Hockey no longer a major sport

[jimdahl]

Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere, I didn't see it:

SI column

It's pretty hard to disagree with him, people just don't like watching hockey on television. In fact, I'd take it a step further and say that the NHL trying to pretend it's an equal to the NBA or NFL is part of what got it in its current mess. Player salaries have grown at a ridiculous rate, I think largely because the owners and players are using other sport with much much fatter TV contracts as benchmarks.

[#1siouxfan22]

Personally i think people dont give hockey a chance. The people that like basketball are scared to watch a physical sport, the baseball season doesnt stop and football only has a game a week so more people gather for those. Hockey will always be my number one sport!

[PCM]

I know many here will disagree with me, but I think the fact that average sports fans won't or don't watch the NHL is because the league refuses to shake its "Slapshot" image, which puts it at just above the level of pro wrestling in the public's view.

I have friends and relatives who will watch the Sioux whenever they can, but absolutely refuse to watch the NHL because they equate pro hockey with goonery and fighting.

And why shouldn't they? What hockey moments are guaranteed to make the sports highlights of practically every broadcast around the country? Of course, it's the big fights or instances of players acting like street thugs. As long as hockey fans cling to the notion that "fighting is part of the game," our sport will always play second fiddle to football, basketball and baseball.

As others here have noted, it wouldn't hurt to open up the game by eliminating the two-line pass rule and strictly enforcing the rules on obstruction and interference. If I were in charge of the NHL, I'd also made full cages or face shields mandatory (as they are in college) and switch to Olympic-size ice.

Rip away.

[BigGame]

I know many here will disagree with me, but I think the fact that average sports fans won't or don't watch the NHL is because the league refuses to shake its "Slapshot" image, which puts it at just above the level of pro wrestling in the public's view.

I have friends and relatives who will watch the Sioux whenever they can, but absolutely refuse to watch the NHL because they equate pro hockey with goonery and fighting.

And why shouldn't they? What hockey moments are guaranteed to make the sports highlights of practically every broadcast around the country? Of course, it's the big fights or instances of players acting like street thugs. As long as hockey fans cling to the notion that "fighting is part of the game," our sport will always play second fiddle to football, basketball and baseball.

As others here have noted, it wouldn't hurt to open up the game by eliminating the two-line pass rule and strictly enforcing the rules on obstruction and interference. If I were in charge of the NHL, I'd also made full cages or face shields mandatory (as they are in college) and switch to Olympic-size ice.

Rip away.

I am actually in agreement with most of what you said, but I also think that hockey needs to grow and develop more in the southern US in order for it to really be considered a major sport.

Families need to be very financially stable to play hockey up north, and you have to be borderline wealthy to play hockey in the south. This makes it difficult to make the sport as mainstream as say basketball, because all you need is a ball and a park with a hoop to play.

[AZSIOUX]

this topic was discussed here in arizona yesterday on one of the major stations in the valley. they were making the point that nhl hockey is about 6-8 now in sporting events when it comes to ratings and popularity of going to the events. NASCAR, GOLF, ARENA FOOTBALL draw better ratings. is this my opinion, NO but they make great points about this. we can all argue that these are not even sports in some people's eyes but the low ratings tell the story and the nhl commish just had to scramble with NBC to get a weak tv offer to keep just a few games on tv in the future. he is ruining hockey.. hockey is a terrible tv sport and thats coming form a die hard sioux fan, also its such a regional sport and thats tough on many areas in the states. its boring to watch these days in the nhl and for a newcomer to try to learn the sport watching tv is very hard for them..i believe its losing its MAJOR 4 status and thats just the honest truth. wish is wasn't but thats the way its going today..there needs to be some changes to make the sport more fun to watch in the nhl...no red line, smaller goalie pads or bigger nets, bigger ice sheet??? i don't know but they need to do something. PCM is right!! just heard also that bowling has a better tv rating than hockey. the nhl signed a revenue sharing contract with nbc which is a joke and its the same deal the arena football has with nbc. they are in a world of hurt!!!!

[jloos]

I know many here will disagree with me, but I think the fact that average sports fans won't or don't watch the NHL is because the league refuses to shake its "Slapshot" image, which puts it at just above the level of pro wrestling in the public's view.

I have friends and relatives who will watch the Sioux whenever they can, but absolutely refuse to watch the NHL because they equate pro hockey with goonery and fighting.

And why shouldn't they? What hockey moments are guaranteed to make the sports highlights of practically every broadcast around the country? Of course, it's the big fights or instances of players acting like street thugs. As long as hockey fans cling to the notion that "fighting is part of the game," our sport will always play second fiddle to football, basketball and baseball.

As others here have noted, it wouldn't hurt to open up the game by eliminating the two-line pass rule and strictly enforcing the rules on obstruction and interference. If I were in charge of the NHL, I'd also made full cages or face shields mandatory (as they are in college) and switch to Olympic-size ice.

