To begin a journey of a 1000 miles....

[PCM]

Let's not turn this into a Democrat vs. Republican or liberal vs. conservative issue. One of the great strengths we have is the very diverse group of people supporting the Fighting Sioux name. We shouldn't screw that up because we all need each other.

[Sioux-cia]

Let's not turn this into a Democrat vs. Republican or liberal vs. conservative issue. One of the great strengths we have is the very diverse group of people supporting the Fighting Sioux name. We shouldn't screw that up because we all need each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Based on every poll I've read relating to the subject, I suspect support of the Fighting Sioux nickname comes from all over the political map - Republicans, Democrats, independents, and moderates. I happen to personally know quite a few Democrats that strongly support the Fighting Sioux nickname.

I totally agree with both of you.

[dagies]

Let's not turn this into a Democrat vs. Republican or liberal vs. conservative issue. One of the great strengths we have is the very diverse group of people supporting the Fighting Sioux name. We shouldn't screw that up because we all need each other.

I have two very close friends who would be pictured by the definition of "bleeding heart liberal" in the dictionary, and at lunch the other day both surprised me by wondering what all the fuss was over UND's nickname. In fact, the one thought it was something for the Native Americans to be proud of. Both, at the same time, abhor the Chief Yahoo logo and the Redskins nickname.

[KnowtheFacts]

[Sioux-cia]

If you are so proud of UND for *all* she provides then changing the name wont affect your support of your alma mater.  In fact, maybe with less emphasis on the Native American programming, the Other minority programming can come to the forefront.

The logo Fighting Sioux has NOT deterred nor stopped the progressive NA programs that continue to grow at UND. "Other" minorities, if you are referring to Mexican-Americans are doing well at UND without the special programs. In my case it was the love and example of my parents and relatives (the highest grade our parents finished was third grade) who had, adopted or acquired almost 100 offspring>>85% who have attended a and/or graduated from college. No programs, no gifts just hard work and persaverance. We weren't raised to be on the dole nor were we raised to expect special treatment because we were 'minorities'. We were raised to have goals and knew through their example that we could reach them through hard work. I'm not whining, I'm proud.

It is a great accomplishment in face of the prejudices you must have experienced while in GF (unless of course you happen to not look MA). 

STUPID remark but expected from someone who is NOT a minority but thinks they know how one is treated.

My children know who they are, are proud of who they are. Words that children use against each other to hurt are not limited. Children call each other Ugly, Fat, Poor, Smelly, etc. Changing the Sioux logo is not going to change that. Raising your children to have pride in themselves will help them endure the name calling and raising them to know that words can be hurtful will help them stop using them.

I dont think I am whining that the programs aren't enough.  I just dont think they are at a level that one can really brag about them like Kupchella does when defending the "Fighting Sioux" name.  That's what Ive been trying to explain, but you guys keep going off on tangents or personal attacks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's that tunnel vision of yours again. Tell me what other University in the country offers more than the University of North Dakota to NAs. We are thousands of students smaller than many and yet can compete with them in this arena toe to toe. Get the blinders off.

[KnowtheFacts]

Is it just me or do I see more English Professors in this picture than Native Americans?!?!?!?!?!

Once again, I am SORRRRRRY!  I could NOT resist!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting how you picked the two pictures out of 16 that appear to have no natives in them.

[KnowtheFacts]

Bush dodges question, as do all politicians. He dodges when he doesn't have an answer (which is a lot) but I am not sure GW can tell if the answer he has is favorable for his situation of not. Clinton was a master at speaking, never answering the actual questions. I think thats why he gets so much action.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Bush answers questions, he just answers them wrong.

[KnowtheFacts]

When someone is really passionate about an issue, they don't wait for someone to find them and tell them "there's going to be a protest". The GF Herald has done a pretty good job getting the word out as have the local television stations. The reason there are not more people in general and few if any NAs in particular at these protests is because the only people who want the name change are at the protest. You can make up as many "reasons" as you like but a picture is worth a thousand words. (See DakotaDan post above.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. yeah right, In general the media is very pro-name, why would they advertise a protest?

2. please, look at the rest of the pictues. Like i said he picked 2 out of 16 pictures that were the most likely to advance his own agenda. And for the one pic with the three women... out of the 5 people in the picture, 3 are native american.

3. obviously you didnt want a serious answer to the question. All you are going to do is discount any answer I give anyway.

[The Sicatoka]

1.  yeah right, In general the media is very pro-name, why would they advertise a protest? 

The GF Herald, with Ms. Yellow Bird on staff, is pro-name? With their history of covering every BRIDGES or related event is pro-name?

I'd give the Herald a rating of trying to stay down the middle on reporting and being slightly tilted pro-change editorially.

[ESPNInsider]

[Sioux-cia]

[dakotadan]

[airmail]

Looking at all of those pictures it is pretty obvious there are more "whites" than native americans at that rally. The native americans shown in the photos seems to be pretty much be the same handful in all of the pictures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember the protest at the opnening night of the arena well... Russell Means and a bunch of white guys in Birkenstocks.

