The Great Debate: CHL vs NCAA

[brianvf]

15 minutes ago, KTF said:

I understand this is a pro NCAA board and all but some of these comments are really out there....London's top line would do "some damage" but hey they wouldn't dominate in the mighty NCAA right? Well Tkachuk and Dvorak were the top forwards for the U.S, along with Mathews, at the recent WJC...but yeah I know, I'm sure you all believe that even the WJC is a touch below the vaunted NCAA and their tough bruising style with there massive 25 year old Dmen who would crush those puny 18 year old Finns and Canucks...except that this U.S. U-20 team featured two of the best forwards from NoDak who shockingly were behind the depth chart of the top two players from London. How is that possible?!?!?!? 

Link to the Bronze medal line up http://www.worldjunior2016.com/en/games/2016-01-05/SWE-vs-USA/#lineup-tab

Umm clearly London's top line would do as much and probably more damage then NoDak's top line did in the NCAA

I didn't realize that hockey was a one line game. 
What about the depth of the next 3 lines or the d-corps?

If London and UND played, Berry would put the heavy line against the Tkuchuk line to shut them down much like they did against the Connor line from UM and the Heinen line from DU.  Tkuckuk would be ticked about the lack of space...he's used to just being free to dangle around the offensive zone...and take some sweet penalties.  Stecher would then blast a couple one-timers on the PP to put London down by two entering the 2nd period.   

The CBS line would destroy whatever 16/17 year old kids they got matched up against on the 2nd or 3rd line and UND wins by 4+. 

[KTF]

6 hours ago, tho0505 said:

I rooted for London all year long, solid team and will have a bunch of NHLers on the roster.  As for them beating the Sioux, not going to happen.  I watched two of their games in the Memorial Cup (best of the best) and the pace and flow compared to an NCAA tournament game is completely different. The lack of physicality and excessive time and space is clear. You're not going to see a team get beat 9-1 in the Frozen Four.   

 

I saw far more time and space in NoDaks 5-1 win over Quinnipiac than I did in London's 3-2 OT win over Rouyn-Noranda

[OshieRoll]

30 minutes ago, KTF said:

I understand this is a pro NCAA board and all but some of these comments are really out there....London's top line would do "some damage" but hey they wouldn't dominate in the mighty NCAA right? Well Tkachuk and Dvorak were the top forwards for the U.S, along with Mathews, at the recent WJC...but yeah I know, I'm sure you all believe that even the WJC is a touch below the vaunted NCAA and their tough bruising style with there massive 25 year old Dmen who would crush those puny 18 year old Finns and Canucks...except that this U.S. U-20 team featured two of the best forwards from NoDak who shockingly were behind the depth chart of the top two players from London. How is that possible?!?!?!? 

Link to the Bronze medal line up http://www.worldjunior2016.com/en/games/2016-01-05/SWE-vs-USA/#lineup-tab

Umm clearly London's top line would do as much and probably more damage then NoDak's top line did in the NCAA

If you don't think players develop in those 3-4 or however many years you are flat-out nuts (see: Stecher, Troy or Caggiula, Drake).

[KTF]

20 minutes ago, brianvf said:

I didn't realize that hockey was a one line game. 
What about the depth of the next 3 lines or the d-corps?

If London and UND played, Berry would put the heavy line against the Tkuchuk line to shut them down much like they did against the Connor line from UM and the Heinen line from DU.  Tkuckuk would be ticked about the lack of space...he's used to just being free to dangle around the offensive zone...and take some sweet penalties.  Stecher would then blast a couple one-timers on the PP to put London down by two entering the 2nd period.   

The CBS line would destroy whatever 16/17 year old kids they got matched up against on the 2nd or 3rd line and UND wins by 4+. 

