Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[PCM]

I read the article and found it very interesting that Hall used the relationship between Florida State and the Seminole tribe as the model to which UND should aspire. I certainly can't dispute that it's important for UND to have a good relationship with the tribes of ND, and particularly the Sioux/Lakota/Nakota/Dakota, but it's ironic to me that from what I could find on the FSU website, this so-called model institution has NO Indian Studies department or Indian programs to speak of. Just which school should be emulating the other in this case?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't overlook this statement by Hall:

"Florida State and the Seminoles worked it out and have a great relationship. (UND) doesn't have a relationship," said Hall. "(Kupchella) should sit down with the tribes and work out the issues of why the name is offensive."

In other words, he doesn't want discussions to improve relations between UND and the tribes for the purpose of allowing the university's continued use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. He's saying that the purpose of the talks will be to convince Kupchella and the State Board of Higher Education to drop the name because it's "offensive."

At the same time UND is supposed to drop the name, the university's also supposed to teach tribal culture to its students and, according to the resolution passed by the United Tribes of North Dakota, allow the tribes to pick a new nickname for UND that offends nobody.

This isn't a compromise in any sense of the word. It allowing the tribes to have their cake and eat it too.

[dagies]

Just a thought, just a little Hmmmm. Since the name 'Sioux' is 'pejorative in nature' and 'is offensive to the tribal Nations', why aren't the American Indians (and the NC$$) who are offended by the word 'Sioux', lobbying to not be referred to as 'Sioux' by the state, feds, etc. These agencies, not UND, actually named this Tribal Nation, this population of American Indians, 'Sioux'. UND has named their athletic teams 'Sioux'. The athletes, to the best of my knowledge, are not offended by being referred to as 'Sioux'.

Just a thought.

Yes, and don't you think they would be rallying to change the name of Sioux Falls, Sioux City, etc? I mean, who would stand for Wop Falls?

No one.

[Smoggy]

I can't understand why the origin of the word "Sioux" is even an issue. Obviously, it's not all that offensive to many people who self-identify themselves as such: example 1

example 2

example 3

example 4

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One from my area.

example 4

Notice what word is used and what one is in perenthesis.

I even see many Native Americans driving vehicles with a feather on it and a script native pride. I don't have a problem with it, in fact I think it's kind of cool, but this slams that logo argument about the feather being plastered on stuff.

[Runninwiththedogs]

I heard that the Seminole tribe has made a new warrior outfit for the mascot to wear and they are going to have a ceremony to present it during the next home football game. They have things planned like that for all of their home games, just to rub it in the face of the NCAA.

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That is just so awesome! I love it! I am all for being a sore winner. It is so great that they are telling the NCAA they can't make decisions for them. WOO HOO!

[Goon]

In other words, he doesn't want discussions to improve relations between UND and the tribes for the purpose of allowing the university's continued use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. He's saying that the purpose of the talks will be to convince Kupchella and the State Board of Higher Education to drop the name because it's "offensive."

At the same time UND is supposed to drop the name, the university's also supposed to teach tribal culture to its students and, according to the resolution passed by the United Tribes of North Dakota, allow the tribes to pick a new nickname for UND that offends nobody.

This isn't a compromise in any sense of the word. It allowing the tribes to have their cake and eat it too.

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That sounds like a shake down to me. So we are requiring someone to drop a nick name and give classes on racial sensitivity and pick the nick name. I say if we drop the name they have no say in what we are called.

[PCM]

This isn't directly related to the "hostile and abusive" mascot issue, but it's yet another example of Myles Brand and the NCAA thinking that they're doing something good and ending up looking greedy instead.

Sportsview: NCAA losing some good will

By Jim Litke, Associated Press Sports Columnist

What he said to his audience about poaching on Tuesday was this: "Let me call that athletic looting, to be provocative," said Brand, no stranger to provocation, since he used to be Bobby Knight's boss at Indiana, "and we won't stand for that."

And just like that, all the good will flowing to the NCAA for its sensible, compassionate response weeks earlier, dried up.

Here's hoping the NCAA does a better job of picking its way through this mess than it did just six weeks ago, when the agency put 18 schools on notice that it would bar any athletic program with an American Indian nickname or logo considered racially or ethnically "hostile" or "abusive" from using them in postseason events.

The NCAA is still digging out from the heap of scorn that one inspired, and under threat of lawsuits, it has been handing out waivers ever since. For all the sensible things the agency has already done, and would like to do as the aftershock from Hurricane Katrina spreads across the sports landscape, it's worth remembering that plenty of roads are littered with good intentions.

[Sioux-cia]

This isn't directly related to the "hostile and abusive" mascot issue, but it's yet another example of Myles Brand and the NCAA thinking that they're doing something good and ending up looking greedy instead.

Sportsview: NCAA losing some good will

By Jim Litke, Associated Press Sports Columnist

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sound familiar?

But worse than that was the appearance that the NCAA was looking out for itself by making sure its two big moneymaking sports, basketball and football, suffered as few disruptions as possible.

[spochunk]

[PCM]

Because there are so many American Indian programs on campus, it is close to many reservations, and UND tries to recruit them because it makes UND "look good," and how about it is a good school, except for the fact that it has this logo.