[elmduf]

I have two very close friends who would be pictured by the definition of "bleeding heart liberal" in the dictionary, and at lunch the other day both surprised me by wondering what all the fuss was over UND's nickname. In fact, the one thought it was something for the Native Americans to be proud of. Both, at the same time, abhor the Chief Yahoo logo and the Redskins nickname.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Totally agree here. Both of my brothers attended UND. (They both graduated elsewhere.) I attended and graduated from UND. Despite that, we are all stinking left wing pinko's Yet we all dig the Fighting Sioux logo and the name. We all also don't like the Wahoo and the Redskin nickname.

They are respectful at UND. Ralph went out of his way to reach out to the Native American community. I feel it is more beneficial to them to keep the name. They will keep the name out there and probably increase funding to the programs that they want/need.

I emailed and am writing all the folks I can think of to raise cain about this issue. Let's stick together and not get into namecalling. You would be surprised who is on the side of the name and logo.

[7>4]

Like these??

I AM REALLLLLLLLY SORRRRRRRY!!!!! I COULDN'T RESIST!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man, and married with kids and everything. I thought NoDak passed a law that prevents such a thing.

Article on CNN.com saying that NCAA will allow Indian tribes to be heard on nickname issue. Focused on Florida State mostly since it appears Seminole tribe supports the name. If there are differences between Sioux tribes as to the logo, wonder how the NCAA will weigh that evidence? Does one tribe have more pull over another?

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Fine, we change the name...then we drop all Native American programs and scholarships...let them fend for themselves the way most college students do...

Change it to the Fighting Irish...and give me and my heritage scholarships and programs...just for being Irish...

And neither of you answered my question...are you named after a relative?

The reason I ask is that my brother and I are both named after my grandfather...I highly doubt they would do that to disrespect him. We generally name things after people to honor them...not disrespect them...

[HockeyMom]

1.

[Runninwiththedogs]

I suggest a thumb wrestling match between PCM and GKracker, best two out of three, winner take all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man, don't let PCM represent us! He's old, and arthritic!

I say, go HockeyMom!

Um, maybe don't bring little children to a protest.

Yeah don't force kids to take your own viewpoint, let them think for themselves.

no reason to get bitc*y.  Once again, I really am trying to be civil, but it is hard with remarks like yours.

Just because she's a woman, doesn't make her a b*tch if she tries to make a point that you weren't listening to. DISCRIMINATION!

[Goon]

Edited August 22, 2005 by Goon

[Goon]

Let's not turn this into a Democrat vs. Republican or liberal vs. conservative issue. One of the great strengths we have is the very diverse group of people supporting the Fighting Sioux name. We shouldn't screw that up because we all need each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PCM I hate to disagree with you but nationally this is a Right vs Left Issue. It may not be here in the community but it is being fought on the national issue as this. Notice our three amigos haven't come out and made a strong statement against changing the name. I have yet to see them as guest writers denouncing the NCAA's decision.

Also, most of the people in favor of changing the name are leftists wether they be from the Editorial boards or from non reveune producing social science departments at UND Sociology, English, Anthropology etc.

Left wing extremists are the ones that are all over this this issue and they are in your face and rude..

[ScottM]

What's the deal with all of the pics of the white folks carrying signs? Are some of the fatter ones out for some needed exercise?

[PCM]

Left wing extremists are the ones that are all over this this issue and they are in your face and rude..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not all Democrats are "left wing extremists." Neither are all liberals.

This is a political issue. In politics, you don't reject help from potential allies just because you don't see eye-to-eye with them on all issues.

[airmail]

Not all Democrats are "left wing extremists." Neither are all liberals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, but I don't think that is the thought that Goon is conveying.

Left wing extremists are the ones that are all over this this issue...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No argumant here. Historically, the P.C. crowd has been at the forefront of the nickname issue, and are arguably more liberal than conservative. This political affiliation, IMO, is probably why FSU has the vocal support of their congressional represenatatives (republican) while we do not... at least at this time.

[Sioux-cia]

Agreed, but I don't think that is the thought that Goon is conveying.

No argumant here. Historically, the P.C. crowd has been at the forefront of the nickname issue, and are arguably more liberal than conservative. This political affiliation, IMO, is probably why FSU has the vocal support of their congressional represenatatives (republican) while we do not... at least at this time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a bleeding heart liberal who is not a left wing extremist, I may be seeing the name change issue differently because I am also a UND alum. But I really don't think so. I see this as more of a freedom of speech issue than anything else. Why should an entity such as the NC$$ who has the power to bankrupt an athletic program with this type of inane injunction be allowed to dictate to a University what they can or cannot call themselves? I don't see that what a school's nickname or logo has to do with what the NC$$ reason for existance. Where the he!! is the ACLU?!

[dagies]

Where the he!! is the ACLU?!

Good question. I'd guess burying their head firmly in the sand on this one.