Arbor Park

[Teeder11]

4 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

So you mean people who's livelihood (business owners) or quality of life (current residents) that would most directly be affected by what happens to the park are in favor of developing it? Seems like a good reason to "Vote No to Grow".

Maybe, maybe not on saving Amazing Grains, but there is absolutely zero argument that those extra people would have helped them out.

And as they change their business model from a natural foods supermarket to a proposed eatery (presumably downtown)... these extra bodies within walking distance could help in the future.

[Siouxperfan7]

Arbor Park is not a park.  It is a vacant lot where there is a cute little archway , a couple paths,  and trees and bushes were planted in the interim before a business came in to develop there.  Are people actually going there to spend time and hangout?  Besides the occasional photo engagement photo and Senior picture photo sessions that take place there, how much is it actually used?  The city needs to encourage downtown development.  There is plenty of green space near downtown.  This half block of "park" being gone is not going to take away from that.

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

Arbor Park is not a park.  It is a vacant lot where there is a cute little archway , a couple paths,  and trees and bushes were planted in the interim before a business came in to develop there.  Are people actually going there to spend time and hangout?  Besides the occasional photo engagement photo and Senior picture photo sessions that take place there, how much is it actually used?  The city needs to encourage downtown development.  There is plenty of green space near downtown.  This half block of "park" being gone is not going to take away from that.

Arbor park is fantastic as are the other pocket parks. We should hold on to the others but this opportunity with Arbor Park is too good to pass up. These are the types of projects that Grand Forks needs to embrace if we want to compete with other cities to keep talented young people around and attract a talented work force for new innovative businesses. People tend to be reactionary with most everything in life, we would benefit from embracing a little vision from time to time. 

[Cratter]

13 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

We should hold on to the others but this opportunity with Arbor Park is too good to pass up. 

It's only a matter of time before the others too.

[Cratter]

Can we sell Town Square downtown to the highest bidder?

[fightingsioux4life]

9 minutes ago, Cratter said:

It's only a matter of time before the others too.

Careful, or jdub27 will accuse you of "hyperbole".

I don't have a personal stake in this at all. I just wanted to make an alternative argument to the ones being made on here.

[GForks]

I don't normally post, but couldn't refrain, so here goes:

I work downtown, however the business I work for is not retail nor does it rely on foot traffic downtown. Therefore, I really don't have any skin in the game as far as this benefitting me or not. I even recently had family pictures taken in Arbor Park, so I certainly appreciate what it brings to the table. 

Taking into account the above, I cannot fathom the city letting this opportunity pass by. This is a park that is RARELY used for really anything. Yes, as I said, lots of people use it for backdrops for pictures. But there are other places I could go, no problem. We have farmers market every Saturday morning in the summer, Arbor Park sits empty. We have big events such as artfest, Arbor Park sits empty. We have a park that is bigger than Central Park in New York City a couple blocks away. That park has shelters, a path, acres upon acres of green space to use for whatever you want. All the while, nothing happens in Arbor Park. My opinion on this matter would be totally different if I ever saw more than a couple people using Arbor Park for any purpose. To me, this feels very much like the women's hockey issue. They averaged only a couple hundred fans at each game, but then when they get cut, thousands of people were screaming that it was wrong. If those people actually supported the program, it would have been a different story. If everyone who wants to save Arbor Park actually used it ever, this would be an entirely different discussion.

The effect on property tax savings to me is irrelevant. Dollar amount wise, it doesn't matter to the individual citizens. What does matter is that there are $20,000-$25,000 of maintenance costs that the city doesn't have to spend to maintain a rarely used park, and instead can be put to a different, hopefully better, use. If Arbor Park is developed, there will be thousands upon thousands in new property tax revenue to the city once the tax breaks are up. Again, this is money that can be used to further better our city.

Some people view downtown as unimportant or just a place to avoid because it is just a place for younger people to go get drunk. While bars are inevitably a part of downtown, why can't we continue to keep bringing new things in that get people excited about the prospect of going downtown with their families and spending the afternoon walking around. Spend a weekday walking around our downtown. Then, go spend a weekday walking around Fargo's downtown. It is incredible how much better theirs is. They have all sorts of restaurants of different types. They have tons of shopping. The sidewalks are bustling with people of all ages, genders, and races. Downtown is a true destination in Fargo. I don't think the same can be said for Grand Forks in its current state. Think about all that have been added in the last few years. Boutique shops, a bakery, a pharmacy, a brewery, another brewery on the way. Those are great things. New business brings new foot traffic, which helps those new businesses thrive and stay around.

I am glad there are a group of individuals in town that are strongly pushing a great downtown, and actually, a great city overall. They have had some wonderful ideas. For example, the City just won a grant to turn the bike path on the Greenway into a 2 mile long skating path during the winter. How cool is that?! You can take your family for a skate starting this winter. Innovative thinking gets younger people excited about wanting to live in Grand Forks. The future of Grand Forks is directly affected by the ability to attract and retain new residents. Maintaining status quo will not get people excited about moving to Grand Forks or staying in Grand Forks.

The fact that the pro-park crowd refused to accept an invitation to a debate is pretty telling to me. That is your chance to spread your message on why the park should stay. If your argument is strong enough, it doesn't matter who moderates the debate. If your best argument is "there are tons of other places to develop", that is a pretty weak argument. I want to know why we shouldn't develop right here, where we have someone waiting to pump millions into the local economy. Yes they would be willing to develop elsewhere. But they want to develop right here, so if there isn't a good reason not to, then let's get on with it.

