Early outs

[siouxnami]

'03 Both of Woogers "hits of the game" (at the John) were given to David Hale

'04 again both of Woogers "hits of the game" (at the John) were given to David Hale

Your using Wooger to make a point.

[PHE]

It's obvious then that you have never met 'Hammy'.

Classic!

[buckysieve]

You are correct.....some of thie n coming's have some size to them, and are supposedly physical players, so hopefully this will help a little bit.

With out the Gophers being a little (or actually a lot) tougher next year, it will be difficult for them compete with the UND's and UW of the world next year.

The Gophers were 11 points better than the Sioux this past year and beat them 3 out of 4 games. The Gophers have lost two good players off the entire roster so far with Irmen and Potluny while the Sioux also have lost two good players with Smaby and Zajac but will soon be three with Stafford undoubtedly leaving. The Gophers also have a better recruiting class coming in next year(Johnson and Okposo being better than any Sioux recruit) and they also have two veterans coming back next year in Hirsch and Hagemo.

The Sioux will be great next year as always but the Gophers will not have a difficult time competing with them. If anything the Gophers will be a more complete team next year than this year because the defense will be much improved with adding Johnson and Hagemo and losing two average players in Harrington and Atherton.

[brianvf]

The Gophers were 11 points better than the Sioux this past year and beat them 3 out of 4 games.

And how did that help them toward the end of the season?

[larsensa]

I wonder if the Gophers will have anything that stops pucks from going past the pipes on their end of the rink next year?

[buckysieve]

And how did that help them toward the end of the season?

Obviously not at all. I wasn't trying to gloat about that fact, just using it to show that only losing two good players from that team indicates that the Gophers should be strong again next year.

[sagard]

'02 Both of Woogers "hits of the game" (at the John) were given to David Hale

'03 again both of Woogers "hits of the game" (at the John) were given to David Hale

Hits of the game are one thing. The systematic delivering of solid body checks at every opportunity is another. The '03-'04 and '04-'05 Sioux were outstanding at the latter.

I'm sure the Sioux probably claimed the "Hits of Game" this year as well. Unless Harrington or Irmen ran some one.

[buckysieve]

I wonder if the Gophers will have anything that stops pucks from going past the pipes on their end of the rink next year?

That is the big question. Last year the goaltending was actually pretty good the entire season until the very end. You don't go 20-5-3 and win the WCHA by six points with bad goaltending. Briggs was solid all year but he wasn't the same at the end. I know this gopher fan is counting on Frazee to step it up next year and be the goalie that EVERYONE thought he would be. After all, statistically he had a decent season. His gaa was around 2.5 and his save % was .910. Very similar to Parise's freshman stats.

[tnt]

The Gophers were 11 points better than the Sioux this past year and beat them 3 out of 4 games. The Gophers have lost two good players off the entire roster so far with Irmen and Potluny while the Sioux also have lost two good players with Smaby and Zajac but will soon be three with Stafford undoubtedly leaving. The Gophers also have a better recruiting class coming in next year(Johnson and Okposo being better than any Sioux recruit) and they also have two veterans coming back next year in Hirsch and Hagemo.

The Sioux will be great next year as always but the Gophers will not have a difficult time competing with them. If anything the Gophers will be a more complete team next year than this year because the defense will be much improved with adding Johnson and Hagemo and losing two average players in Harrington and Atherton.

The gophers have depended on Irmen and Potultny the past two years, almost to a fault. I don't recall many games the second half of the season where I didn't see one of their names heavily on the score sheet. It doesn't come as a big surprise that the gophers were eliminated in the playoffs the last two years when they don't score.

That said, maybe they depended too heavily on those two and now that they are gone it will force the others to step it up or be a second tier team.

I don't agree with those who think the Sioux will be able to handle the gophers easily next year. It is always a battle no matter who the teams have lost. It really all depends on who is lost the rest of the summer and the mindset of the players coming back. Duluth was picked to win the league a year ago and look where they ended up. I think if there is one thing that we learn on a year to year basis is that talent alone won't get you anywhere (see Jordan Parise's quote to confirm that).

Minnesota could do very well, but they need many players to step up and fill the gap from the loss of Potulny and Irmen. Heck, Potulnys second half may be the best second half ever for Minnesota according to Woog, and you just can't pick out one or two names to fill that scoring.

