Engelstad's Hitler birthday parties

[buckysieve]

Piper-

And you expect to be respected here after saying that?

That is downright disrespectful and you are a disgrace to the Gopher fan base, one that has had the finest coach in collegiate history in Herb Brooks, no less. I may not like the Gophers, but at least I respect them enough not to smear them for some alleged shenanigans.

Gosh, I can't even stand to look at this post. I'm just going to put you on ignore and pray you will go away. It's not even worth asking for an apology and deleting the post.

Oh, and by the way, before you question my qualifications, you should speak to my grandparents on my father's side. They're one of only 4 people total (3 on my grandmother's side and my grandfather stands alone) to have survived the holocaust out of a group of at least 10 family members each. I am HIGHLY offended. HIGHLY.

Please tell me that you're more offended by Englestad's disgusting behavior(throwing not one, but two Hitler birthday parties) than you are by Piper's comments.

[stafford_rules]

please tell me how you see nothing wrong in calling him a Nazi?. How the hell would you know if he celebrates Hitlers b-day? youre just looking for an arguement arent you?

[Siouxmama]

please tell me how you see nothing wrong in calling him a Nazi?. How the hell would you know if he celebrates Hitlers b-day? youre just looking for an arguement arent you?

Ummm...you better know what you are talking about before you jump into this.

[AZSIOUX]

Ummm...you better know what you are talking about before you jump into this.

there is some history you need to read up on stafford rules,

buckysieve, what the hell brought you into this anyways?? why in the hell would you stick up for that tool piper anyays, ust because he roots for the same team as you? why dont you just enlighten us with some good hockey posts......come on bucky.......dont act like that fool piper.

[Siouxdonyms]

Please tell me that you're more offended by Englestad's disgusting behavior(throwing not one, but two Hitler birthday parties) than you are by Piper's comments.

Who? I don't think there is such a person on this board anymore. How about we return to the topic of the thread?

[AZSIOUX]

Who? I don't think there is such a person on this board anymore. How about we return to the topic of the thread?

hell, i tried already about 5 posts up

[stafford_rules]

there is some history you need to read up on stafford rules,

buckysieve, what the hell brought you into this anyways?? why in the hell would you stick up for that tool piper anyays, ust because he roots for the same team as you? why dont you just enlighten us with some good hockey posts......come on bucky.......dont act like that fool piper.

i have been known to do that... im going to leave the convo for a bit so i can sort a few things ut before i get myself in trouble...

[siouxhater]

im sure hoping so. it would be very nice if he stepped up. (i did read up a bit)

Didn't like what you found, did you. I'm very surprised by the reactions on here to Piper's comments. Sioux fans hear Nazi comments like this on a regular basis and it usually doesn't get them this riled up. If only Sioux fans would have gotten this upset and worked up over Ralph's actions as they did over one comment on a message board they probably wouldn't see this brought up nearly as often.

[AZSIOUX]

Didn't like what you found, did you. I'm very surprised by the reactions on here to Piper's comments. Sioux fans hear Nazi comments like this on a regular basis and it usually doesn't get them this riled up. If only Sioux fans would have gotten this upset and worked up over Ralph's actions as they did over one comment on a message board they probably wouldn't see this brought up nearly as often.

another troll pops out of the ground.........sioux hater..........do you have any comments on our roster for next season?? thanks

[stafford_rules]

another troll pops out of the ground.........sioux hater..........do you have any comments on our roster for next season?? thanks

i dont think we should ask that

[buckysieve]

there is some history you need to read up on stafford rules,

buckysieve, what the hell brought you into this anyways?? why in the hell would you stick up for that tool piper anyays, ust because he roots for the same team as you? why dont you just enlighten us with some good hockey posts......come on bucky.......dont act like that fool piper.

For the record, I'm not sticking up for Piper. But I have to tell you that I would like to see at least some Sioux fans stop defending Englestad. I've heard a lot of Sioux fans say that he simply made a mistake and he apologized for it so let's move on. For most people it's not that easy.

It takes weeks to plan an elaborate party like the one(s) he threw. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and then he did it again for crying out loud. Apologizing doesn't change a thing. It just seems like Sioux fans are more offended by people calling him a nazi then they are by his actions and that's not right.

