Suspense is killing me

[star2city]

Quote from the Dakota Student:

If UND were to make the move up, officials hope the university will successfully move into a conference within a year.

Based on NDSU's experience (going on four years after a DI announcement and no conference), no UND official should ever hope to "successfully move into a conference within a year" unless he knew something was up. Those kinds of statements, based on wishful thinking, can cause serious credibility issues. (Just ask Gene Taylor. )

[bincitysioux]

Quote from the Dakota Student:

Based on NDSU's experience (going on four years after a DI announcement and no conference), no UND official should ever hope to "successfully move into a conference within a year" unless he knew something was up. Those kinds of statements, based on wishful thinking, can cause serious credibility issues. (Just ask Gene Taylor. )

Am I interpreting this right:

"Creating a new conference is something that's not going to be tough," Haskins said, noting that a few colleges in the area either recently have moved up or are considering it.

Is he saying that it'll be easy to form a new conference from thin air? That's a rather bold statement isn't it? I only know of 2 area schools that have recently moved up, and I doubt that either of them would extend a helping hand to UND. Unless he's assuming that USD or SCSU or somebody else has expressed interest in going with UND.

[star2city]

Am I interpreting this right:

Is he saying that it'll be easy to form a new conference from thin air? That's a rather bold statement isn't it? I only know of 2 area schools that have recently moved up, and I doubt that either of them would extend a helping hand to UND. Unless he's assuming that USD or SCSU or somebody else has expressed interest in going with UND.

That quote seems to entirely contradict this statement:

"We have to, hopefully, be able to jump into a full-fledged conference that is willing to accept all our teams," said Robert Haskins, student body president and a member of the finance subcommittee.

[UND Fan]

Money is like goaltending and horsepower: There is no such thing as "too much."

More seriously, Dr. Kupchella's office has said (from Feb 2002):

Note the words "each year". An endowment (guaranteed revenue stream) providing that much annually would be best.

In the telephone survey UND is conducting with Alumni, local business leaders, etc., it is implied that it would cost $3 million a year to make the move and fully fund all the sports we currently offer. That being said, it is part of the DI committee's job to determine exactly what the move would cost. I would guess that it would be more than $3 million.

[The Sicatoka]

Remember who votes on adding teams to conferences: University presidents (not ADs, not coaches, not fans, not media jackals).

University presidents look at things like admissions requirements and school academic ratings, not just athletic programs, when they pick peers (aka conference members).

With the implementation of UND's higher admissions standards this past fall, students currently meet the NCAA requirements for Division I schools, task force members say.

Really. What a coincidence.

[SiouxMD]

If UND went DI-A...keep in mind this "little" statistic...

From the NCAA...

Revenues and Expenses of Divisions I and II Intercollegiate Athletics Programs

WARNING - This is a 36.68 MB *.pdf

2003 TOTAL REVENUES

- Average - Page 24

29,400,000 - DI-A

07,200,000 - DI-AA

02,600,000 - DII w/football

01,700,000 - DII w/o football

2003 TOTAl EXPENSES

- Average - Page 24

27,200,000 - DI-A

07,500,000 - DI-AA

02,700,000 - DII w/football

01,900,000 - DII w/o football

From DI-AA to DI-A...the cost of admission goes up sharply...as does the payday.

[govikes27]

If UND were to make the move up, officials hope the university will successfully move into a conference within a year.

"Creating a new conference is something that's not going to be tough," Haskins said, noting that a few colleges in the area either recently have moved up or are considering it.

Does anyone else find these remarks foolish? I can't imagine trying to start up a conference "something that's not going to be tough," or getting into a conference much easier. Granted, officials are going to put an optimistic view out there or might know more than we do, but those remarks seem a bit much considering NDSU's situation so far.

[The Sicatoka]

"Creating a new conference is something that's not going to be tough," Haskins said, noting that a few colleges in the area either recently have moved up or are considering it.

I read that and think there's an extra extra word, "not", in the quote. I say that because the quote is contradicted by the words that follow it in the story.