[buckysieve]

The gophers have depended on Irmen and Potultny the past two years, almost to a fault. I don't recall many games the second half of the season where I didn't see one of their names heavily on the score sheet. It doesn't come as a big surprise that the gophers were eliminated in the playoffs the last two years when they don't score.

That said, maybe they depended too heavily on those two and now that they are gone it will force the others to step it up or be a second tier team.

I don't agree with those who think the Sioux will be able to handle the gophers easily next year. It is always a battle no matter who the teams have lost. It really all depends on who is lost the rest of the summer and the mindset of the players coming back. Duluth was picked to win the league a year ago and look where they ended up. I think if there is one thing that we learn on a year to year basis is that talent alone won't get you anywhere (see Jordan Parise's quote to confirm that).

Minnesota could do very well, but they need many players to step up and fill the gap from the loss of Potulny and Irmen. Heck, Potulnys second half may be the best second half ever for Minnesota according to Woog, and you just can't pick out one or two names to fill that scoring.

Very good points indeed. You're right, it does depend on who will step up their game. But programs like Minnesota and UND are good every year because it's pretty much a given that players do step it up when called upon. Genoway and McMahon did it their senior year for the Sioux scoring more. Next year I think Kozek, Kaip, Spirko, Duncan, etc will step up their game. Players like Gordon, Wheeler, Stoa, and Howe need to step it up next year for the Gophers. That's the best part of being a fan of elite programs like these two, the coaches recruit players who are capable of improving from year to year to keep the dominance going.

[siouxguyinstpaul]

The Gophers were 11 points better than the Sioux this past year and beat them 3 out of 4 games. The Gophers have lost two good players off the entire roster so far with Irmen and Potluny while the Sioux also have lost two good players with Smaby and Zajac but will soon be three with Stafford undoubtedly leaving. The Gophers also have a better recruiting class coming in next year(Johnson and Okposo being better than any Sioux recruit) and they also have two veterans coming back next year in Hirsch and Hagemo.

The Sioux will be great next year as always but the Gophers will not have a difficult time competing with them. If anything the Gophers will be a more complete team next year than this year because the defense will be much improved with adding Johnson and Hagemo and losing two average players in Harrington and Atherton.

um - ok - thanks but you really should take this to GPL as they may care what you think as nobody here does

[jimdahl]

um - ok - thanks but you really should take this to GPL as they may care what you think as nobody here does

When Sioux fans spend pages debating what effect Gopher departures will have on Minnesota and how they'll match up against the Sioux, I think it's entirely reasonable for Minnesota fans to jump in with (sometimes contrary) opinions on the same topic. If you disagree with a post, please argue the content of it, not attack the poster.

[Southernmn]

When Sioux fans spend pages debating what effect Gopher departures will have on Minnesota and how they'll match up against the Sioux, I think it's entirely reasonable for Minnesota fans to jump in with (sometimes contrary) opinions on the same topic. If you disagree with a post, please attack the content of it, not the poster.

Thanks...that's all I really want, some REAL discussion regarding the teams. I some times have a real problem with that on GPL too.

[hockey1]

um - ok - thanks but you really should take this to GPL as they may care what you think as nobody here does

SiouxguyinStpaul, Why are you ripping on BuckySieve? He's giving next years Sioux team many props. All he's saying is both teams will be very good next year despite losing a couple keys players. As for nobody here cares, this entire message board talks mainly about the Sioux AND the Gophers.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

Anyone want to talk about the Mankato State Mavericks?

Don't forget. They lost David Backes. He was more valuable to his team

than Zajac, Smaby, Potulny, Irmen, or Chucko were to their teams.

Let's talk some Mavericks hockey!!

[redwing77]

SiouxguyinStpaul, Why are you ripping on BuckySieve? He's giving next years Sioux team many props. All he's saying is both teams will be very good next year despite losing a couple keys players. As for nobody here cares, this entire message board talks mainly about the Sioux AND the Gophers.

I think what's hitting me most about buckysieve's posts isn't that he disagrees with the Sioux posters. He posts valid points. The Gopher do indeed have a splendid recruiting class coming in. The Gophers may indeed out retain the Sioux this off season (unless the unfounded rumors regarding Chucko become a reality). However, saying that the Gophers will "be a more complete team" than the Sioux next year is a bit unfounded. If anything, the Sioux will be more like the Gophers next year than ever before.

