Facilities Master Plan

[MplsBison]

They even answered my question about their (on the surface, absurd) prediction of 5% inflation:

In other words, they're covering their asses so UND can't come back 10 years from now and say "you told it us would only be 15 million a year!".

[star2city]

In other words, they're covering their asses so UND can't come back 10 years from now and say "you told it us would only be 15 million a year!".

Exactly.

The Carr Report for UND differs substantially in context from what Carr delivered to NDSU and SDSU because the questions were different. NDSU and SDSU asked Carr: "Can we go DI?" Carr responded: yes, but you'll need a conference (which they didn't have) and finances. For UND, the decision to go DI has already been made. UND's tasked the Carr Associates with: "How can we be successful at DI". The answers are different and much more expensive.

For Carr to state that UND facilities need major facility upgrades, when Carr's earlier report had given SDSU (except in the case of Frost arena, or NDSU in the case of the BSA) a passable grade is laughable unless it is taken in context of what question was asked. I also believe that many of the responses that Carr gave lead to an answer that UND leadership or the UND Foundation can follow through on.

For example, the talk of a stand-alone basketball arena may very well already be grounded in reality if a well-heeled donor already has intentions of delivering on such a gift (with his name on the arena).

[The Sicatoka]

... they're covering their asses so UND can't come back 10 years from now and say "you told it us would only be 15 million a year!".

No, they're doing a conservative analysis and planning for worst cases. That's not dumb.

The $18 million in the last year of transition, using their 5% annual inflation, is about $14.1 million in today's dollars. Given the roughly $10 million dollar budget of today, that's about a $4 million increase. Kupchella, in 2002, and without deep study like this said, "We estimate (conservatively) that we would need $2-3 million in additional revenue each year to do as well as we do now if we played across the board at the Division I level."

[The Sicatoka]

From jimdahl's link:

The report puts a $26 million price tag on necessary athletics facilities building and renovation projects in the near future, ...

From the Attachments file of UND's DI Report (from spring of 2006), page 1, under "Needs":

Track (indoor) - $8 million

Track (outdoor) - $1 million

Football practice - $ 16 million

Soccer - $1 million.

Add that up and amazingly you get .... $26 million.

From the same page of the same report, under "Wants":

Football Arena upgrades - $1.5 million

Baseball - $2.5 million

Softball - $1.5 million

Tennis - $5 million

Golf - $2.5 million

Admin Facilities - $3 million

Swimming - $10 million

Add that up and it's ... $26 million.

.... with an additional $26 million worth of projects described as

[aff]

The part that everybody seems to be ignoring is about how the arrangements with the Englestead and Alerus are making it difficult for UND to succeed, as was stated in the newscast. I think that may be more of the reason that Carr and Associates were complaining about the facilities, and I guess it must be a problem since nobody wants to talk about it here...

[jimdahl]

The part that everybody seems to be ignoring is about how the arrangements with the Englestead and Alerus are making it difficult for UND to succeed, as was stated in the newscast. I think that may be more of the reason that Carr and Associates were complaining about the facilities, and I guess it must be a problem since nobody wants to talk about it here...

I agree that it's a problem to be playing in a football arena we don't own (Alerus). In defense of Sioux boosters, It has been all over the Dakota Student, UND administration began just this year talking about future UND-owned stadiums, and it's been discussed on this board. Seeing the Vikings' & Gophers' problems makes it clear, no matter how great the deal in the non-owned facility seems now, limitations from the lack of control become a huge liability as things change and we cannot react. We need the ability to charge for parking and get to keep the money, or build new attraction X and get to keep the money, and so forth...

The real reason it's not the hottest topic in this discussion is that there are much more pressing needs. The Alerus situation may not be perfect, but the things listed as "needs" and even "wants" above are probably higher on the list.

I disagree on REA, though, and I think Carr errs in lumping it in with Alerus. REA isn't a multi-use facility seeking independent profit, it's primary mission is to benefit UND (despite some of the power conflict between REA and the athletics staff). UND will eventually own REA, outright (unless we change the name, first, and they implode it).

[bincitysioux]

UND will eventually own REA, outright (unless we change the name, first, and they implode it).

