The Great Debate: CHL vs NCAA

[yzerman19]

At what age and at what development level does it make sense to commit and show up.

[yzerman19]

So there is a lot of debate on this.  I watch a ton of both NCAA and WHL hockey.  What is the right choice given the options and benefits on the table and where should an elite prospect go?

Pro NCAA:  Develop at a pace that allows your physical body to match your hockey skill.  Develop vs men.  Earn a college degree in process that will be hard, but will set you up for a life after hockey.  Co-eds.  Co-eds. Co-eds.  Solid path to NHL if you've got it.  

Pro CHL:  Play an NHL type schedule and game.  Get $ for college after hockey is done via CHL scholarship.  Not have to do homework.  Be a local hero and destroy local talent.  Showcase your skill.  Still the most likely path to NHL.  Get your signing bonuses the minute offered and put them in the bank.

 

[yzerman19]

If my son becomes elite (he's five) so lots of time- although he does get mad everytime he doesn't score a hattrick vs 7/8 year olds- I will advise to play in the BCHL or USHL and go NCAA. 

[Redneksioux]

CHL puts more players into the NHL. 

Though I'd put this year's und team up against any chl team;)

[KTF]

Well after just watching the Memorial Cup final, it would be a heck of a game between NoDak and that London Knights team. Both solid teams dripping with talent but I daresay I think the slight edge would go to London.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

18 minutes ago, KTF said:

Well after just watching the Memorial Cup final, it would be a heck of a game between NoDak and that London Knights team. Both solid teams dripping with talent but I daresay I think the slight edge would go to London.

That's like... your opinion man

[brianvf]

London wouldn't be able to handle UND's defense (both their defensive and offensive play).

[scpa0305]

32 minutes ago, KTF said:

Well after just watching the Memorial Cup final, it would be a heck of a game between NoDak and that London Knights team. Both solid teams dripping with talent but I daresay I think the slight edge would go to London.

unds team would be so much older. London may win, sure. But und would win more often. London had several high end guys but the depth isn't there.

the NTDP would probably beat London. They literally have one line.

[cberkas]

The Pipeline Show was asked the question who would win between UND and Brandon Wheat Kings. They all agreed that UND would win.

[KTF]

10 hours ago, scpa0305 said:

unds team would be so much older. London may win, sure. But und would win more often. London had several high end guys but the depth isn't there.

the NTDP would probably beat London. They literally have one line.

NTDP is a great team, this year they had a winning record against D-1 competition but highly unlikely they beat a London team that features the like of Marner, Dvorak and Tkachuk...as for London having little depth, their roster has 8 drafted NHL players and 8 players currently ranked by the NHL CSS, five of them in the first four rounds and three in the first round. Obviously the depth is there.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

It's hard to fault a kid who grows up in Ontario, Quebec, the Pacific Northwest or any other areas with heavy CHL presence and not much college hockey from going that route.

I only have WHL where I live but don't care for the NASCAR crowd only cheering for the fights, thus nchc.tv is a life saver.  More and more people are saying the college schedule is better for weight training.

Brad is looking like a big homer on Twitter trying to fault the league for one kid signing young.  Academia isn't for everyone.  I'd rather we not get kids on campus who won't attend classes.

[scpa0305]

3 hours ago, KTF said:

NTDP is a great team, this year they had a winning record against D-1 competition but highly unlikely they beat a London team that features the like of Marner, Dvorak and Tkachuk...as for London having little depth, their roster has 8 drafted NHL players and 8 players currently ranked by the NHL CSS, five of them in the first four rounds and three in the first round. Obviously the depth is there.

you're right they are deeper than I had originally thought however the NTDP definitely could beat them. I would guess it would be 50/50.

[KTF]

5 hours ago, scpa0305 said:

you're right they are deeper than I had originally thought however the NTDP definitely could beat them. I would guess it would be 50/50.

I'd say it would be 50/50 between London and NoDak...London would be too much for the NTDP.

[UNDBIZ]

1 hour ago, KTF said:

I'd say it would be 50/50 between London and NoDak...London would be too much for the NTDP.

As someone who only posts here to defend the chl, having that opinion makes sense. 

[yzerman19]

London would beat NTDP.  OHL is stronger than USHL. UND would beat any junior team, just based on age, strength, and experience of players.

I believe the following.

Elite NCAA teams > Elite CHL teams > Elite USHL teams > Elite Canadian Junior A teams

[KTF]

54 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

London would beat NTDP.  OHL is stronger than USHL. UND would beat any junior team, just based on age, strength, and experience of players.

I believe the following.

Elite NCAA teams > Elite CHL teams > Elite USHL teams > Elite Canadian Junior A teams

I don't really consider the NTDP U-18 as a USHL team. They merely use the USHL in order to give the U-17's playing time against older competition. They do not participate in the USHL draft nor do they trade with other USHL clubs and they often times do not even honor the commitments made by some players to specific USHL teams.

Age and experience are important but they are not the only factors to consider. If they were the NTDP would not have gone 7-5-2 against D-1 teams. A young squad with an average of around 17.5 years more than proves talent can trump age. If a team comprising of high school seniors can give many of the better NCAA squads a game, what makes you think a stacked team like London could not??

[scpa0305]

59 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

London would beat NTDP.  OHL is stronger than USHL. UND would beat any junior team, just based on age, strength, and experience of players.

