Official thread of D-I budgets / expenses

[DI IN FARGO]

and the fact that the bison in fargo are not nearly as popular as the sioux in grand forks. there's a lot of people who generally "dont care" about ndsu. grand forks is a town that rallies around UND's sports... fargo is just a town with a college that some people support.

You have to be kidding? You are just joking right? First of all FM area has 3 colleges and NDSU by far has overwhelming support. The other two are just sideshows that a ffew like to follow but you are truly in the dark if you think NDSU isn't the big dog in Fargo or ND for that matter.

[GeauxSioux]

Actually I think he was talking about the music scence.

We got both types ya know, Country and Western.

I love the Blue Brothers. Good old Bob's Country Bunker.

[Bigdog42]

The other two are just sideshows that a few like to follow but you are truly in the dark if you think NDSU isn't the big dog in Fargo or ND for that matter.

now you are stating NDSU is the big dog in the state?

OK HOMER

You are right about everything.

NDSU men and women will win the Big Dance in their 1st year eligible!

NDSU will win the DIAA championship in their 1st year eligble!

Yeah, I trying to think of some of your next posts and I don't think I am too far off!

A little over board but not in your mind, I am sure of that!

[LB#11]

and the fact that the bison in fargo are not nearly as popular as the sioux in grand forks. there's a lot of people who generally "dont care" about ndsu. grand forks is a town that rallies around UND's sports... fargo is just a town with a college that some people support.

Don't forget the support the Sioux get here in Fargo. There are Sioux fans all over the Fargo-Moorhead area, I don't think there are too many Bison fans in the Grand Forks-East Grand Forks area.

[The Sicatoka]

Why must everything be about race to you, Sicatoka?

There are types of diversity other than racial.

Yup, like Sex and Age, Relationship, Households by Type, Housing Occupancy, Housing Tenure.

PCM got it right:

From a true outsider's POV, the only differences between the cities is population, seventy-five miles, and a Hooter's.

[southpaw]

You have to be kidding? You are just joking right? First of all FM area has 3 colleges and NDSU by far has overwhelming support. The other two are just sideshows that a ffew like to follow but you are truly in the dark if you think NDSU isn't the big dog in Fargo or ND for that matter.

of course ndsu is the most popular school in fargo... i never said it wasn't. but by no means does it have the support of the community like UND does. of course ndsu is the big dog in fargo, but with so many other things pulling from it, it isn't the "greatest thing ever" like sioux athletics are. it's not a slam on ndsu, its the truth. and your idea of what the big dog in the state is laughable.

[Riverman]

Yes isn't it nice to have a choice. There's no diversity in gf and that's why it's stagnate.

Here's another boring stagnate college town.

Just a random college town

And yet another.

Another boring little town with a college

[Shawn-O]

...but you are truly in the dark if you think NDSU isn't the big dog in Fargo or ND for that matter.

I guess ClearChannel didn't see it that way.

[bincitysioux]

......you are truly in the dark if you think NDSU isn't the big dog in Fargo or ND for that matter.

Bwah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[DI IN FARGO]

now you are stating NDSU is the big dog in the state?

OK HOMER

You are right about everything.

NDSU men and women will win the Big Dance in their 1st year eligible!

NDSU will win the DIAA championship in their 1st year eligble!

Yeah, I trying to think of some of your next posts and I don't think I am too far off!

A little over board but not in your mind, I am sure of that!

For a guy who goes by the name of Big Dog you sure have little man syndrome. Thats about all your post deserves in the way of a response.

[DI IN FARGO]

of course ndsu is the most popular school in fargo... i never said it wasn't. but by no means does it have the support of the community like UND does. of course ndsu is the big dog in fargo, but with so many other things pulling from it, it isn't the "greatest thing ever" like sioux athletics are. it's not a slam on ndsu, its the truth. and your idea of what the big dog in the state is laughable.