NDSU is also close to reservations. But in 2004, UND had three and a half times more American Indian students than NDSU. Native Americans make up a higher percentage of South Dakota's population than North Dakota's, but UND has more American Indian students than USD and SDSU combined.

Obviously, the reason UND has so many American Indian students is because it puts time, effort and money into recruiting those students and creating educational opportunities for them. That's as it should be. Other schools in the region should be doing the same thing, but they're not.

Wouldn't it be better if those schools were as good as or better than UND at creating programs and edcuational opportunities for American Indians? Shouldn't what a university accomplishes in Native American education and the results it achieves be more important than what it calls its athletic teams?

There are also many other races involved in these protests, because it is a human rights issue. Where there not whites against slavery? Men for women's rights? The comparison by Leigh is justified. Many students are just trying to get an education, and the death threats to some supporters isn't very appealing either.

I am not criticizing other races for being involved in the protests. I am questioning why, after 30 years of debate, an issue that's been compared to slavery and women's suffrage doesn't attract more visible support from the people who are most impacted by it. At a university with more than 400 American Indian students, having fewer than 100 people show up for protest marches suggests that there aren't as many victims of injustice as is alleged.

I'd also like to know how many death threats are made to people who might particpate in protests? Are these threats being reported to law enforcement? Why haven't we heard more about them? Has anyone ever been killed or physically harmed for protesting the Sioux nickname? If so, why haven't we heard about it?

Did you know Psychology students on campus through research for their discertation found that American Indians as a whole have more psychological distress from seeing the nickname/logos then the majority. This study reveals that American Indians on UND campus are suffering psychological harm from the nickname/logo.

I'm aware of those studies. However, I'd like to know why the victims of this psychological harm don't take a more active role in protesting it? Why do American Indian students come to UND in ever-increasing numbers if they know that doing so will cause them pychological harm?

First, the artist wasn't Lakota/Nakota/Dakota. He is Meti. Yes, there are some Indians that do not see a problem with the logo. You can always find somebody within a group of people to use to further your cause, which UND goes out of there way to find those few.

I've read numerous times that Bennett Brien is Chippewa. Is that not the case? Isn't he married to a Sioux woman?

In any event, the idea that only members of the Lakota/Nakota/Dakota tribes are permitted to create artistic representations of themselves seems bigoted to me. Following this line of reasoning, many of the world's great works of arts wouldn't exist because the artist wasn't wasn't of the same race, ethnicity or national origin as the subject.

Are you talking about the 21 American Indian programs??

Well, none of these are paid for by the University, they were created by American Indians and are funded by grants.

I fail to see what difference it makes as to who started these programs or who pays for them. The fact is, they are at UND and not somewhere else. Why do you think that is? Why don't other universities (some much larger than UND) do as much for American Indians as this university? Are those universities better than UND simply because they have non-controversial logos or mascots? Is that really what's most important to you?

Only two of these programs are state funded.

All universities do whatever they can to attract federally funded programs. Most people I know think it's a good idea for universities to pursue such programs. Would UND be a better place for American Indians if it had no federally funded Indian-related programs?

Edited September 16, 2005 by PCM

[spochunk]

Wouldn't it be better if those schools were as good as or better than UND at creating programs and educational opportunities for American Indians? Shouldn't what a university accomplishes in Native American education and the results it achieves be more important than what it calls its athletic teams?

I'd also like to know how many death threats are made to people who might particpate in protests? Are these threats being reported to law enforcement? Why haven't we heard more about them? Has anyone ever been killed or physically harmed for protesting the Sioux nickname? If so, why haven't we heard about it?

But what if what it calls its athletic teams begins to interfere with students

[ScottM]

Anybody who makes a Linnean leap that a school's name/logo is a catalyst for another person's racist actions/words, really needs to pull their head out of their "Fifth Point of Contact". Those people are just as likely to say/do the same crap on any other campus, or any other part of the world.

As to another point, I really don't disagree that the use of the name/logo on gear, REA, etc. should bear some serious consideration and thought by the UND administration. Then again, the NC$$ doesn't seem to mind the licensing fees that come from shot glasses, shorts with "Sioux" on the rear, Welcome mats, etc., inspite of their little edict.

[DamStrait]

But what if what it calls its athletic teams begins to interfere with students

[Let'sGoHawks!]

QUOTE: One must wonder if you are all really pro nickname/logo and are posing as anti in order to give that movement a bad name with all your infantile nonsensical blather.

Interesting possibility....I like your insight.

[redwing77]

It's amazing that such a few incidents represent the majority of an issue.

You know what? When I was a freshman at UND, someone told me not to "Jew" him. What does that mean? Oh, I guess that means that the Christians at UND are now producing a "hostile and abusive" atmosphere at UND and should, henceforth, be kicked out? That does seem ludicrous doesn't it?

One or two, three or even ten idiots doesn't represent 13,000+ students, faculty, and staff. Last time I checked, 100 people wasn't even 10% of the total population so how could 15 be a "Huge Problem'?