London's 2nd Line RW Berisha (21 year old 5'10 190) C Cliff Pu (ranked 75th by NHL CSS likely 3rd round pick in 2016 draft, possible 2nd, listed as 6'1 188) LW Daniel Bernhardt (20 year old 6'3 194 NHL 4th round pick)

London's 3rd Line RW JJ Piccinich  (19 year old 4th round NHL pick 6' 185) C Owen MacDonald  (20 year old 5'9 180) LW Max Jones (17 year old 6'3 200lbs ranked 14th over-all by NHL CSS and a sure fire 1st round pick)

 

No way these two lines get dominated by anyone...there are no 16/17 year old 5'10 155 lbs weaklings here

 

[Cratter]

CHL continues to produce less and less NHL talent while more and more attend college hockey. 

Between college hockey players now getting paid, along with the NHL knowing the way to increase its market is to market its former college hockey players; the CHL feels threatened. 

[scpa0305]

1 hour ago, KTF said:

I understand this is a pro NCAA board and all but some of these comments are really out there....London's top line would do "some damage" but hey they wouldn't dominate in the mighty NCAA right? Well Tkachuk and Dvorak were the top forwards for the U.S, along with Mathews, at the recent WJC...but yeah I know, I'm sure you all believe that even the WJC is a touch below the vaunted NCAA and their tough bruising style with there massive 25 year old Dmen who would crush those puny 18 year old Finns and Canucks...except that this U.S. U-20 team featured two of the best forwards from NoDak who shockingly were behind the depth chart of the top two players from London. How is that possible?!?!?!? 

Link to the Bronze medal line up http://www.worldjunior2016.com/en/games/2016-01-05/SWE-vs-USA/#lineup-tab

Umm clearly London's top line would do as much and probably more damage then NoDak's top line did in the NCAA

 

 

I actually think their top line would be one of the best NCAA lines, my some damage was tongue in cheek. in regards to your other post, about their lineup, u had two former NCAA busts.

[KTF]

46 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

I actually think their top line would be one of the best NCAA lines, my some damage was tongue in cheek. in regards to your other post, about their lineup, u had two former NCAA busts.

Pretty harsh to say Piccinich  was a bust since you really don't know how he would have did on B.U.s team as a sophmore this year if he did not leave...I mean I'm not quite sure what the deal was with John Simonson freshman season where he only played 22 games and registered 5pts but he did manage to play in all the games this year and tripled his point totals. Even Chyzyk didn't have the best freshman season did he? Also scouts some something in Piccinich to make him a 4th round NHL pick.

Explain more about the second NCAA bust?

 

[scpa0305]

49 minutes ago, KTF said:

Pretty harsh to say Piccinich  was a bust since you really don't know how he would have did on B.U.s team as a sophmore this year if he did not leave...I mean I'm not quite sure what the deal was with John Simonson freshman season where he only played 22 games and registered 5pts but he did manage to play in all the games this year and tripled his point totals. Even Chyzyk didn't have the best freshman season did he? Also scouts some something in Piccinich to make him a 4th round NHL pick.

Explain more about the second NCAA bust?

 

you're comparing him to two undrafted players. Anyways I'm done with this pointless argument. I am a fan of both leagues...but still say UND wins 7 or 8 games out of ten games against London. Our D core alone would be way way too much to handle. Shaw would put up good number in that league, and that is not a knock on Shaw. I'm just saying.

[KTF]

20 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

you're comparing him to two undrafted players. Anyways I'm done with this pointless argument. I am a fan of both leagues...but still say UND wins 7 or 8 games out of ten games against London. Our D core alone would be way way too much to handle. Shaw would put up good number in that league, and that is not a knock on Shaw. I'm just saying.

I was comparing him to two players on your own team that had rather difficult freshman seasons yet came back to be regular contributors during their sophomore campaigns. Chyzyk and Simonson are not considered busts so why should Piccinich?? And who exactly is the second NCAA "bust" on London's roster??

Believe what you want about your Dcore being too much to handle but that is only your opinion, I don't see how they would manhandle the London Knights as so many of you hope they would.