Where do you get your facts? Sioux athletic the "greatest thing ever"? Wow now big dog should be responding to your post not mine. As far as laughable as some others have put it I think it applies to that comment. As far as sue grads in Fargo of course there isn't anything in GF to keep them there because as funny as it is Fargo offers them opportunities that are non existent in GF. I guess that would qualify as stagnant.

[Cratter]

As far as sue grads in Fargo of course there isn't anything in GF to keep them there because as funny as it is Fargo offers them opportunities that are non existent in GF. I guess that would qualify as stagnant.

You have it backwards, Fargo students go to UND because of the academia reputation (see below) not found in Fargo, then conversely move back to their "hometown." Hence all those UND fans/grads currently in Fargo. I and others on this board have first hand knowledge of this.

[Bison Dan]

Did you see the sales tax report for the first quarter of 2006. Of the 4 largest cities gf brings up the rear with only 3.3 % increase. Not even keeping up with inflation. Like I said stagnant.

Fargo 413.1 6.1%

Bismark 246 13.7%

gf 180 3.3%

Minot 138 8.9%

[The Sicatoka]

What in blue heaven does GF sales tax revenue have to do with UND's Athletic budget?

I mean, I thought anti-UND fans always said the economy in Las Vegas is all that mattered to UND Athletic revenues.

And no one has answered my question about how "payoff" on athletic facilities are accounted in the various budgeting procedures at various schools.

[Bison Dan]

What in blue heaven does GF sales tax revenue have to do with UND's Athletic budget?

I mean, I thought anti-UND fans always said the economy in Las Vegas is all that mattered to UND Athletic revenues.

And no one has answered my question about how "payoff" on athletic facilities are accounted in the various budgeting procedures at various schools.

I can't remember when the state of ND financed an athletic facility at NDSU. They have been mostly financed by private monies. I think the smaller schools get their facilities payed for by the state. ie Minot State bb arena.

[The Sicatoka]

I can't remember when the state of ND financed an athletic facility at NDSU. They have been mostly financed by private monies. I think the smaller schools get their facilities payed for by the state. ie Minot State bb arena.

I thought part of the BSA at NDSU was state financed back in seventy-ought. No matter.

I'm more interested in how the financing of bonds for athletic facilities are accounted at various places. In athletics budget directly? In university facilities overall? Through an outside foundation?

[IowaBison]

I thought part of the BSA at NDSU was state financed back in seventy-ought. No matter.

I'm more interested in how the financing of bonds for athletic facilities are accounted at various places. In athletics budget directly? In university facilities overall? Through an outside foundation?

NDSU has been paying cash for its facilities as well.

The money for the BSA renovation is in hand.

Otherwise, the State has to approve a bonding measure.

[Twinsfan]

I think it would take some investigation in both athletic budgets to determine if payments for construction of facilities is included. My guess is that the upcoming BSA project will not inflate next years NDSU athletic budget by the $8+ million. The money is being raised by the NDSU development foundation and I'm guessing that the payments for construction wont be reported in the budget. Things like rent payments for the Alerus and the Fargodome would of course be in the budgets of both. I have read about one time expenses in the recent UND budget but I'm not sure what those were.

Comparing budgets of the two is a tough call anyway because of the sports one school has that the other does not. And looking at the current UND budget with travel to NCC opponents compared to the NDSU budget with travel all over the country is not realistic either. Then those breakdowns that we have seen posted on the web have a category which contains revenue and expenses that are not assigned to any specific sport. Each school in the country probably has a different way of accounting for money that ends up in that category. So even when you try to compare the football or basketball amounts, they might not contain exactly the same information from campus to campus.

[jimdahl]

A hard-to-come-by $2 million

Lots of talk of the SUs budgets, for those of us who clamor for such info:

The jump to Division I was a little bit more than $2 million for North Dakota State University. Before its reclassification in 2003-2004, the athletics budget was $6.2 million. Last year's budget was $8.8 million, while this year's is expected to be $9.5 million, according to NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor.

One of the biggest chunks has come from the university, which has increased its support from $1 million before the move to $2 million. Funding from Teammakers, the NDSU athletics booster organization, has likewise doubled, from $750,000 to $1.5 million.