The gist is this: Just because a few idiots called a Native American student a "prairie nigger" doesn't mean 12,999 students agree with that idiot. The idiot should be dealt with and the problem resolved.

The actions of the few NEVER EVER EVER represents the beliefs of the majority.

[dagies]

The gist is this:  Just because a few idiots called a Native American student a "prairie nigger" doesn't mean 12,999 students agree with that idiot.  The idiot should be dealt with and the problem resolved.

And, as ScottM said, the nickname doesn't cause this to happen. It would happen if the nickname was the "Flickertails". The nickname doesn't cause racism or bigotry. It just doesn't.

[teamsioux]

If this has been mentioned, my bad, but did any see Ben Brien on the WDAZ news last week talking about his designing the logo? One detail caught my eye as to how far this name issue has come and select people saying it is racist, hostile, abusive, etc. He stated how when he was young (he was Chippewa) that the Sioux kids his age would hold it over him and his friends that UND used the name Sioux and not Chippewa. The Sioux kids were proud of it and he and his friends were basically jealous. He felt it should still be the same way. Just shows how the world is becoming way too PC, at least for me.

[PCM]

But what if what it calls its athletic teams begins to interfere with students

[redwing77]

Ugh PCM, too much logic in that last post.

[new2sioux2]

why does the University of North Dakota have more than twice as many Native American students as any other university in the region?

Because there are so many American Indian programs on campus, it is close to many reservations, and UND tries to recruit them because it makes UND "look good," and how about it is a good school, except for the fact that it has this logo.

Why, when protests of the Sioux nickname are held, do fewer than 100 protestors march, (a high percentage of them white) on a campus with more than 400 American Indian students?

There are also many other races involved in these protests, because it is a human rights issue. Where there not whites against slavery? Men for women's rights? The comparison by Leigh is justified. Many students are just trying to get an education, and the death threats to some supporters isn't very appealing either.

Why do 61% of American Indians in North Dakota say they're not offended by UND's use of the Sioux nickname?

Did you know Psychology students on campus through research for their discertation found that American Indians as a whole have more psychological distress from seeing the nickname/logos then the majority. This study reveals that American Indians on UND campus are suffering psychological harm from the nickname/logo.

Why would an American Indian artist design UND's logo?

First, the artist wasn't Lakota/Nakota/Dakota. He is Meti. Yes, there are some Indians that do not see a problem with the logo. You can always find somebody within a group of people to use to further your cause, which UND goes out of there way to find those few.

Why would a university that's "hostile and abusive" to American Indians create so many educational opportunities for them? It appears to me that you have left many facts out of your disingenuous

Are you talking about the 21 American Indian programs??

Well, none of these are paid for by the University, they were created by American Indians and are funded by grants. Only two of these programs are state funded. Oh, and the majority of them have already made resolutions against the name. I think there are two that haven't, and they were just recently created.

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[Ranger]

Anybody who makes a Linnean leap that a school's name/logo is a catalyst for another person's racist actions/words, really needs to pull their head out of their "Fifth Point of Contact".  Those people are just as likely to say/do the same crap on any other campus, or any other part of the world. 

As to another point, I really don't disagree that the use of the name/logo on gear, REA, etc. should bear some serious consideration and thought by the UND administration.  Then again, the NC$$ doesn't seem to mind the licensing fees that come from shot glasses, shorts with "Sioux" on the rear, Welcome mats, etc., inspite of their little edict.

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ScottM... that would be their "Fourth Point of Contact."

Tighten up Ranger...

[new2sioux2]

sorry for all of the mis-spellings in the previous post...I was typing faster than I was thinking...(that doesn't sound too great )

[dagies]

sorry for all of the mis-spellings in the previous post...I was typing faster than I was thinking...(that doesn't sound too great )

pssst...just use the "edit" button.

[ScottM]

ScottM... that would be their "Fourth Point of Contact."

Tighten up Ranger...

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It's been a few years and more since I'd even used the term, but I was trying to be "polite". Plus, I had to account for inflation.

[KnowtheFacts]

interesting.. the people who dont see the racism like the idea of the "mascot" and the ones that are around and experience the racism and ignorance are against it...hmmm.

but i do think they should do something before "the anti-Semetic cries .. get violent or disrupt public order."

But who cares, those Israelies have more important things to worry about. Like preserving their country.... what is a little anti-semitism and good hearted racist chants, when there are tanks and suicide bombers to worry about?

Amsterdam's 'Israeli team'

From abroad, many Israelis who see the blue-and-white flag waving at the arena get excited. They see the flag as obvious support for Israel and a public comment on affairs in the Middle East.

Dutch Jews feel differently. Many view the Ajax-Jew phenomenon as steeped in pure ignorance.

[Diggler]

You only quoted the first sentence from that paragraph about how Dutch Jews view Ajax. The rest of the paragraph,

The Jewish community in the Netherlands, like the local authorities, realizes that the majority of the hard-core supporters of Ajax - and its rivals - have never even met a Jew. But as long as the anti-Semetic cries don't get violent or disrupt public order, they see no need to intervene.

So really, there isn't that big of a problem with it. As long as people don't get violent, who cares seems to be the attitude of most Dutch Jews.