I think I've more than proven that age isn't everything. You can make all the excuses you want about exhibition games but there is no way that any college program takes the NTDP lightly and treats it as a no show game. The NTDP has shown time and time again that a bunch of 16 and 17 year old high school seniors can go up against players 5 to 6 years their senior and compete. If exhibition games are meaningless and do not tell us anything then I suppose the Canadian CIS teams are just as good as NCAA clubs..

Many of you here dismissed London's talent saying they had no depth but their top line would have easily been the top line on any college hockey team including North Dakota. Their second and third lines could easily have handled playing and thriving in the NCAA. Some posters have tried to claim that London's defense is weak. Tell me, who on NoDak's vaunted defense has the talent and skill as a Olli Juolevi? The young (18 year old weakling as so many of you like to describe CHL players) stud is a sure fire top 10 pick in this year's draft and will most likely crack a NHL roster in four months time. You think a young 18 year old Dman like Mattinen would struggle against NoDak and other NCAA competition simply because of age? The kid is talented enough to be drafted this year (ranked 139) and has the size and strength to compete against any grown man in college hockey. He stands at 6'3 and weighs in at 230, and he's quite mobile and has a cannon of a shot. Oh by the way, this player is on the bottom pairing on the Knights Defense roster.  Victor Mete, there other youngster had full ride scholarship offers from B.U., Notre Dame and Michigan and stands an excellent chance of being a late 2nd/high 3rd NHL pick this summer. If he were American he easily would have been on the NTDP, you know that team that plays against D-1 teams and actually wins some games...

[brianvf]

I'm not sure why you're being so persistent with this.  You're on a UND message board trying to convince us that your Knights would take it to the best team that UND has put on the ice in many years.  You're not going to convince us just like we're not going to convince you.
Best of luck to you, good sir.

[Benny Baker]

4 hours ago, KTF said:

I understand this is a pro NCAA board and all but some of these comments are really out there....London's top line would do "some damage" but hey they wouldn't dominate in the mighty NCAA right? Well Tkachuk and Dvorak were the top forwards for the U.S, along with Mathews, at the recent WJC...but yeah I know, I'm sure you all believe that even the WJC is a touch below the vaunted NCAA and their tough bruising style with there massive 25 year old Dmen who would crush those puny 18 year old Finns and Canucks...except that this U.S. U-20 team featured two of the best forwards from NoDak who shockingly were behind the depth chart of the top two players from London. How is that possible?!?!?!? 

Link to the Bronze medal line up http://www.worldjunior2016.com/en/games/2016-01-05/SWE-vs-USA/#lineup-tab

Umm clearly London's top line would do as much and probably more damage then NoDak's top line did in the NCAA

Bravo!  Your argument that the CHL is better than the NCAA has now digressed to merely pointing out that two London Knights players were on two separate lines, which did not include any North Dakota players, at a brief international hockey tournament between 10 countries.  Next time, try to stay on point, please.  Thank you.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I say UND wins 11 out of 10 then the Knights fold their organization and pledge allegiance to UND hockey. Go ahead... prove me wrong

[KTF]

36 minutes ago, brianvf said:

I'm not sure why you're being so persistent with this.  You're on a UND message board trying to convince us that your Knights would take it to the best team that UND has put on the ice in many years.  You're not going to convince us just like we're not going to convince you.
Best of luck to you, good sir.

I understand I will never convince any NoDak fan otherwise, but I will correct the many misconceptions college hockey fans have of the CHL, the first being that the league is comprised of mainly a single talented but very young line of 16/17 year olds and a bunch of weak 17 and 18 year old players rounding out the other lines..nothing can be further than the truth and while you may never believe that London would beat NoDak, you at least have to concede that London is a very deep and talented team that would be among the best NCAA D-1 teams. 

[KTF]

32 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

Bravo!  Your argument that the CHL is better than the NCAA has now digressed to merely pointing out that two London Knights players were on two separate lines, which did not include any North Dakota players, at a brief international hockey tournament between 10 countries.  Next time, try to stay on point, please.  Thank you.

