sun Belt's idea and save a little face if DU moves. DU will be in the Sun Belt for as long as it wants. I do believe that if BSC adds a member, DU is their first choice, but it's far from a certainty and I don't think it improves UND's chances by any appreciable degree.

edit: I know that Sun Belt vs. Big Sky comment might open a can of worms, but really, Sun Belt is one bad DI-A conference.

[MplsBison]

It depends if the Big Sky is looking for a football member or a non football member.

If 9 football and 10 bball is the perfect combination for the Big Sky, then I think Denver is their 1st choice.

But I also think UVSC would fit easily into that catogory and that might be a more realistic choice.

If they want a football member then SUU is the only option for now (how pissed would they be if UVSC got into the Big Sky and they didn't!).

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[star2city]

I agree with MplsBison on this one. I don't think the Gateway will add anyone in a kneejerk response if WKU bolts. I suspect they'll wait at least one or two years before making a decision. By then, UND (and USD?) will be DI and the GWFC will still be (relatively)stable if the xDSU's get invited.

WKU will announce IA football after this season. There will be one, maybe two more years of WKU in the Gateway. The Gateway will want at least another school in as soon as WKU leaves. Six conference games would make scheduling too difficult.

Also, Wichita St is on the short list of DI schools thinking hard about adding football.

Not anymore: Mayor abandons crusade to bring back Wichita State football

With their MVC ties, they're the frontrunners after Drake if Drake wants to stay non-scholie.

Every single Gateway school is public. The four private schools in the MVC can not afford scholarship football.

Star, I don't read that quote the same way you do. I see it as a commish covering his bets no matter what DU decides. How does it look for a member of a DI-A conference to move to a I-AA conference because it's a step UP in competition and recognition. This way, he can make it seem like it's the Sun Belt's idea and save a little face if DU moves. DU will be in the Sun Belt for as long as it wants. I do believe that if BSC adds a member, DU is their first choice, but it's far from a certainty and I don't think it improves UND's chances by any appreciable degree.

Obviously, we disagee. DU could have moved to the BSC at the same time as when UNC was accepted. DU chose not to move then, because the BSC school profile was not satisfactory. DU will move to the BSC once the school profile has been upgraded to its satisfaction. It will be a win-win-win-win situation for everyone, including UND.

[MplsBison]

6 conference games is probably not ideal, but I don't think having 8 conference games just to have 8 conference games is worth the extra travel and what the conference members will see as "downgraded" members.

I think they'll wait for something like Grand Valley St if they're looking for a move up.

Yes, it would be very expensive for Drake to add 63 scholarships and all the extra money needed to compete in the Gateway. They'd have to add all the extra women's scholarships etc.

But it isn't impossible. Not with their rich alumni base.

[Gothmog]

I would suspect the distribution of UND alums is similar. It always seems to me that it is the students and alums from MN that have the toughest time understanding that the majority of alums (outside of MN and ND) reside in the Western 1/2 of the US. North Dakota is much more of a Western state than it is Midwestern.

Couldn't disagree more about ND being a "Western" state. North Dakota, at least the Eastern part - where most of its residents live, has very, very strong ties to the city of Minneapolis/St Paul and the state of Minnesota. Stronger beyond compare than its ties to any other state or city.

[star2city]

Thunderbird's The Word: British Columbia's bid to join NCAA gets hockey people talking

A conference commissioner, WCHA's McLeod, speaks on UBC's NCAA bid:

The most natural geographic fit is in the Western Collegiate Hockey Association, but according to WCHA commissioner Bruce McLeod, the league isn't rushing to expand.

"The mood in the WCHA right now is not for expansion," McLeod said. "I think the group as a whole is very comfortable where we're at right now, but that doesn't preclude any general talks about expansion or movement or anything like that at all."

The prospect of UBC joining the NCAA is cause to sit up and take notice.

"Something like this makes us put on our thinking caps a little bit," McLeod said.

[MplsBison]

Assuming U of BC goes DII with DI hockey, would the WCHA or even the CCHA accept them right away? Or would they be forced to go to a lower league like the CHA?