[Shawn-O]

For the record, I'm not sticking up for Piper. But I have to tell you that I would like to see at least some Sioux fans stop defending Englestad. I've heard a lot of Sioux fans say that he simply made a mistake and he apologized for it so let's move on. For most people it's not that easy.

It takes weeks to plan an elaborate party like the one(s) he threw. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and then he did it again for crying out loud. Apologizing doesn't change a thing. It just seems like Sioux fans are more offended by people calling him a nazi then they are by his actions and that's not right.

Know your audience. I highly doubt anyone here will engage you in this discussion. Take this crap to GPL where it belongs.

[Siouxmama]

For the record, I'm not sticking up for Piper. But I have to tell you that I would like to see at least some Sioux fans stop defending Englestad. I've heard a lot of Sioux fans say that he simply made a mistake and he apologized for it so let's move on. For most people it's not that easy.

It takes weeks to plan an elaborate party like the one(s) he threw. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and then he did it again for crying out loud. Apologizing doesn't change a thing. It just seems like Sioux fans are more offended by people calling him a nazi then they are by his actions and that's not right.

As you said...lets move on. Dont know of many people, other than Hitler and his buddies that deserve to be called nazis.

[PCM]

For the record, I'm not sticking up for Piper. But I have to tell you that I would like to see at least some Sioux fans stop defending Englestad. I've heard a lot of Sioux fans say that he simply made a mistake and he apologized for it so let's move on. For most people it's not that easy.

It takes weeks to plan an elaborate party like the one(s) he threw. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and then he did it again for crying out loud. Apologizing doesn't change a thing. It just seems like Sioux fans are more offended by people calling him a nazi then they are by his actions and that's not right.

If you want to get into Engelstad's history, take it to another thread in either the Sioux name or community forums and I'll be happy to discuss it with you. In short, you don't know what you're talking about and dragging Engelstad's name into this thread is pointless.

[Goon]

If you want to get into Engelstad's history, take it to another thread in either the Sioux name or community forums and I'll be happy to discuss it with you. In short, you don't know what you're talking about and dragging Engelstad's name into this thread is pointless.

I am not so sure we can fault him he is just spewing the Goofer fan/Mpls company line.

It all boils down to Minnesota HAD one of the better arena in the WCHA until Ralph came along and took that honor away from them. Now, they are second fiddle to the Sioux. Its jealousy.

[redwing77]

For the record, I'm not sticking up for Piper. But I have to tell you that I would like to see at least some Sioux fans stop defending Englestad. I've heard a lot of Sioux fans say that he simply made a mistake and he apologized for it so let's move on. For most people it's not that easy.

It takes weeks to plan an elaborate party like the one(s) he threw. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and then he did it again for crying out loud. Apologizing doesn't change a thing. It just seems like Sioux fans are more offended by people calling him a nazi then they are by his actions and that's not right.

And, for the record, how does who a man is dictate how good or bad money is? I don't like Pat Buchanon, but if he donated $110 million to UND, I'd be proud to know he cares about UND.

He held two Hitler parties? Hmm.... Didn't know about that. Knew about one... And apologizing does mean something. What was the context of the idea he held at the time he thought it out? Was it serious or a joke? Was it a joke that got serious and that's why he apologized? There's a lot we don't know.

Oh, there is something the FBI found out that was mentioned a little while back... I don't know, you wouldn't like it because it favored Englestad.

Englestad collected Nazi memorabilia and stuff like Hitler's car. Puleeeaze. Collecting Nazi stuff is FAR different than calling your opponents Nazis. My childhood friend's father had a genuine WWII German machine gun. I suppose he's a Nazi too?

Making mistakes doesn't make you a bad person. No one died in what Englestad allegedly did. But it is quite amusing how what Englestad did somehow relates to the $110 million dollars he gave to UND to do whatever they want with it. Whether UND chose to name it after him or not, I don't know.

But

A: All likenesses to UND and the Nazis, even by way of Englestad HAS TO STOP NOW or you can start your own message board and call us Nazis all you want. I will get offended and report any poster who disagrees with this. I am sick and tired of this useless and baseless argument.

B: This has entirely nothing to do with the top at hand. So, WHY THE F BRING IT UP! I don't know how much longer this thread will be open so it may not make a difference.