Our offense will be quite similar once again. Okposo is a quality recruit but so are Vandevelde and Forney. EJ will be a SUPERB defenseman, but there are questions of whether or not he'll even play with the Gophers. I think it WILL come down to defense and goaltending next year and I just have to flat out say that, though UMN's defense has a lot of talent in the offensive zone, UND's defense is a TON more responsible in the defensive zone. In a shootout situation, I would indeed expect UMN to win 9 out of 10 times. But if it comes down to a close game, I think UND can outlast UMN. Plus, and yeah, this will start a flame war, but so be it. I would take Jordan Parise 8 times out of the week rather than Briggs AND Frazee COMBINED.

UND's defense is still young, but we're getting older. We have more experience in the post season among our younger players than the Gophers do now (though I'm positive this wouldn't be the case if it hadn't been for Holy Cross), and we spread out our offense to a point where everyone has to carry the load or we don't succeed. UMN can't get away with a two man super show anymore and expect to lead when the game is on the line.

Yeah, we'll more than likely lose Stafford. But with Toews and Oshie coming back and a top prospect with size the likes of Vandevelde and Forney coming in, I don't see how we're losing the battle talent wise. We'll still be a big hitting team with more offensive potential from the D. We'll still have more size than UMN even with Wheeler and EJ in the lineup. We'll still have speed too. I think the Sioux are a VERY dangerous team. We can't write off the Gophers, but Gopher fans certainly cannot say that their team can write off the Sioux either. Oh yeah, two years ago the Gophers had a better offense than the Sioux did and we still took 3 of 4. Last year we lost 3 of 4. So, if you really think the previous year has ANY impact on the record of the Sioux/UMN game, then UND will win 3/4ths of the games vs. Minnesota this next season (or if it is only two games during the regular season, we're guaranteed a split). I, for one, don't believe in past year's single team records. They are a good reference, but they don't carry a lot of weight.

EDIT: Forgot to finish why I quoted hockey1. I get the impression that buckysieve seems to give out props to UND in a very backhanded fashion. The old "UND is good but UMN is better. Oh, and I like Oshie and Toews." It's kinda condescending in a way. At least, that's how I read it.

[Redneksioux]

Yeah, we'll more than likely lose Stafford. But with Toews and Oshie coming back and a top prospect with size the likes of Vandevelde and Forney coming in, I don't see how we're losing the battle talent wise.

Word on the street is Buffalo is finishing up their contract with Stafford and we should be hearing more details very soon.

[AZSIOUX]

i could care less about comparing the 2 recruiting classes between the gophs and sioux becasue they are always going to be in the top 5 in the nation no matter what year it is.

as long as the gophers have briggs between the pipes im not worried 1 damn bit especially when it comes to the NCAA's..gophs fans know he isnt the answer so either weekend at blarneys frazee needs to grow up and show what all the hype was about or it will be the same ol storybook ending

[buckysieve]

I think what's hitting me most about buckysieve's posts isn't that he disagrees with the Sioux posters. He posts valid points. The Gopher do indeed have a splendid recruiting class coming in. The Gophers may indeed out retain the Sioux this off season (unless the unfounded rumors regarding Chucko become a reality). However, saying that the Gophers will "be a more complete team" than the Sioux next year is a bit unfounded. If anything, the Sioux will be more like the Gophers next year than ever before.

EDIT: Forgot to finish why I quoted hockey1. I get the impression that buckysieve seems to give out props to UND in a very backhanded fashion. The old "UND is good but UMN is better. Oh, and I like Oshie and Toews." It's kinda condescending in a way. At least, that's how I read it.

I think you misunderstood me. What I said was the Gophers could be a more complete team next year than this years gopher team.

As far as my compliments about UND, they are never meant to be condescending. I say them because that's how I feel. Like I posted earlier somewhere, if you only rip a player or a program because they're your rival, then you lose credibility. I try to remain objective. People here know I am not a fan of the Sioux to put it kindly, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the program.

[buckysieve]

i could care less about comparing the 2 recruiting classes between the gophs and sioux becasue they are always going to be in the top 5 in the nation no matter what year it is.

as long as the gophers have briggs between the pipes im not worried 1 damn bit especially when it comes to the NCAA's..gophs fans know he isnt the answer so either weekend at blarneys frazee needs to grow up and show what all the hype was about or it will be the same ol storybook ending

I agree that goaltending is an issue but you could replace the name Briggs with Hauser in your post and that's EXACTLY what we heard going into the '01-'02 season. Come to think of it, it's exactly what we heard the following year about Weber.