(*EDIT Aparantly the CHA is going to disband? Not sure but http://www.hockeyrefs.com/intheheadlines/04122006.htm claims that one of the coaches says the conference is disbanding.)

[redwing77]

Assuming U of BC goes DII with DI hockey, would the WCHA or even the CCHA accept them right away? Or would they be forced to go to a lower league like the CHA?

(*EDIT Aparantly the CHA is going to disband? Not sure but http://www.hockeyrefs.com/intheheadlines/04122006.htm claims that one of the coaches says the conference is disbanding.)

The CHA isn't disbanding. They got an exemption on the autobid.

As for where UBC goes, I'd suspect the CHA would take them. I don't see the WCHA taking on a school like UBC. If anything, I'd think (My opinion here) that, if the schools would desire it, the WCHA would take schools like Bemidji or UNO before they'd take UBC.

[MplsBison]

Thanks for the info.

Curious, what will the CHA do if:

Huntsville drops or Bemidji moves their men's team to the WCHA where their women's team is?

I could even see Wayne State in the CCHA and both Robert Morris and Niagra in either the ECACHL, HE, or the AH.

Seems like a league of teams waiting to be accepted to other conferences.

[PCM]

Curious, what will the CHA do if:

Huntsville drops or Bemidji moves their men's team to the WCHA where their women's team is?

Bemidji can't do that without the WCHA's permission. So far, the WCHA has no compelling reason to take BSU. If the CHA disbanded and BSU applied for membership to the WCHA, the league would almost have to take another team to keep the league's schedule balanced.

[Smoggy]

If the Canadian schools are allowed to join, the possibility is there for the Alaska schools to be able to form a new more western based conference. Might give them a chance to finally get to the playoffs and save some money. Who knows, but maybe a Cali school would finally jump to DI. Just throwing something out there.

[MplsBison]

What about Penn State? Or would that be more of a CCHA or even HE deal?

[Smoggy]

What about Penn State? Or would that be more of a CCHA or even HE deal?

That could bring up its own potential nightmare of forcing the Big Ten schools to form together since there'd be six of them with DI hockey.

[star2city]

Interesting info on NDSU/SDSU to the Gateway Conference Bison Media Blog. At my lunch break today, I took a peak at that site and found someone making a sarcastic posting under my screen name. (My prophetic reputation in Bisonville must be greater than I realized. ) As I stated in my realS2C comment, I do believe NDSU/SDSU will likely be added to the Gateway when Western Kentucky goes IA.

However, in response, Steve Hallstrom gave this quote:

I know that several in UND admin believe that they will be in the Big Sky as soon as they are D1 playoff eligible, with or without NDSU. They might know something, or they might just be that confident of their program and it's value to a league.

Hallstrom's followup comment seems to have left the bison nation in an uproar. How could UND ever be invited to the BSC when NDSU, even with Chapman pulling all possible strings, couldn't manage it?

As stated previously, the combination of the FSSN for media coverage of all the Dakotas as well as the Ralph, UND's championship tradition in Division I, and its academics all make UND an outstanding and compelling addition to the Big Sky Conference that separate it from the rest of the Dakota schools. I would hope, and actually expect, UND to be offered membership prior to our DI playoff eligibility.

Still expect sometime early next decade, that UND, Denver, and UBC will all be part of the Big Sky in a likely ten member league.

[bincitysioux]

Interesting info on NDSU/SDSU to the Gateway Conference Bison Media Blog. At my lunch break today, I took a peak at that site and found someone making a sarcastic posting under my screen name. (My prophetic reputation in Bisonville must be greater than I realized. ) As I stated in my realS2C comment, I do believe NDSU/SDSU will likely be added to the Gateway when Western Kentucky goes IA.

However, in response, Steve Hallstrom gave this quote:

Hallstrom's followup comment seems to have left the bison nation in an uproar. How could UND ever be invited to the BSC when NDSU, even with Chapman pulling all possible strings, couldn't manage it?