Take out "not" and it makes much more sense: "Creating a new conference is something that's going to be tough," Haskins said, noting that a few colleges in the area either recently have moved up or are considering it.

That's my take on it.

[aff]

I read that and think there's an extra extra word, "not", in the quote. I say that because the quote is contradicted by the words that follow it in the story.

Take out "not" and it makes much more sense: "Creating a new conference is something that's going to be tough," Haskins said, noting that a few colleges in the area either recently have moved up or are considering it.

That's my take on it.

That sentence makes no sense at all. Why would he use the phrase "noting that a few colleges in the area either recently have moved up or are considering it" to support the idea that making a new conference would be tough. If he was saying that he would have said something to the effect of "noting that local colleges have moved up have said they are looking for a conference with an autobid, and likely wouldn't be interested in a conference with no NCAA basketball autobid.

[dakotadan]

Wasn't Buning supposed to be on Hot Talk thursday morning to talk about the athletic department and the possible move to DI? Did anybody catch what he said or did I just completely dream this?

[star2city]

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=121848

[PCM]

NDSU institutionally seems to want to differentiate its athletics from UND. Their hardcore fans couldn

[star2city]

Could be? We're already there.

Perhaps it should be restated: the athletics arms race is entering a new phase.

[bincitysioux]

Although I am a huge advocate of a move to I-AA, I'd never be in favor of UND going I-A, whether NDSU went or not. I am a football guy, and I want to compete for championships. We do that now, and I firmly believe we have positioned ourselves to do that in I-AA. But I-A is a completely different beast. I admit that one of the reasons I am for a move is because I really miss the head-to-head competition with NDSU, but if they turned out to be so jealous of UND that they felt the need to attempt to one up UND again and squash their rich football tradition by going I-A, I say have at it. I'll take the basketball matchups and the $150,000 guarantee to play them in football.

I agree that barring an event from the book of Revelations, there is no way that NDSU, UND, SDSU ever gets into the Mountain West. The WAC is a long ways off for NDSU, too. Maybe down the road if say one or both Montana schools get in it could happen. But it would also require a couple current members to leave. Even then, Sac State, Northern Arizona, Davis, or Poly would be more attractive than a Dakota school.

[supersioux]

Bincity- I am on the fence with a DI move, but you post disterbed me a little. You are for competing in championship and feel that going IA would destroy tradition. What would a DI move do to WBB tradition? Or does it matter?

[bincitysioux]

Bincity- I am on the fence with a DI move, but you post disterbed me a little. You are for competing in championship and feel that going IA would destroy tradition. What would a DI move do to WBB tradition? Or does it matter?

Well that kinda goes back to the wanting to go DI-AA but not I-A. I realize that our women's run of total domination would come to an end if we moved up but I think they could still be competetive in a conference like the Big Sky, Mid-Con, or a DI NCC. I think everything would go to hell in a handbasket real quick, if all of the sudden we were asked to compete against to compete against Brigham Young, Utah, San Diego St., Boise, St., Nevada, etc. Those don't sound like UND peers to me. But Montana, Montana St., NDSU, SDSU, Idaho St., schools like that are closer peer institutions to UND than are Crookston, Mary, and Mesa St.

[supersioux]

I agree with that. I think one big question is about tradition and if or how it will change. Part of UND athletics is being successfull nationally in many programs. This is simply why I am still on the fence (although if asked to vote in polls, I vote yes). Is it more prestegious to content for national titles in division II (I'm talking many sports and athletes) or celebarate conference titles and national tournament appearances. The more and more DII becomes watered down more appealing it becomes to be DI

[BobIwabuchiFan]

I agree with that. I think one big question is about tradition and if or how it will change. Part of UND athletics is being successfull nationally in many programs. This is simply why I am still on the fence (although if asked to vote in polls, I vote yes). Is it more prestegious to content for national titles in division II (I'm talking many sports and athletes) or celebarate conference titles and national tournament appearances. The more and more DII becomes watered down more appealing it becomes to be DI

Its not that I don't share the same worries, but I think the concern with a watered down DII level is greatly exagerated. For instance, do you want to go into DIAA and be a nobody or have an opportunity to compete for championships in your division. Also, look what the move to DIAA has done for NDSU...How many kids from ND or Minnesota do you see on the teams - remember when it was fun to identify the basketball players on both teams as being from Minnesota or North Dakota...Now the tradition is bringing in JUCO transfers who end up playing for two seasons before they are let go for academic reasons. I think our strength is in the traditions we have followed in the past and not the opportunity to beat the Wisconsin men's basketball team on a single night when so many will soon forget it.....I'd rather have our names etched on a trophy or logged into the record books with pride instead of disbelief.