Not at all, just that the two London Knights were on the top two lines while the two best NoDak players rounded out the bottom lines.

[Benny Baker]

Just now, KTF said:

Not at all, just that the two London Knights were on the top two lines while the two best NoDak players rounded out the bottom lines.

While I think it's great that you can admit that your comments about one international hockey tournament failed to provide any evidence that the CHL is better than the NCAA, I'll reiterate my earlier suggestion as a friendly reminder: please try to stay on point.  The US U-20 team is not a CHL team.

[tho0505]

4 hours ago, KTF said:

 

I saw far more time and space in NoDaks 5-1 win over Quinnipiac than I did in London's 3-2 OT win over Rouyn-Noranda

I disagree completely. It was a great game, but after the top line and a half of each team there was a huge talent gap.  Back and forth setting up plays and easy breakouts and transitions.   Again, comparing the two leagues is apples to oranges; it just doesn't work.  

[UNDBIZ]

17 minutes ago, KTF said:

I understand I will never convince any NoDak fan otherwise, but I will correct the many misconceptions college hockey fans have of the CHL, the first being that the league is comprised of mainly a single talented but very young line of 16/17 year olds and a bunch of weak 17 and 18 year old players rounding out the other lines..nothing can be further than the truth and while you may never believe that London would beat NoDak, you at least have to concede that London is a very deep and talented team that would be among the best NCAA D-1 teams. 

CHL is comprised of wimpy little weaklings. London might be able to compete in the B1G against the other high potential 19 year olds, but that's it. Western Michigan and the rest of the NCHC would put a beat on them so bad they'd hang up their skates for good. You've changed my mind, UND wins 10 of 10 games, all by double digits. 

[Cratter]

21 minutes ago, KTF said:

 London would beat NoDak, you at least have to concede that London is a very deep and talented team that would be among the best NCAA D-1 teams. 

Anyone can beat anyone. UND won the championship, yet lost hockey games to very subpar competition (cough wisconsin cough) despite only losing a handful of games.

And to turn it around UND could win games against AHL. Don't see why not. Chemistry plays a big role in hockey. And the best teams don't always win.

And to turn it around again the top team in the USHL would probably also be competitive with the best of major junior hockey teams...

 

[Cratter]

If you want to play for a Championship in front of 7,000 fans in Red Deer, Alberta go to CHL.

If you want to play for a Championship in front of 19,000 fans in an NHL arena choose NCAA.

[stoneySIOUX]

2 hours ago, KTF said:

I was comparing him to two players on your own team that had rather difficult freshman seasons yet came back to be regular contributors during their sophomore campaigns. Chyzyk and Simonson are not considered busts so why should Piccinich?? And who exactly is the second NCAA "bust" on London's roster??

Believe what you want about your Dcore being too much to handle but that is only your opinion, I don't see how they would manhandle the London Knights as so many of you hope they would.

I think I've more than proven that age isn't everything. You can make all the excuses you want about exhibition games but there is no way that any college program takes the NTDP lightly and treats it as a no show game. The NTDP has shown time and time again that a bunch of 16 and 17 year old high school seniors can go up against players 5 to 6 years their senior and compete. If exhibition games are meaningless and do not tell us anything then I suppose the Canadian CIS teams are just as good as NCAA clubs..

Many of you here dismissed London's talent saying they had no depth but their top line would have easily been the top line on any college hockey team including North Dakota. Their second and third lines could easily have handled playing and thriving in the NCAA. Some posters have tried to claim that London's defense is weak. Tell me, who on NoDak's vaunted defense has the talent and skill as a Olli Juolevi? The young (18 year old weakling as so many of you like to describe CHL players) stud is a sure fire top 10 pick in this year's draft and will most likely crack a NHL roster in four months time. You think a young 18 year old Dman like Mattinen would struggle against NoDak and other NCAA competition simply because of age? The kid is talented enough to be drafted this year (ranked 139) and has the size and strength to compete against any grown man in college hockey. He stands at 6'3 and weighs in at 230, and he's quite mobile and has a cannon of a shot. Oh by the way, this player is on the bottom pairing on the Knights Defense roster.  Victor Mete, there other youngster had full ride scholarship offers from B.U., Notre Dame and Michigan and stands an excellent chance of being a late 2nd/high 3rd NHL pick this summer. If he were American he easily would have been on the NTDP, you know that team that plays against D-1 teams and actually wins some games...