Rip away.

My take on it is: 1 - Hockey has always and will always be a better sport to watch live. It is too fasts moving for television, at least for the average sports fan.

2 - Hockey is still a regional thing. A lot of places down south now have hockey, but mostly for rich kids whose parents are from the north. For a kid to play hockey in Texas or Arizona the parents have to throw down about $15K just to play. Add the traveling expenses on top of that, including flying to several tournaments.

Personally I think gooning the game up attracts the southern viewers - look at the Central Hockey League - it is basically a Slapshot like league mostly in Texas. Hockey is too complicated for the simple redneck mind, but watching guys beat the crap out of each other with sticks is good entertainment.

[DamStrait]

Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. If I come off sounding like a snob, then I've succeeded .

Regarding PCM's response (it's not really necessary to rip away is it? I mean, aren't we among friends? - excluding loafer lovers, of course):

Baseball bench clearing brawls and basketball fights (if those open-handed purse-swinging affairs can truly be termed "fights") are also sure to lead off nightly sports highlights.

Olympic sized rinks and the elimination of the two-line pass penalty are likely to result in more teams implementing the trap and one man forecheck. Why? Because they will be even more afraid of getting burned. I think reducing the size of goalie pads to that which is only necessary for their protection (which ain't much using today's superior materials) and something really radical, having only one face-off dot in each end, located exactly halfway between the two that exist today, would be much more effective in increasing scoring.

[Fedorov]

The answer to improving hockey ratings is HD broadcasts. I realize that HD is almost unheard of in ND, but it is popular eslewhere. There have been new fans that watch hockey just because it is HD (mainly on HDNET, sometimes when ESPNHD can get it right). It no longer becomes to fast for people, and the new watchers state they can easily follow the puck in HD. Obviously it will take a while for HD to become more mainstream, especially with our local stations and cable companies in no hurry, but it can be done if there isn't a lockout next year. Unfortunately, ESPN has already signed a deal that will show less games and all regular season games will be on ESPN2. The only hope is that the new ESPNHD studio will allow them to choose between ESPN and ESPN2 for what they broadcast on ESPNHD. For anyone that is lost or wants to learn more about HD, I suggest checking out the AVS Forums

[U2Bad1]

Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. If I come off sounding like a snob, then I've succeeded .

Regarding PCM's response (it's not really necessary to rip away is it? I mean, aren't we among friends? - excluding loafer lovers, of course):

Baseball bench clearing brawls and basketball fights (if those open-handed purse-swinging affairs can truly be termed "fights") are also sure to lead off nightly sports highlights.

Olympic sized rinks and the elimination of the two-line pass penalty are likely to result in more teams implementing the trap and one man forecheck. Why? Because they will be even more afraid of getting burned. I think reducing the size of goalie pads to that which is only necessary for their protection (which ain't much using today's superior materials) and something really radical, having only one face-off dot in each end, located exactly halfway between the two that exist today, would be much more effective in increasing scoring.

Couldnt they make the trap illegal too???

[huskies679]

do you honestly think that a crisper picture on the tv will do anything? i think it is the game itself. they game is broken and there is not enough scoring. it is hard to watch. i do enjoy it live but i just can't deal with it on tv. i follow the wcha and attend many games. so i do consider myself a fan of college hockey. besides, nobody will have to worry about the nhl next year because fo the lock out. hockey is not even on the radar for the vast majority of american sports fans and i hope a lock out does not kill the game.

[#1siouxfan22]

I know many here will disagree with me, but I think the fact that average sports fans won't or don't watch the NHL is because the league refuses to shake its "Slapshot" image, which puts it at just above the level of pro wrestling in the public's view.

I have friends and relatives who will watch the Sioux whenever they can, but absolutely refuse to watch the NHL because they equate pro hockey with goonery and fighting.

And why shouldn't they? What hockey moments are guaranteed to make the sports highlights of practically every broadcast around the country? Of course, it's the big fights or instances of players acting like street thugs. As long as hockey fans cling to the notion that "fighting is part of the game," our sport will always play second fiddle to football, basketball and baseball.

As others here have noted, it wouldn't hurt to open up the game by eliminating the two-line pass rule and strictly enforcing the rules on obstruction and interference. If I were in charge of the NHL, I'd also made full cages or face shields mandatory (as they are in college) and switch to Olympic-size ice.

Rip away.

i agree with PCM in that pros should have to wear full masks

[farce poobah]

Oh gosh, where to start. There's so many targets here.

First, the author is REALLY frustrated that his beloved Islanders haven't won in a long time. He was a fan when they were winning but now that they are losing, he's not.

Second, as a maximum hypocrite, he criticizes the "bandwagon" fans, while describing his personal behavior as exactly the same, while conveniently forgetting to label himself as a hypocrite too.