[Slap Shot]

Apparently Sioux fans have forgotten where their season ended in 2002 and 2003. The Sioux can't beat the Gophers in their own Nazi palace so they have to brag about another team doing it for them. Very pathetic for a so called proud fanbase.

wtf? I am going to repeat here what I posted at gpl.com: http://www.gopherpucklive.com/viewtopic.ph...r=asc&start=100

And can people please get off the, "Engelstad's a Nazi" trip already? It's a stupid and childish argument....isn't there enough hockey related and good-natured material to focus on than Engelstad's history? imho it's a bush-league topic and better suited for Husky fans.

I removed some tongue-in-cheek jabs at you guys in hopes that my main point - that the Nazi references are unnecessary and have no place in these forums - would stick out for any non-Sioux fan here that agrees with Piper.

[buckysieve]

He held two Hitler parties? Hmm.... Didn't know about that. Knew about one...

Making mistakes doesn't make you a bad person. No one died in what Englestad allegedly did.

Yes, it was two parties, one in 1986 and another in 1988. Google Englestad and Hitler and you'll find some articles about these parties that will make you sick. They describe these parties in detail and after reading them I have no problem calling this man a racist. One of the details you'll read about talks about the Imperial Palace printing bumper stickers that read "Hitler was right". It's simply unimaginable that someone could do this which would make you think maybe he really didn't understand what he was doing. You could accept his apology and move on. But then he did it again two years later? Are you kidding me? That clearly shows what kind of person Ralph was.

And you're right, making mistakes doesn't make you a bad person. But throwing a Hitler birthday party that offended a lot of people and then doing it again two years later does. If you're offended by Pipers comments then you should be ten times more offended by the fact that your arena is named after him.

I'm serious, google "Englestad throws Hitler birthday party" and read those articles. If you dare to continue to defend Ralph after that then I'm the one who will be offended. One piece of advice though. Have a paper bag near you or make sure you're close to a bathroom while reading these articles because it's tough to stomach.

If I get banned from this site for this post that's fine. It's so backwards that Sioux fans get offended by people calling him a nazi instead of being offended themselves by his actions.

[SIOUXELEVENS]

Buckysieve i did just what you said about googling and didn't find much new evidence except for some Jewish groups trying to blackmail Engelstad if he didn't donate to their charities. The man was far from perfect but also not the monster your trying to betray him as. So don't go away mad just go away and bat your eyes at Hammy and listen to the garbage that gets spewed over there on Garbage Puke Live. ( One last thing the articles said he had a bumper sticker not that he printed them)

[jimdahl]

Moderator note -- Discussion moved here from a thread in the "hockey" forum. Some messages may now be slightly out of context (e.g. those saying this conversation has no place in this thread), but this is probably still an improvement over the old organization.

[redwing77]

wtf? I am going to repeat here what I posted at gpl.com: http://www.gopherpucklive.com/viewtopic.ph...r=asc&start=100

I removed some tongue-in-cheek jabs at you guys in hopes that my main point - that the Nazi references are unnecessary and have no place in these forums - would stick out for any non-Sioux fan here that agrees with Piper.

Ha. If only it were that simple. buckysieve is just arguing up a different branch of the same PC tree. "The guy did some stupid and offensive things so therefore we should change the name of the arena or just throw the $110 million back in his dead face!"

Seriously, the guy may have been a racist, he may not have been a racist. The man was eccentric to say the least. HOWEVER, how does that diminish the fact that UND has a donor that has donated well over $110 million to the University? Character be damned, it was a very fine gesture by the man. It's like I said the first time I heard this argument:

Don't like it? Ok, pony up the $110 million dollar tab yourself, give it to UND and maybe we'll change the name to whatever you want. If you don't have the money to match Ralph's donation, then I guess you'll just have to live with it.

So, buckysieve, you can send your $110 million dollars to this website and then we'll talk. One penny less than $110 million dollars and you can forget it.