While there is not a specific student athletic fee, the amount from student fees allocated to athletics has gone up from $650,000 to $900,000. Corporate sponsorships have likewise increased, and a new revenue stream, guarantees from playing Division I powerhouse schools, will add almost $600,000 to the coffers, with $450,000 from basketball and $140,000 from football.

South Dakota State also added about $2 million to its budget in its first three years, from a variety of sources.

"We were about $4.2 million when we made the move," said Fred Oien, SDSU athletic director. "Corporate sponsorships tripled and donations have gone up threefold, too."

SDSU will get about $400,000 from guarantees. While its student fees have not increased, the number of students at the university has, resulting in a total of $1.5 million of the athletic department revenue. The university has started an endowment as well, and is halfway toward its $20 million goal. It's able to use 5 percent of that endowment - $500,000 this year - for operating expenses.

[IowaBison]

NDSU's five year plan, which is nearly complete, was to get to $10 million per year.

Interesting that the Herald uses the $10 million budget number which according to the task force report included about $3 million in one time expenses.

I'd imagine that UND's budget will likely have to be at least $2 million more than NDSU's with men's and women's hockey.

Depending on who's numbers you trust UND will have to double it's athletic budget?

[NanoBison]

So with the numbers in hand, it seems to me, that if UND was to successfully move up to DI they would have to match NDSU's athletic budget, plus have an additional $2,000,000 for men's and women's hockey (roughly), that would mean UND would have to come up with hefty chump change, according to these figure :

NDSU's Final Budget at the End of the Transition : $10 million/year

UND's Current ( Real - Minus that ONE time $3,000,000 item ) Budget : $7 million/year

UND's Final Budget at the End of the Transition : $12 million/year (an additional $2 million for Hockey)

That's $5 million more dollars a year. A bit more than what the Great and Mighty Herald suggested. Maybe UND is going to have to drop some sports to make room for an increased Football budget, Basketball budget and maintaining their hockey.

[bincitysioux]

I think it is interesting that everyone seems to say that USD is in no position to make this move because their athletic budget is only around $4 million. But apparently that is about where SDSU was at when they jumped up.

[The Sicatoka]

UND's Current ( Real - Minus that ONE time $3,000,000 item ) Budget : $7 million/year

From UND's DI Report:

For the 2004-05 year, UND reported expenses of about $10 million dollars to support Athletics. This included direct facilities and maintenance costs of almost $2 million, and about $1.1 million for sports camps and one time obligations. This results in recurring expenses of about $6.9 million.

Your numbers are close, but not quite right on.

Secondly, your assumption is the same that others seem to fall in to:

The right time for NDSU to move may not be the right time for UND to move.

The right budget for NDSU may not be the right budget for UND.

[DI IN FARGO]

I think it is interesting that everyone seems to say that USD is in no position to make this move because their athletic budget is only around $4 million. But apparently that is about where SDSU was at when they jumped up.

USD is in a much bigger budget shortfall then SDSU was at the time SDSU decided to make the move. The comparison isn't even worth talking about as its a true apples to oranges comparison.

[GeauxSioux]

How do the Ralph and the Betty figure into our budget figures? From what I understand there was a one-time large payment of $2M on the Betty in the fiscal year ending June 30, 2005 which is the last year that figures are publically available. Doesn't the REA compex itself have a $10M dollar budget? THis isn't even calculcated into the budget from what I have read.

And if $2M were a one time payment on the Betty and UND ended up in the black (according to the aff maligned OPE data) wouldn't that mean that there was a lot more black ink than what was thought or was there $2M in revenue allocated specifically for the Betty?

Does anyone know what the athletic budget is for 2006-2007. I see that Nano compares NDSU's final "projected" budget at the end of transition to UND's budget from 2004-2005.

NDSU's Final Budget at the End of the Transition : $10 million/year

UND's Current ( Real - Minus that ONE time $3,000,000 item ) Budget : $7 million/year

As always, none of us have all the information for any of these comparisons.