Third, his sole criteria for deciding that hockey is "no longer a major sport" is that the free-TV broadcast rights package went down in value. What a stupid yardstick. And I got news for him - when baseball and NFL and yes college hoops get renegotiated the next time, those numbers are going to decline too.

If attendance were going down, then it would be time to conclude NHL popularity was falling.

But back to the argument about what's a major sport ... if I were to make an offhand guess, without facts like TV ratings, attendance, and so on, I would say that the NHL is about where it has been (except on Long Island) for some time. They set a long term goal of expanding into the southern USA, and are making some progress... but it will take decades to see if the bet works or not.

Last, a prediction - when the Yankees don't win a world title for the next 5 years, we'll see him write in 2008 about how baseball is falling in popularity.

Sheesh.

[#1siouxfan22]

I can agree on the attendence part. attendence in the nhl is great right now.

[redwing77]

Oh gosh, where to start. There's so many targets here.

First, the author is REALLY frustrated that his beloved Islanders haven't won in a long time. He was a fan when they were winning but now that they are losing, he's not.

Second, as a maximum hypocrite, he criticizes the "bandwagon" fans, while describing his personal behavior as exactly the same, while conveniently forgetting to label himself as a hypocrite too.

Third, his sole criteria for deciding that hockey is "no longer a major sport" is that the free-TV broadcast rights package went down in value. What a stupid yardstick. And I got news for him - when baseball and NFL and yes college hoops get renegotiated the next time, those numbers are going to decline too.

If attendance were going down, then it would be time to conclude NHL popularity was falling.

But back to the argument about what's a major sport ... if I were to make an offhand guess, without facts like TV ratings, attendance, and so on, I would say that the NHL is about where it has been (except on Long Island) for some time. They set a long term goal of expanding into the southern USA, and are making some progress... but it will take decades to see if the bet works or not.

Last, a prediction - when the Yankees don't win a world title for the next 5 years, we'll see him write in 2008 about how baseball is falling in popularity.

Sheesh.

I agree with a lot of what you say with a few exceptions:

I really think it will depend on what you mean on decline when you speak of college hoops. ESPN's sole reason for living is for college hoops. When NBA was in the gutters, they still pumped the NBA because it was basketball. When you have a media powerhouse in your "pocket" like the sport of basketball has ESPN, the decline will probably be less than the rest.

As for those sports getting higher rankings than hockey, where is Bowling? I thought that was a highly rated sport...

And I could care less if the Yankees don't win another World Series until 3245.

This author obviously supports dynasties. And dynasties won't work unless you get rid of free agency. Fat chance that will ever happen. The players are too greedy.

[MafiaMan]

Read this week's Sports Illustrated...there is an article touting the demise of the trap in favor of speedy teams like the Lightning and the Flames. Check it out. I concur (and I'm a Red Wings fan)...Tampa Bay and Calgary have been two of the most exciting teams I've watched in recent memory. TV ratings be damned...I'm glad we don't have to watch the slog-fest that was last year's finals (Anaheim and New Jersey). GO LIGHTNING!

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

One reason I think it's declining is there is almost no promotion of the sport. Look at the NBA, every other commercial I've seen lately on ESPN advertises the NBA playoffs. From what I've heard from some people is if you go to a game, you're hooked. It's a great sport (as we all know) and if people can get exposed to the more of the game other than the gooning (let's be honest...only time hockey will lead SC is if there's an "incident" or the Stanley Cup has been won), there's a better possiblity of it becoming more popular. I also think if you make it more like the college game (no red line) it will increase in popularity as well. And, as much as I'd like to keep it on NHL size ice...Olympic ice will open the game much more, adding more offense, or at the very least some great moves for the highlight reel

[skateshattrick]

One reason I think it's declining is there is almost no promotion of the sport. Look at the NBA, every other commercial I've seen lately on ESPN advertises the NBA playoffs. From what I've heard from some people is if you go to a game, you're hooked. It's a great sport (as we all know) and if people can get exposed to the more of the game other than the gooning (let's be honest...only time hockey will lead SC is if there's an "incident" or the Stanley Cup has been won), there's a better possiblity of it becoming more popular. I also think if you make it more like the college game (no red line) it will increase in popularity as well. And, as much as I'd like to keep it on NHL size ice...Olympic ice will open the game much more, adding more offense, or at the very least some great moves for the highlight reel

I agree with everything you state, but you are overlooking one of the most important reasons for the decline of hockey as a major sport---the fighting and cheap play. If you ask any casual hockey fan or fan of other sports, the reason they say they cannot watch the NHL is because of the constant fighting and cheap play. It may be overstated, but if you watch ESPN highlights, they constantly glorify the fighting and show highlight clips of fights. Even the announcers, particularly former players and coaches like Barry Melrose, Don Cherry, Bill Clement, etc., glorify this aspect by talking about how much they respect a player because of their "toughness", penalty minutes, etc. This type of behavior is not tolerated in any other contact sport other than boxing. The game needs to eliminate that from the game like college hockey (college hockey fights are now very rare).