[govikes27]

Its not that I don't share the same worries, but I think the concern with a watered down DII level is greatly exagerated. For instance, do you want to go into DIAA and be a nobody or have an opportunity to compete for championships in your division. Also, look what the move to DIAA has done for NDSU...How many kids from ND or Minnesota do you see on the teams - remember when it was fun to identify the basketball players on both teams as being from Minnesota or North Dakota...Now the tradition is bringing in JUCO transfers who end up playing for two seasons before they are let go for academic reasons. I think our strength is in the traditions we have followed in the past and not the opportunity to beat the Wisconsin men's basketball team on a single night when so many will soon forget it.....I'd rather have our names etched on a trophy or logged into the record books with pride instead of disbelief.

You make some good points, but NDSU is going to have a much better shot at a lot of local talent if they decide to recruit them. Maybe not with women's bball right now, because of how competitive they are right now, but overall I think most kids would want to try at competing at the highest level they can.

Like bin said, it's not about competing with big institutions as it is like institutions. I've been cautious about DII vs. DI in the past, but I think it's time to join our peers.

[dlsiouxfan]

Its not that I don't share the same worries, but I think the concern with a watered down DII level is greatly exagerated. For instance, do you want to go into DIAA and be a nobody or have an opportunity to compete for championships in your division. Also, look what the move to DIAA has done for NDSU...How many kids from ND or Minnesota do you see on the teams - remember when it was fun to identify the basketball players on both teams as being from Minnesota or North Dakota...Now the tradition is bringing in JUCO transfers who end up playing for two seasons before they are let go for academic reasons. I think our strength is in the traditions we have followed in the past and not the opportunity to beat the Wisconsin men's basketball team on a single night when so many will soon forget it.....I'd rather have our names etched on a trophy or logged into the record books with pride instead of disbelief.

Part of that tradition has been having the premier athletic program in the state of North Dakota and getting the best local talent. That tradition is diminished if our athletes are soon unfairly labeled as "leftovers" or "Bison Rejects". For example, it wasn't long ago that UM-Crookston won the national Division II hockey title. Did you care? There names were etched on a trophy too, but it doesn't matter if no one cares to read them.

[Bison Dan]

Its not that I don't share the same worries, but I think the concern with a watered down DII level is greatly exagerated. For instance, do you want to go into DIAA and be a nobody or have an opportunity to compete for championships in your division. Also, look what the move to DIAA has done for NDSU...How many kids from ND or Minnesota do you see on the teams - remember when it was fun to identify the basketball players on both teams as being from Minnesota or North Dakota...Now the tradition is bringing in JUCO transfers who end up playing for two seasons before they are let go for academic reasons. I think our strength is in the traditions we have followed in the past and not the opportunity to beat the Wisconsin men's basketball team on a single night when so many will soon forget it.....I'd rather have our names etched on a trophy or logged into the record books with pride instead of disbelief.

NDSU started 4 freshmen and 1 JUCO this year. You need to pick another example if you want to make your point.

[UND92,96]

Steve Hallstrom had some interesting information is his latest blog entry:

I talked to a couple Big Sky people today just to see what the current buzz is.