As stated previously, the combination of the FSSN for media coverage of all the Dakotas as well as the Ralph, UND's championship tradition in Division I, and its academics all make UND an outstanding and compelling addition to the Big Sky Conference that separate it from the rest of the Dakota schools. I would hope, and actually expect, UND to be offered membership prior to our DI playoff eligibility.

Still expect sometime early next decade, that UND, Denver, and UBC will all be part of the Big Sky in a likely ten member league.

The following is also a brilliant observation by Mr. Hallstrom from the afore-mentioned blog.

I have suspected for a while that if NDSU had a chance to join an established 1-AA league with an auto bid that they would be very interested.

[bincitysioux]

Also from the Bison Blog (I should really read the whole thing before I post )

Only one of the Gate schools is also a Midcon school................

Glad to see he finally found that out! The day that NDSU was officially invited into the Mid-Con, he said on WDAY's morning radio show that most Mid-Con schools play football in the Gateway!

[Bison Dan]

Insightful bincity - but I think UND will be in independent hell for many years before any conference comes calling. NDSU was there for 3 years, what's your plan if a conference invite doesn't happen for 5 -7 years. It can get pretty expensive living without a conference. Good Luck!

[The Sicatoka]

All of this speculating is just so much full, even the (should be) professionals have joined in and are on the campaign trail.

[nd1sufan]

Hallstrom's followup comment seems to have left the bison nation in an uproar. How could UND ever be invited to the BSC when NDSU, even with Chapman pulling all possible strings, couldn't manage it?

As stated previously, the combination of the FSSN for media coverage of all the Dakotas as well as the Ralph, UND's championship tradition in Division I, and its academics all make UND an outstanding and compelling addition to the Big Sky Conference that separate it from the rest of the Dakota schools. I would hope, and actually expect, UND to be offered membership prior to our DI playoff eligibility.

Still expect sometime early next decade, that UND, Denver, and UBC will all be part of the Big Sky in a likely ten member league.

No, no uproar here. Actually now that the Gateway seems to be more of a realistic possibility, NDSU is in the best situation for them. I road trip to UNI, West Ill. or S ILL. sounds a lot better than any BSC trip. Plus, the basketball coaches are happier with the Mid Con than with the BSC. The kids on the basketball and football teams come from the Midwest or South or east of here. They have no one to speak of from the West.

I really don't care if UND gets in teh BSC or not.

But I do think it is wishful thinking about the UND - Big Sky scenario you think will happen. Do you really think schools like N. Arizona, Portland State and Sac State are going to overlook the travel and all of their other concerns because UND has won a few Hockey championships and if we take them we might be able to be seen on TV on a Saturday night in Crookston. MN.

The west coast schools in that league are concerned about one thing only, and that is location. They don't even realize there is any college hockey.

[Riverman]

Do you really think schools like N. Arizona, Portland State and Sac State are going to overlook the travel and all of their other concerns because UND has won a few Hockey championships and if we take them we might be able to be seen on TV on a Saturday night in Crookston. MN.

I thought FSSN was seen in South Dakota and Montana?? Isn't Montana in the BSC??

[bincitysioux]

I thought FSSN was seen in South Dakota and Montana?? Isn't Montana in the BSC??

Don't know if it reaches Montana. Maybe just across the border. Whether it does or not, is of little consequence, as the Big Sky already has the Montana market. What is important is that UND's media contracts, both television and radio, covers at minimum three states and two Canadian provinces that the Big Sky doesn't have access to now.

[star2city]

No, no uproar here. Actually now that the Gateway seems to be more of a realistic possibility, NDSU is in the best situation for them. I road trip to UNI, West Ill. or S ILL. sounds a lot better than any BSC trip. Plus, the basketball coaches are happier with the Mid Con than with the BSC. The kids on the basketball and football teams come from the Midwest or South or east of here. They have no one to speak of from the West.

The Gateway is a great IAA conference. But didn't Bohl really want the Big Sky? Didn't most Bison fans want the Big Sky? With a Gateway schedule, a UND game, a IA game, and a DII game, you won't get any games against Montana schools.

As far as recruiting, the Gateway might help with kids from Illinois or Wisconsin. But the ability to travel throughout the west has an appeal that others may not resist. UND's alumni base and future students lie more in the west, strategically for UND, the Big Sky is much preferred.