Regardless of how you feel about fighting (many feel it is necessary to protect the stars), the game will never be taken seriously by other than us true hockey fans until the fighting and goon play is eliminated.

[#1siouxfan22]

I think there's no need for the cheap play but sometimes fighting is needed. for example Igilna fought once in every series this far and it has helped his team turn it around after that loss.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

skates...most of the casual hockey fans I know watch hockey for the fighting. Some of them became huge fans of the game as it grew on them. Cheap play is not needed, the NHL needs to hand out consistant punishment and keep it under control, that's where I think they've gone wrong.

A fight once in a while is fine, but there are starting to be more than I'd like to see in a game. I may be going out on a limb, but the trap and recent clutch and grab goon crap may have something to do with it. Players are getting frustrated and as a result are taking it out on the nearest opponent. If the game opens up more, and players are allowed to showcase their talent...I think fighting will be down.

[redwing77]

One reason I think it's declining is there is almost no promotion of the sport. Look at the NBA, every other commercial I've seen lately on ESPN advertises the NBA playoffs. From what I've heard from some people is if you go to a game, you're hooked. It's a great sport (as we all know) and if people can get exposed to the more of the game other than the gooning (let's be honest...only time hockey will lead SC is if there's an "incident" or the Stanley Cup has been won), there's a better possiblity of it becoming more popular. I also think if you make it more like the college game (no red line) it will increase in popularity as well. And, as much as I'd like to keep it on NHL size ice...Olympic ice will open the game much more, adding more offense, or at the very least some great moves for the highlight reel

Therein lies the problem. It's exactly as you and I said: ESPN is basketball.

FSN is where Minnesota Fans come first.

ESPN is where basketball fans come first, then east coast.

It should surprise no one that there is no promotion of hockey on ESPN because hockey gets "good" right about the time the NBA regular season is running down, March Madness, and the beginning of the baseball season (which means heavy on BoSox and Yankees coverage). Hockey? Who cares about hockey?

[Goon]

Most of us that are rabbid hockey fans know that hockey is a reginal sport. I have no problem with that. Nor do I want hockey to be dumbed down so the folks in the non hockey regions get it. I like hockey the way it is and wouldn't want it to change that much or at all. I remember when Fox had that stupid glow puck it was a diaster. I emailed Fox and blasted them on their stupid puck. One problem for hockey is that it grew too fast in areas that weren't really hockey hot beds.

[pimpinainteasy]

Hockey will always be my number one sport!

Terrible, terrible, terrible. You'll be the only one too. ESPN had better ratings for the Pro Bowling Association's Odor Eater's Open then for Game 6 of the Philadelphia-Tampa Bay series. I love hockey to but you just have to face that its fallen off the face of obscurity in this country. With the impending lockout people wont care who wins this year, they'll be happy to see it go. Hockey hasnt been a major sport in this country since teams have averaged less than 3.5 goals a game. People like action they'd rather watch an 104-97 NBA playoff game or a 35-31 NFL game then watch a 1-0 3 ot game in the NHL.

[CVCL]

Waa, Waa, Waa. Hockey has never been a major sport in everyone's minds. Those of you who fooled yourselves into believing that one, deserve the heart-ache you get. Move to the socialist northland.

Those of you who think hockey is going away altogether and compare ratings with other lesser sports, you have about as much vision as a two dollar whore.

Wake up. The masses are fickle. All the sports have seen their times of creshendo.

Dont' believe the hype, it's a sequel.

I love my hockey, you love yours.

Yellow jacket, green jacket. Who gives a sh*t?

[izzi6]

Waa, Waa, Waa. Hockey has never been a major sport in everyone's minds. Those of you who fooled yourselves into believing that one, deserve the heart-ache you get. Move to the socialist northland.

Those of you who think hockey is going away altogether and compare ratings with other lesser sports, you have about as much vision as a two dollar whore.

Wake up. The masses are fickle. All the sports have seen their times of creshendo.

Dont' believe the hype, it's a sequel.

I love my hockey, you love yours.

Yellow jacket, green jacket. Who gives a sh*t?

Nicely put.

[Smoggy]

I don't think I want to see them go to Olympic. I think it's too big, but they should widen the rink. It takes most of the big hits out of the sport. Hockey is a physical game and that is why the casual fan that loves football will watch. The fighting has gotten ridiculous, but the brawls are fun. The only reason I might watch a lap of racing is for a wreck. Violence is in. Just watch the news (anywhere but ND).

The biggest complaint I hear from people in Cali is that they can't follow the puck. Hopefully HDTV will help.

Enforce the rules, and take out the red line.