[bincitysioux]

........... The Carr Report is saying that the Betty is undersized for BB. It wasn't built for BB games. It was built for practice. Engelstad Arena will add basketball/volleyball courts

During one of the Fighting Sioux Coaches Shows towards the end of this season, I even heard Roebuck state that there is a good chance that the Betty in a few years will be only a volleyball facility and basketball practice facility.

[The Walrus]

I disagree on REA, though, and I think Carr errs in lumping it in with Alerus. REA isn't a multi-use facility seeking independent profit, it's primary mission is to benefit UND (despite some of the power conflict between REA and the athletics staff). UND will eventually own REA, outright (unless we change the name, first, and they implode it).

Where has all the money gone? It seems that since it's inception REA has taken over almost all marketing, ticket sales, concessions for UND and our Athletic Budgets for all most all sports have been cut in the last 5 years. I feel they have been more efficent and effective, even tho they seem to be quite a bit less fan friendly. Why hasn't our Athletic Budget's flourished with this Donated Addition....?

[82SiouxGuy]

According to the information I could find on the OPE Institution Security Statistics web site, which is not easy to decipher, UND Athletics had approximately $7.7 million in revenues in the school year 2000-2001. I believe that is the year before the Ralph and the Alerus Center opened. Last year they had revenues of approximately $10.4 million. One of the years in between, I believe it was 2003-2004, revenues peaked over $12 million. Revenues exceeded expenses for every year I looked at. I did not have time to try to weed through all of the reports, but it looks like the budgets since the new facilities were introduced are about 25-30% higher than before they opened. Other than the 1 peak year, they have been fairly consistent with a little growth. So the new buildings did help the Athletic Department grow.

My guess is that any budget problems the last couple of years were because expenses, like travel expenses, have grown faster than planned and faster than revenues. The problems were in place when Buning came into the job. They seem to have that under control this year. And they probably have a decent handle on that problem if they are planning 5% inflation increases in the coming years. But that doesn't mean that there isn't more money that the Department can get out of both buildings. I am sure that they are looking at that for the move up. Here is the web site if you would like to search the numbers.

[DamStrait]

Where has all the money gone? It seems that since it's inception REA has taken over almost all marketing, ticket sales, concessions for UND and our Athletic Budgets for all most all sports have been cut in the last 5 years. I feel they have been more efficent and effective, even tho they seem to be quite a bit less fan friendly. Why hasn't our Athletic Budget's flourished with this Donated Addition....?

Can you do anything other than bitch? Sorry, but in case you weren't aware, it is getting really, really, really old.

[NanoBison]

Can you do anything other than bitch? Sorry, but in case you weren't aware, it is getting really, really, really old.

So is using replies like this to address valid concerns.

[DamStrait]

So is using replies like this to address valid concerns.

You have a point, but it is quite rich coming from the likes of you. I know The Walrus is a big booster and fan of UND sports, I just think he takes his disappointment with Buning getting the job he wanted Bollinger to have too far. I think it clouds his judgement and he needs to be more open to the idea that Buning has good points and has done good things. I also think that the 'forensic accountants' have previously been adequately rebutted, whether they choose to admit it or not.

[The Walrus]

I know The Walrus is a *big booster* and fan of UND sports, I just think he takes his disappointment with Buning getting the job he wanted Bollinger to have too far. I think it clouds his judgement and he needs to be more open to the idea that Buning has good points and has done good things.

I challenge you to tell me where I have said negative things about Tom Bunning...? We happen to disagree on various issues. I have never posted anything on this Board that I have not conversed to him directly, we still remain friends.

I do not hide behind a hidden screen name like most.... Everyone knows you I am!

* Why does my weight have to be a issue..?

Have a nice Day!

[DamStrait]

I challenge you to tell me where I have said negative things about Tom Bunning...? We happen to disagree on various issues. I have never posted anything on this Board that I have not conversed to him directly, we still remain friends.

I do not hide behind a hidden screen name like most.... Everyone knows you I am!

* Why does my weight have to be a issue..?

Have a nice Day!

That is a fair point: Unlike a lot of us (certainly myself included), you are not an anonymous poster, and that at least makes you willing to really take the heat for what you express here. And I agree you have not directly attacked Buning, it's just seemingly whispered innuendo, which is what I probably find the most irritating, but that's just one of my many, many pushable buttons.