[Sioux-cia]

I doubt that the recipients of the 2000 wheel chairs Ralph donated to North Dakota citizens were returned because of Ralph's bad taste in party themes. So bucky, are they Nazi lovers because they kept the WC's? Are the citizens of Thief River Falls Nazi lovers because they accepted a 10 million dollar hockey arena from Ralph? Are the recipients of the hundreds of millions of dollars of charitable contributions from Ralph and Betty Nazi lovers. bucky if you could see past your gopher sniffing nose, you would know that the Engelstad's have QUIETLY donated those hundreds of millions of dollars with NO FANFARE. They didn't do it so the like's of you or me would say, "Wow! Looky at what Ralph and Betty are doing!" They did it because they care(ed) about people and communities in need. OK, I admit that the REA is another thing entirely. But so friggin' what!!! We have the finest college and possibly professional hockey arena in the world!!

As far as I'm concerned, what Ralph did in his private life was his private life. What he did with his contributions as noted above speaks a lot louder to me.

So take your 'Nazi loving' judgemental crap to your home where it belongs.

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2002_4t...gelstadBIO.html

Edited June 7, 2006 by Sioux-cia

[ScottM]

Ya know, Mods/Admin, I really see no place for more regurgitated ad hominum attacks on a dead person on this board. Perhaps instead of moving this thread, you should have linked to USCHO.

Frankly, the next person who "Godwins" a thread should be banned w/o warning. There's no place for that kind of shiat, except on USCHO, GPL, MySpace and other teenie hangouts.

[jimdahl]

Ya know, Mods/Admin, I really see no place for more regurgitated ad hominum attacks on a dead person on this board. Perhaps instead of moving this thread, you should have linked to USCHO.

Frankly, the next person who "Godwins" a thread should be banned w/o warning. There's no place for that kind of shiat, except on USCHO, GPL, MySpace and other teenie hangouts.

Original post (note member status)

Our response

Place for further discussion of policy regarding such incidents

[PCM]

It's simply unimaginable that someone could do this which would make you think maybe he really didn't understand what he was doing. You could accept his apology and move on. But then he did it again two years later? Are you kidding me? That clearly shows what kind of person Ralph was.

No, it clearly shows that your reading comprehension sucks. Engelstad publicly apologized for both the parties and admitted that they were stupid and insensitive. He paid a big fine. For the rest of his life, he never made the same mistake again. Please get your facts straight.

I'm serious, google "Englestad throws Hitler birthday party" and read those articles.

I just love it when sanctamonious people like like you attempt to lecture Sioux fans as if they hadn't heard any of this before. Please spare us. Most of us have heard this garbage repeated over and over.

Anyone can say anything. Just because you read something about Engelstad on the Internet or even in the New York Times doesn't make it true. The misinformation and misconceptions floating around about Ralph Engelstad boggle the mind.

If you don't mind, I'll rely on what the FBI's investigation revealed about this alleged "Nazi sympathizer."

The FBI opened an investigation of late Imperial Palace owner Ralph Engelstad over his fascination with Adolf Hitler and Nazi memorabilia, bureau documents obtained by the Review-Journal show.

Over a four-year period in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the bureau examined concerns Engelstad had "political leanings toward the extreme right wing in Nazism as opposed to simply being interested from a historical basis."

The inquiry, which detailed his multimillion dollar collection of Nazi-era items and private celebrations of Hitler's birthday at the hotel, failed to produce any "solid evidence" Engelstad was a Nazi or had "such beliefs."

As I've said many times before, context is everything. What's almost alway missing from the stories and "news" articles about Engelstad's Hitler birthday parties is the background information about how and why they came about. That's not to excuse them, but it does help to know the entire story.

I only met Ralph once in my life, but I've talked with people who knew him well. They tell me that he had an irreverant and somewhat crude sense of humor. Have you considered the possibility that what he thought was funny among his personal friends might be viewed as offensive by the outside world?

In his office, the man had a World War II German bust of Hitler that he used as a stand for his golf cap. Does that sound like someone who admired and respected Hitler?

Can you tell me why someone with an affinity for Nazis bought the papers of U.S. Gen. George Patton -- one of the greatest Nazi exterminators of all time -- for $1.45 million and donated them to UND's Chester Fritz Library? Why did the alleged Nazi lover have in his collection a car once owned by Josef Stalin? Does that mean that we can accuse Ralph of being a communist as well?

I'm not saying that Engelstad was an angel or that he didn't deserve some of the criticism that he brought upon himself. He certainly did. However, he in no way deserves the labels of "Nazi" or "racist" that you and others so casually toss about.