I really don't care if UND gets in teh BSC or not.

But I do think it is wishful thinking about the UND - Big Sky scenario you think will happen. Do you really think schools like N. Arizona, Portland State and Sac State are going to overlook the travel and all of their other concerns because UND has won a few Hockey championships and if we take them we might be able to be seen on TV on a Saturday night in Crookston. MN.

UND leadership is not moving to DI based on wishful thinking. In order for this move to even happen, UND had to have had a firm handshake agreement that they would be accepted into a conference. As Hallstrom stated in his blog, UND's faculty athletic rep is confident we are going to the BSC.

Schools like N Arizona, Portland State, and Sac St respond to $ signs. UND and the reach of its FSSN in combination with the Altitude/Big SKy network will bring more dollars to the Big Sky coffers, more than offsetting travel costs. That is what matters. NDSU and SDSU would have made the BSC poorer. UNC, with all its deficiencies in other departments, was able to deliver an enhanced media contract, so it was added.

The west coast schools in that league are concerned about one thing only, and that is location. They don't even realize there is any college hockey.

And location (travel costs) tranlates into dollars. They care about dollars.

As far as hockey, certainly no other Big Sky school plays the sport. But Northern Arizona formerly did field a DI team, and only dropped it because of the lack of a conference. Portland State is often considered an ideal school at which a DI program could flourish and help differentiate its programs from Oregon and OSU.

[Gothmog]

The Gateway is a great IAA conference. But didn't Bohl really want the Big Sky? Didn't most Bison fans want the Big Sky? With a Gateway schedule, a UND game, a IA game, and a DII game, you won't get any games against Montana schools.

As far as recruiting, the Gateway might help with kids from Illinois or Wisconsin. But the ability to travel throughout the west has an appeal that others may not resist. UND's alumni base and future students lie more in the west, strategically for UND, the Big Sky is much preferred.

UND leadership is not moving to DI based on wishful thinking. In order for this move to even happen, UND had to have had a firm handshake agreement that they would be accepted into a conference. As Hallstrom stated in his blog, UND's faculty athletic rep is confident we are going to the BSC.

Schools like N Arizona, Portland State, and Sac St respond to $ signs. UND and the reach of its FSSN in combination with the Altitude/Big SKy network will bring more dollars to the Big Sky coffers, more than offsetting travel costs. That is what matters. NDSU and SDSU would have made the BSC poorer. UNC, with all its deficiencies in other departments, was able to deliver an enhanced media contract, so it was added.

And location (travel costs) tranlates into dollars. They care about dollars.

As far as hockey, certainly no other Big Sky school plays the sport. But Northern Arizona formerly did field a DI team, and only dropped it because of the lack of a conference. Portland State is often considered an ideal school at which a DI program could flourish and help differentiate its programs from Oregon and OSU.

You do understand how foolish you will appear when none of this nonsense turns out to be true. You actually expect us to believe that the FSSN is apple of the Big Sky's eye??? As you said it all does come down to money - any school with a few bucks could duplicate the FSSN in short order. Where the money comes from is the MARKET not the facilities. UND's potential TV market is tiny, folks in Sacramento and Portland will laugh at it.

[bincitysioux]

You do understand how foolish you will appear when none of this nonsense turns out to be true. You actually expect us to believe that the FSSN is apple of the Big Sky's eye??? As you said it all does come down to money - any school with a few bucks could duplicate the FSSN in short order. Where the money comes from is the MARKET not the facilities. UND's potential TV market is tiny, folks in Sacramento and Portland will laugh at it.

The FSSN isn't ESPN of course, and yes it is currently primarily for hockey. But a successful I-AA football program in GF could warrant telecasts of all of its games, just like Montana & Montana St. do. Throw in 4-5 basketball games a year, and it sweetens the pot. The FSSN could potentially offer television for 10-12 additionaly Big Sky football games per year, across three states and into Canada. NDSU nor SDSU never brought such a proposition to the table. If it was so easy to duplicate, NDSU would have done it by now.