I don't live in GF, so maybe I don't see enough to come to your same conclusions. I will say that from the outside, things really seem to be moving in the right direction. Some examples: I suspect UND waited too long (by about 20 years) to go DI. I think the writing has been on the wall for at least that long and the more I think about it, the more certain I am. Another thing: The accessiblity to Sioux sports in the last couple of years has really, really improved. The satellite signal is far, far more reliable, as is the audio and video webcasts. I know, I know, that isn't saying much, as it was really quite embarrassing in the not too distant past, and really it had no where to go but up. I am also quite impressed with such things as "Fan Apprecitation Night" even though I was not able to attend. I could go on and on, but that is what comes immediately to mind, and you get the idea.

I am also unbelievably impressed with Dave Hakstol and Dale Lennon (yes, I know that neither was hired by Buning), even though at the time I was not convinced the decision to hire Hak was made with the proper scrutiny. I was even more doubtful after the series at UAA his first year, to put it very mildly. The rest is history as they say. As a side note, there is a nasty rumor that Hak doesn't smile (at least convincingly). I was in Columbus at the frozen four and was among a contingent of Sioux fans wishing the boys well outside their hotel as they boarded the bus to head to the rink for the championship game against Denver. Hak was the last one out of the hotel and was the only one without his 'game face' on. He was genuinely smiling, shaking hands and thanking fans for being there to support the team. He made everyone there feel like $1,000,000,000 (inflation).

Anyway, I can't begin to imagine the kind of pressure an AD has to endure, having every decision second and third guessed. I think Tom Buning is doing nothing other than what he thinks is best for the University of North Dakota. Honest people with integrity may not agree with his decisions, but they are unquestionably his to make and he will undoubtedly suffer the consequences should they prove to be wrong. In my opinion anyway, he has earned the benefit of doubt.

Anyway Walrus, thanks for the civil response and right back at you: Have a nice day!

[Cratter]

That new parking ramp (and another later across the street) sure is conveniently located near a football stadium.

[The Sicatoka]

Some light reading for you all (courtesy the Dakota Student):

Carr:

http://media.www.dakotastudent.com/media/s...e-2877171.shtml

Indoor Training Facility:

http://media.www.dakotastudent.com/media/s...n-2877188.shtml

[The Sicatoka]

That new parking ramp (and another later across the street) sure is conveniently located near a football stadium.

That's nice for the spring game each year, eh?

[star2city]

Some light reading for you all (courtesy the Dakota Student):

Carr:

http://media.www.dakotastudent.com/media/s...e-2877171.shtml

Indoor Training Facility:

http://media.www.dakotastudent.com/media/s...n-2877188.shtml

Help on the way tomorrow?

UND Foundation to announce major gift

[GeauxSioux]

Help on the way tomorrow?

UND Foundation to announce major gift

The plot thickens. This sounds like part of "The Vast Fighting Sioux Conspiracy".

[The Sicatoka]

This sounds like part of "The Vast Fighting Sioux Conspiracy".

" ... if you only knew ... "

Signed,

The Vast Fighting Sioux Conspiracy

" ... if you only knew ... "

[UND Fan]

Help on the way tomorrow?

UND Foundation to announce major gift

Any rumors floating around GF as to who the donor may be and for what purpose?

[aff]

Well, the newspaper says something about the gift, and then goes on to talk about research funding and the UND endowment, so..... my money would be on the gift having something to do with research funding and UND's endowment. Unless I'm giving the paper too much credit.

For sure, if this gift had something to do with athletics or athletic facilities, I would think that "Tom Buning, UND AD" or maybe "Steve Brekke, Director of Development, Athletics" would be present at the meeting. The director of "planned giving" being there tells me that somebody has probably named UND as a beneficiary in the event of their death, as long as I'm reading the title correctly.

[82SiouxGuy]

I think that you may be reading too much into the mentions of the endowment and research. Almost every announcement dealing with the Foundation or a large gift mentions the endowment and research because those are the main focus of the Foundation at this time. I do think that the AD would be part of the announcement if a large gift were going to the Athletic Department. I would expect that a good portion of a large gift would go into the endowment in some way, with a portion perhaps targeted to a specific project or function much like the large gift last fall.

[star2city]

With an architecural rendering of a new building for the College of Business and Public Administration already available on the internet (at JLG architects), this building needs to be matched with a major gift (not sure how much the CoBPA has already raised).

Gamble Hall at far left, Chandler Hall demolished.