I agree though, Frazee becoming the go to guy would be a plus.

[AZSIOUX]

I agree that goaltending is an issue but you could replace the name Briggs with Hauser in your post and that's EXACTLY what we heard going into the '01-'02 season. Come to think of it, it's exactly what we heard the following year about Weber.

I agree though, Frazee becoming the go to guy would be a plus.

yeah, im not worried about his regular season numbers at all. but when it comes down to a DO OR DIE game with no tomorrow that guy is loss waiting to happen..is kangas coming in this year or the next??

[buckysieve]

yeah, im not worried about his regular season numbers at all. but when it comes down to a DO OR DIE game with no tomorrow that guy is loss waiting to happen..is kangas coming in this year or the next??

Kangas is coming in the fall of '07. I kind of wish that Briggs would pull a Weber and quit the team so Kangas could come in next year. He put up great stats in the USHL this year.

[Siouxman]

I agree that goaltending is an issue but you could replace the name Briggs with Hauser in your post and that's EXACTLY what we heard going into the '01-'02 season. Come to think of it, it's exactly what we heard the following year about Weber.

I agree though, Frazee becoming the go to guy would be a plus.

I would disagree with the Hauser/Briggs comment. Hauser could rise to the occasion, unless he let a team get into his head. Once that happened, he would play like a 3rd string bantam. There was a WI game that demonstrated that very clearly. It didn't happen a lot, but it did happen. Briggs is a different story. Briggs has played okay at best. During the Gopher hot streak this year, it wasn't because they had good goaltending. It was because the offense was clicking like a well oiled machine. That offense would get opposing teams reeling and off their game. Even with just a decent defense, in that mode you can win a lot of games. The other team is too busy scrambling to mount much offense. A good offense can make a defense look good (except for the MN Vikings). It was when MN ran into better teams in the playoffs and they couldn't get the high flying offense going to get the opponent off balance that they ran into trouble. Then the gaoltending and defensive issues became glaring. The Gophers will need a great defense to get anywhere with Briggs in net. I haven't seen Frazee play that much, but what I have seen indicates that he isn't up to the point yet where he could displace Briggs. Until one of those two decides to become a solid goaltender, come playoff time the tough teams will cause MN trouble next year.

Assuming Kessel doesn't go pro, I think MN will have a good team next year. They will be competitive in the regular season, but I have doubts about doing much at the end of the season. The biggest question mark is who will step up and lead the team with Potulny and Irmen gone. So far Kessel hasn't shown the ability to do that, but that is a high expectation for a sophomore. Look for the Gophers to start very slowly next fall, then potentially improve as the pieces adjust. How much is speculation, what we are all here for.

[Smoggy]

The Gophers have lost two good players off the entire roster so far with Irmen and Potluny while the Sioux also have lost two good players with Smaby and Zajac but will soon be three with Stafford undoubtedly leaving.

The Gophers lost their two BEST players. I don't think the same can be said of the Sioux. Though Smaby is a huge loss. At the same time Potulny made the PP go for the Gophs along with Kessel, who could also leave.

The Gophers also have a better recruiting class coming in next year(Johnson and Okposo being better than any Sioux recruit) and they also have two veterans coming back next year in Hirsch and Hagemo.

They also supposedly had a better recruiting class last year. Johnson will be great, but will he play? Will one year be enough? Hirsch and Hagemo are an enigma. I heard Gopher fans spouting how Hirsch was better than Zach. I don't think he's lived up to the hype so far, and even worse is that no one knows how fragile of a player he is. Speaking of fragile, has Hagemo even touched the ice in 1 1/2 years? Hard to claim that two guys that have hardly played in over a year will be your saviors.

That is the big question. Last year the goaltending was actually pretty good the entire season until the very end. You don't go 20-5-3 and win the WCHA by six points with bad goaltending. Briggs was solid all year but he wasn't the same at the end. I know this gopher fan is counting on Frazee to step it up next year and be the goalie that EVERYONE thought he would be. After all, statistically he had a decent season. His gaa was around 2.5 and his save % was .910. Very similar to Parise's freshman stats.

Will Frazee stay academically eligible or will he need to be suspended again (or was that for something else)? Can you rely on him to not 'lose it' on the ice? He's a very emotional goaltender.

[Siouxman]

Here's the Chucko story.

http://www.startribune.com/512/story/386170.html