I believe the following.

Elite NCAA teams > Elite CHL teams > Elite USHL teams > Elite Canadian Junior A teams

the NTDP would easily compete in all chl leagues. They walk through their ushl schedule. Your post makes it sound as though they are just another ushl team.

I'm not a chl hater like many others on this site but I do understand how stacked this years NTDP was (and has been for the past few years).

 

[brianvf]

1 hour ago, KTF said:

If a team comprising of high school seniors can give many of the better NCAA squads a game, what makes you think a stacked team like London could not??

Those games are exhibitions for the NCAA teams, and they play them as such.
Many of the NCAA teams sit their higher end players or guys needing a break/recover from injury.  You'll also see many backup goalies being played and lines experimented with during the games against the NTDP.

I think the NTDP team could play a good series with London.
On the other hand, I think the elite NCAA teams like UND, DU, etc would take care of London pretty consistently...similar to the UND scores against QU, NE, and UM this NCAA tourney.
I don't think London would be prepared for the hard defensive game of the NCAA teams...from the CHL games I've seen it seems very loose and the skilled offensive players are pretty much allowed to do whatever they want.  That wouldn't happen in a game against the NCAA.  Not to mention the age and experience advantage of the NCAA teams.

[yzerman19]

1 hour ago, scpa0305 said:

the NTDP would easily compete in all chl leagues. They walk through their ushl schedule. Your post makes it sound as though they are just another ushl team.

I'm not a chl hater like many others on this site but I do understand how stacked this years NTDP was (and has been for the past few years).

 

Didn't team USA finish dead last in the Eastern Conference of the USHL?  Is that not the NTDP? This is not a knock. The team is under 18 and is focused on development rather than winning games.  This is not a debate on which league or teams have the most talent...the original question was about where to develop, the debate has turned into who has the best team.  

I do not think the NTDP would compete with the elites of the CHL which have over 18ers, many of whom have already signed pro deals...

[Big A HG]

I think it'd be a pretty good game between UND and London.  CHL overall has much more skill than NCAA.  As mentioned numerous times, NCAA has age and strength.  The game has evolved past the physical game to an extent, so I think some of the more skilled CHL teams would fare pretty well in NCAA's.  I think London would have been a tough out in an NCAA tournament with their team they had this year.  If I had to put money on it, I'd slightly lean London over UND personally.

[scpa0305]

12 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

Didn't team USA finish dead last in the Eastern Conference of the USHL?  Is that not the NTDP? This is not a knock. The team is under 18 and is focused on development rather than winning games.  This is not a debate on which league or teams have the most talent...the original question was about where to develop, the debate has turned into who has the best team.  

I do not think the NTDP would compete with the elites of the CHL which have over 18ers, many of whom have already signed pro deals...

That is the U-17 team...not the U18 team.

http://www.usahockeyntdp.com/u18-schedule-results

I had a very knowledgeable hockey guy once break it down for me.  A top NCAA > CHL > USHL > BCHL (obviously in a matchup together not related to developmental reasons b/c obviously the CHL leagues are the top developmental leagues in total).  A top notch BCHL team, most likely, would be an above average team in the USHL (this year's Penticton team probably higher up on that scale).  The best USHL team would complete in a WHL/OHL schedule, probably middle of the pack, and would be a good Q team.  A great CHL team would be a solid NCAA team (this year's London team would probably be higher up on that scale). 

[Benny Baker]

I'll take a 200 lbs, 24-year old Coltyn Sanderson on my third and fourth lines over some 145 lbs, 16-year old, even if that kid has the potential to be drafted in the first three rounds with an illustrious NHL career to follow sometime in the next decade.

[Redneksioux]

I'm wondering when the old rivalry with the WheatKings will be re-kindled and this can be settled on the ice!

[KTF]

14 hours ago, yzerman19 said:

Didn't team USA finish dead last in the Eastern Conference of the USHL?  Is that not the NTDP? This is not a knock. The team is under 18 and is focused on development rather than winning games.  This is not a debate on which league or teams have the most talent...the original question was about where to develop, the debate has turned into who has the best team.  

I do not think the NTDP would compete with the elites of the CHL which have over 18ers, many of whom have already signed pro deals...

The NTDP is split into an U-17 and U-18 team. The U-18's generally win most of the games played against the USHL teams while the U-17s generally have a below .500 record.

 

15 hours ago, brianvf said:

Those games are exhibitions for the NCAA teams, and they play them as such.
Many of the NCAA teams sit their higher end players or guys needing a break/recover from injury.  You'll also see many backup goalies being played and lines experimented with during the games against the NTDP.
 

Just a random look at the game between B.U., a very good to elite hockey program from an elite conference, showed that B.U. played their very best players (and started their top players) and yet still lost to the U-18s. They may be "exhibition" games but as you know, in college where few games are played, even exhibition ones are treated as the real deal. The reality is that this year's NTDP was a solid squad and did well against D-1 competition despite the players being several years younger. Yes you had that "16" year old "lightweight" go up against that "behemoth" 24 year old and the youngster not only survived but prevailed..

 

A uber talented team like London would hold their own against any D-1 program and it would be one hell of a game between them and North Dakota.

[Cratter]

It would also be one hell of a game UND vs some AHL teams.

We could go round and round.