All of the above are why I will be voting "No" on June 20.

[Cratter]

14 minutes ago, GForks said:

Spend a weekday walking around our downtown. 

....Wishing there was a cool park to take a picture at and enjoy a lunch outside.

Saw a youtube video a year ago of a couple young gals from Fargo that came to GF for the day. They really enjoyed Arbor Park. 

 

[GForks]

2 minutes ago, Cratter said:

....Wishing there was a cool park to take a picture at and enjoy a lunch outside.

Saw a youtube video a year ago of a couple young gals from Fargo that came to GF for the day. They really enjoyed Arbor Park. 

 

It's too bad we don't have town square a block away, the river/walking paths/riverbanks another block away, and the Greenway a couple blocks the other way to do exactly what you just mentioned.

[Cratter]

2 minutes ago, GForks said:

It's too bad we don't have town square a block away, the river/walking paths/riverbanks another block away, and the Greenway a couple blocks the other way to do exactly what you just mentioned.

Town square is an ugly concrete jungle. The green way is a Prarie with a sidewalk that is too far to walk to for the millenials.

[UND-1]

7 minutes ago, GForks said:

It's too bad we don't have town square a block away, the river/walking paths/riverbanks another block away, and the Greenway a couple blocks the other way to do exactly what you just mentioned.

You don't have any skin in the game but you decided to write 2000 words in support of the project. Interesting.

[GForks]

2 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

You don't have any skin in the game but you decided to write 2000 words in support of the project. Interesting.

I guess in that case my skin in the game is that I live in Grand Forks and want what I feel is best for my town.

[GForks]

7 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Town square is an ugly concrete jungle. The green way is a Prarie with a sidewalk that is too far to walk to for the millenials.

That's rich considering it's generally not millenials who complain that they have to park a block or more away from where they want to go downtown.

[geaux_sioux]

50 minutes ago, Cratter said:

It's only a matter of time before the others too.

Its really not. It would be far more expensive and less fruitful to build over the other pocket parks with the exception of the one on the corner which needs to go anyway.  The buildings neighboring the others have windows facing the park and egress exits going in to them. That creates a nightmare for planning a building in those spots.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Grand Forks and/or North Dakota needing more 'green space' and comparing it to New York City/Central Park is pretty dang funny... the whole damn state is green space. We need development and growth with investments in projects such as this. 

I'd suggest the awesome Greenway which is a couple blocks away(and runs for about 6 continuous miles) as Arbor Park faithfuls' alternative choice. If that's not enough you could even cross the river to EGF for several more miles(however not as well maintained).

[geaux_sioux]

15 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Town square is an ugly concrete jungle. The green way is a Prarie with a sidewalk that is too far to walk to for the millenials.

I agree with you here.  It's cool to have but I dont see why it needs to be all concrete. The stage sure, but everyone enjoys grass more than concrete. Greenspace is always important. You're stretching pretty hard on the green way though. I see plenty of whippersnappers all over the greenway with their fixed gear bikes and man buns. 

[geaux_sioux]

27 minutes ago, Cratter said:

....Wishing there was a cool park to take a picture at and enjoy a lunch outside.

Saw a youtube video a year ago of a couple young gals from Fargo that came to GF for the day. They really enjoyed Arbor Park. 

 

The photographer who took pics at my wedding absolutely loved downtown Grand Forks. He is from Fargo and wishes they had pocket parks like we do. We must keep the others but the corner park and part of Arbor park would be better served with a building.

[Cratter]

31 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

The buildings neighboring the others have windows facing the park and egress exits going in to them.

Sounds like the Minneapolis dt building I use to live in. Window had a nice view of the neighbors wall. And it was a new building.

[Siouxperfan7]

I think more people have been to a UND Womens hockey game in the last year than have been to Arbor Park.   (Too soon?) 

[SIOUXFAN97]

6 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Arbor park is fantastic as are the other pocket parks. We should hold on to the others but this opportunity with Arbor Park is too good to pass up. These are the types of projects that Grand Forks needs to embrace if we want to compete with other cities to keep talented young people around and attract a talented work force for new innovative businesses. People tend to be reactionary with most everything in life, we would benefit from embracing a little vision from time to time. 

 the other pocket parks are junk...

[Hawks In Socks]

17 hours ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Grand Forks and/or North Dakota needing more 'green space' and comparing it to New York City/Central Park is pretty dang funny... the whole damn state is green space. We need development and growth with investments in projects such as this. 

I'd suggest the awesome Greenway which is a couple blocks away(and runs for about 6 continuous miles) as Arbor Park faithfuls' alternative choice. If that's not enough you could even cross the river to EGF for several more miles(however not as well maintained).

I agree with you there. What makes central park so special is the dense concentration of population and development surrounding it and, consequently, its active use. Without the surrounding development and activity, central park would just be like any other unused natural area. 

Grand Forks has plenty of green space. What's missing from this equation is the development to support it.

[GForks]

Let's not forget that the Empire Arts Center board of directors unanimously voted to support development there. The Empire ARTS Center did.

[jdub27]

14 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

 the other pocket parks are junk...

Based on what?

[Siouxperfan7]

Just now, jdub27 said:

Based on what?

Feelings and emotion.  Don't you know that trumps facts now days?!! 

[Siouxphan27]

If I ever reach a state of boredom in my life where I somehow can't keep myself entertained if there's one less tiny park in downtown Grand Forks, you all have permission to shoot me.