KnowtheFacts

It looks like the Soldier and the Dancer (he is dressed in pretty typical Traditional Dancer Regalia) are the same person and have the same facial characteristics. Soldiers and Veterans are highly respected in all American Indian Cultures. It is always Veterans or Active Miltary who bring in and out the Eagle staff and Flags at the PowWow. Maybe it is a statement of yesterday and today and overall respect for our elders who served in the miltary (the tall grass and military uniform seem to be Vietnam era, but Im no expert). The circle is also very symbolic in this culture. The tipi design is pretty neat and you will see it in many variations on the beadwork and quillwork of Lakota dancers. i think it is interesting how some people saw a soldier and an indian scout, when really it appears to be the same person. Also, there were numerous Indian Languages used for the codetalking in WWII which included Navajo (which is the most well known) as well as Lakota, Commanche, Choctaw, Kiowa, Winnebago, Hopi, and Cherokee. so you're both right.

WTF?

Um... How come it is okay for a Christian school and not an atheist school to use Jesus?

It takes more balls to admit you were wrong, than it does to just keep on what you're doing. Just look at George W. and his war.

Hey keep me out of this, I apologized.

I see what you're saying. And I think some colleges are doing some weird and interesting things to not exactly change their name (ie Red Men and now Savage Storm) I dont know all about this situation, and from up here Savage Storm seems like a good compromise. Your comment that I replied to had to do with the word Savages - not savage storm. I think we view this situation from a different context and culture. Because here in North Dakota, where there is no racism, there is truly no association with the word Savages and Native Americans. However, the region that this school is in has clearly created an association with the word "Savages" and Native Americans (where before, "there may have been none". Before- meaning pre-settlement of America. As GK pointed out - Savages is a term used by Christopher Columbus in his description of the people he met when he came to this continent). later Dude

It must have been the people that thought of the name in the first place. (those racists!) Seeing as the "Savages" proponents argue that "Savages" honors Native Americans..... http://www.sosu.edu/lib/mascot.htm You said it, not me. How could you possibly associate "Savages" with Native Americans when the logo design includes arrows and feathers and the mascot is a "Spirit Pony" (and was previously a Human Native American caricature)? How they get to that association is beyond me (sarcasm).

Should I use another example like say Japanese internment camps. Some Japanese did keep silent - and how did that help the situation? You have to speak up to get things to change. Keeping silent or moving away doesnt solve anything.

People say they live in ND because they like the seasons. Winter, winter, and fall. Lets see. I know you've been out of the game for a while, but for the most part people are limited to in-state schools unless the school they are applying to is a private university or they are well-off. In-State tuition is incredibly lower that out-of-state tuition. In addition, UND has many quality educational programs that the other ND schools don't have. Medicine, Law, Aerospace, Physical Therapy, Physician Assistant, Marketing, Human Resources, probably some specialized nursing programs... whatever. NDSU has their own specialties - Ag and Engineering are first two that come to mind. Although your life may revolve around hockey and preserving the logo, other people make decisions of where they want to live based on many other factors. Obviously some are willing to live in a hostile environment in order to gain other opportunities provided by living here that may have nothing to do with the logo or UND for that matter.

No, 7nationaltitles is talking about 2 different things. 1. the Fighting Sioux nickname 2. the Mandan Braves nickname I think the question is: Why arent there resolutions against the Mandan Braves nickname? Im saying that there are. and even if you dont agree with what is said on these websites, they do provide documentation of some of those resolutions: the UND BRIDGES website and www.aistm.org Im also said that the Sioux tribal resolutions that Im talking about are specific for UND and the Fighting Sioux nickname.

So in that case shouldn't the entire Native American community be against Mandan and not any one specific tribe since they are using the all-encompassing (sp?) Braves name. Under your logic then, there should be more backlash against them because they are trying to group all Native American tribes by using the name Braves. But my question was why isn't there any backlash by the Native American community against their name? You haven't answered that yet.

Whatever... I didnt say it.

actually, to be more precise its a McIntosh

I thought it was a simple enough statement to stand on its own. The opportunity of making a better life for themselves. The opportunity of a higher education. The opportunity of showing the white man that there is a way, that there is opportunity to do better out there. The opportunity of getting so damn educated, and getting ones people so damn educated, that the stereotypes that may or may not be true can be no longer. The risk of having to "tolerate" someone who wants to "honor" them instead of actually "listening" to them. The risk of having to hear some assholes opinion of you daily. The risk of having to walk around campus and be harrassed by people wearing a "Fighting Sioux" logo on their shirt. The risk of being lectured about the logo daily - whether you have an opinion or not. IN ADDITION. In light of Monday's holiday. I dont think it was being too thin skinned and weak for Blacks to stand up for their right to be treated equally. They had been biting their tongue long enough and you know what it took for someone to take them seriously? Keeping quiet about it didnt work. NO someone had to speak up so that their voices could be heard.

It's just an apple. I actually had heard that term used for that before, but that has nothing to do with my pic. Interesting that some of you all are so interested in a picture of a fruit.

Im sure you could find many many other schools that have Indian-related nicknames. UND is one of only a few schools that chose to use a specific Tribal Name. Thus involving those specific tribes.

I want to know why you think changing the logo is treating people like they dont exist. There arent any logos around "glorifying" black people? Does that mean that you treat them as if they did not exist? There arent any logos "honoring" the Japanese. The fought valiantly in war too and lost. I think these people groups get along just fine without logos in their "honor" I think changing the logo is treating people like they DO exist and that someone actually read the resolutions that these tribes have put forward.

Are you serious? I have copies of them right here. How come people seem to know about the Spirit Lake Resolution- which does not fully support or refuse the logo - but no one knows that 7 other Sioux Tribes have resolutions as well that are much more clear on where they stand on the issue. Standing Rock Sioux Tribe (2 resolutions) Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe Oglala Sioux Tribe Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe Yankton Sioux Tribe Crow Creek Sioux Tribe Rosebud Sioux Tribe

no, no, no. The reason is: "Because the Sioux tribes, whom you claim to be honoring, have asked UND to change the name"

sorry PCM. My comments were out of place.

well sir, UND had its chance and blew it. (75 years or so) I think it is time for the name to go.

[ UND isn't the only university in the nation that promotes its minority education programs.

I dont work for UND.

UND: Hello, is this PCM? PCM: why yes it is! UND: Do you ever actually work at the job we are paying you for? Or do you just spend all day chatting online and furthering your own personal agendas? PCM: um, er.... Anyhow, a plaque award whatever you are talking about is totally different that using a sterotyped image on a hockey jersey and the nickname "Fighting Sioux" across someone's behind on their sweatpants. I see you are of the thought that if the "Fighting Sioux" image and nick is removed then the Sioux people will fade into memory. No, only your stereotypical images and beliefs will fade.

why do illegal immigrants come to america? Opportunity despite the risk.