70 lines of adorable, right there.

[Vegas_Sioux]

Everyone is forgets the big thing, sure the kids get paid in the chl but is in cad (for the most part) so that 30k contract is only worth aprox. 19000 usd right now. 

[yzerman19]

45 minutes ago, Vegas_Sioux said:

Everyone is forgets the big thing, sure the kids get paid in the chl but is in cad (for the most part) so that 30k contract is only worth aprox. 19000 usd right now. 

The bigger deal with getting paid in the CHL is signing your NHL contract at 18 and collecting your signing bonus.

I watched a lot of WHL this year, and its great hockey.  No doubt about it.  

The CHL usually draws the most gifted offensive talent, and they can display it in the style of game that is more like that played in the NHL.

[KTF]

7 hours ago, Benny Baker said:

While I think it's great that you can admit that your comments about one international hockey tournament failed to provide any evidence that the CHL is better than the NCAA, I'll reiterate my earlier suggestion as a friendly reminder: please try to stay on point.  The US U-20 team is not a CHL team.

The assertion made was that London's top line was a cut below that of NoDaks but the best two London players, when placed together with the two best NoDak ones, proved to be better.

[KTF]

6 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

70 lines of adorable, right there.

Ahh thanks hon...

[DamStrait]

11 hours ago, KTF said:

I was comparing him to two players on your own team that had rather difficult freshman seasons yet came back to be regular contributors during their sophomore campaigns. Chyzyk and Simonson are not considered busts so why should Piccinich?? And who exactly is the second NCAA "bust" on London's roster??

Believe what you want about your Dcore being too much to handle but that is only your opinion, I don't see how they would manhandle the London Knights as so many of you hope they would.

I think I've more than proven that age isn't everything. You can make all the excuses you want about exhibition games but there is no way that any college program takes the NTDP lightly and treats it as a no show game. The NTDP has shown time and time again that a bunch of 16 and 17 year old high school seniors can go up against players 5 to 6 years their senior and compete. If exhibition games are meaningless and do not tell us anything then I suppose the Canadian CIS teams are just as good as NCAA clubs..

Many of you here dismissed London's talent saying they had no depth but their top line would have easily been the top line on any college hockey team including North Dakota. Their second and third lines could easily have handled playing and thriving in the NCAA. Some posters have tried to claim that London's defense is weak. Tell me, who on NoDak's vaunted defense has the talent and skill as a Olli Juolevi? The young (18 year old weakling as so many of you like to describe CHL players) stud is a sure fire top 10 pick in this year's draft and will most likely crack a NHL roster in four months time. You think a young 18 year old Dman like Mattinen would struggle against NoDak and other NCAA competition simply because of age? The kid is talented enough to be drafted this year (ranked 139) and has the size and strength to compete against any grown man in college hockey. He stands at 6'3 and weighs in at 230, and he's quite mobile and has a cannon of a shot. Oh by the way, this player is on the bottom pairing on the Knights Defense roster.  Victor Mete, there other youngster had full ride scholarship offers from B.U., Notre Dame and Michigan and stands an excellent chance of being a late 2nd/high 3rd NHL pick this summer. If he were American he easily would have been on the NTDP, you know that team that plays against D-1 teams and actually wins some games...

All you've proven is that you're a butt-hurt MJ apologist, that hasn't enough sense to deliver your self-proclaimed "pearls of wisdom" elsewhere.