Commish Fullerton said he had a conference call with his AD's a couple days ago and for the first time he gained a sense that they now understand how difficult basketball scheduling is with 9 teams. He said some AD's want to look at adding a 10th member, but he thinks that going to 12 teams is the way to go, which he's been lobbying for for the last few months. When I asked him what options he sees out there for adding 3 more teams he said there were 2 schools in North Dakota that had positives and one in South Dakota. I asked him about the past conversations we've had when he said UND would not get a look unless they had moved to Division 1. He said that's still a concern, but just the fact that he brought UND up makes me think the Sioux may have a chance to do what they've wanted to all along, and that is get the conference invite before making the move.

link

[star2city]

Steve Hallstrom had some interesting information is his latest blog entry:

link

The timing of the DI announcement has previously been set for the week after finals (if my memory is correct), so that means UND will have publicly (and conveniently) declared their DI interest before the Big Sky meeting:

Big Sky presidents meet on May 23rd in Missoula.

So 2006-7 would be the last year in the NCC (explorartory year)

2007-8 would be a transition year (horrible scheduling issues - NDSU would have a major public relations issue if they don't play us - but Big Sky schools may be open to playing us in just to start establishing rivalries)

2008-9 - UND, NDSU, and SDSU all accepted into the Big Sky, with UND not eligible for NCAAs for three more years and NDSU/SDSU fully eligible.

If this comes true, Harmeson and Kupchella deserve major credit for being patient and steering UND through some treacherous waters in the face of a lot of criticism from the media and some alumni. Having a conference immediately upon a DI move will enhance (not detract from) UND's reputation and save the athletic department and community nearly $10 million relative to what a conference-less situation would cost during a DI transition.

[Bison Dan]

The timing of the DI announcement has previously been set for the week after finals (if my memory is correct), so that means UND will have publicly (and conveniently) declared their DI interest before the Big Sky meeting:

So 2006-7 would be the last year in the NCC (explorartory year)

2007-8 would be a transition year (horrible scheduling issues - NDSU would have a major public relations issue if they don't play us - but Big Sky schools may be open to playing us in just to start establishing rivalries)

2008-9 - UND, NDSU, and SDSU all accepted into the Big Sky, with UND not eligible for NCAAs for three more years and NDSU/SDSU fully eligible.

If this comes true, Harmeson and Kupchella deserve major credit for being patient and steering UND through some treacherous waters in the face of a lot of criticism from the media and some alumni. Having a conference immediately upon a DI move will enhance (not detract from) UND's reputation and save the athletic department and community nearly $10 million relative to what a conference-less situation would cost during a DI transition.

First of all we have 9 games already scheduled for 07-08. 07-08 you'll be in limo. You may have saved some travel cost (not close to 10 million) by following NDSU, UNC, and SDSU's lead if and it's a big IF we get into a conference. Fact is you'll have moved up to DI without a conference something everyone on this board said is the leading factor you didn't move up before. It's not written in stone that the BSC will move to 12 teams, they could just as easily take 1 and be a 10 team conference or stay where they are. If you move up now the only reason will be jealousy, nothing has changed from 3 years ago.

[Bigears]

The timing of the DI announcement has previously been set for the week after finals (if my memory is correct), so that means UND will have publicly (and conveniently) declared their DI interest before the Big Sky meeting:

So 2006-7 would be the last year in the NCC (explorartory year)

2007-8 would be a transition year (horrible scheduling issues - NDSU would have a major public relations issue if they don't play us - but Big Sky schools may be open to playing us in just to start establishing rivalries)

2008-9 - UND, NDSU, and SDSU all accepted into the Big Sky, with UND not eligible for NCAAs for three more years and NDSU/SDSU fully eligible.

If this comes true, Harmeson and Kupchella deserve major credit for being patient and steering UND through some treacherous waters in the face of a lot of criticism from the media and some alumni. Having a conference immediately upon a DI move will enhance (not detract from) UND's reputation and save the athletic department and community nearly $10 million relative to what a conference-less situation would cost during a DI transition.

So what you're saying is that UND officials deserve major credit for crashing NDSU and SDSU's party after all the work has been done and the risk has passed. I think UND will encounter a great deal more resistance to this from NDSU and SDSU than what you expect. Without the Bison and Jackrabbits your chances of getting into the BSC are zero. I don't think either school wants, or needs, a conference relationship with UND.