If Big Ten Offers UND Should They Join?

[ArchyAlum11]

On 2016. 5. 21. at 9:22 AM, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

The conference will likely pay the difference to get one of the programs over the hump.  Nebraska and Iowa will have a rink ready for them in the near future, and Rutgers is a squeaky wheel.

Iowa is not really hockey country, wrestling is the big sport at Iowa after football. Illnois came out after the bigten hockey conferance was announced and said they have no interest what so ever in adding hockey, period. Nebraksa will not add hockey, part of the agreement between Omaha and Lincon is that Omaha would fold its D1 FCS program in exchange Lincon would not add D1 hockey. The only way UND would join the big ten is if it was offered full membership in the bigten, and the Bigten would never do that as they consider and of the dakota schools benieth them.

[JohnboyND7]

9 hours ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

Iowa is not really hockey country, wrestling is the big sport at Iowa after football. Illnois came out after the bigten hockey conferance was announced and said they have no interest what so ever in adding hockey, period. Nebraksa will not add hockey, part of the agreement between Omaha and Lincon is that Omaha would fold its D1 FCS program in exchange Lincon would not add D1 hockey. The only way UND would join the big ten is if it was offered full membership in the bigten, and the Bigten would never do that as they consider and of the dakota schools benieth them.

The Dakota schools are beneath them.  Not even a debate.

[The Sicatoka]

Let's recap:

Full Membership? Pipe dream. Never happening. 

Hockey Affiliate Membership? Worth the conversation if the B1G calls, but it ultimately comes down to ... this. 

[Fetch]

Scientology? 

[The Sicatoka]

1 hour ago, Fetch said:

Scientology? 

No, I don't believe the B1G has a Scientology division or offers conference play in that. 

[ArchyAlum11]

8 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Let's recap:

Full Membership? Pipe dream. Never happening. 

Hockey Affiliate Membership? Worth the conversation if the B1G calls, but it ultimately comes down to ... this. 

I seriously doubt the bigten would ever offer UND anything substantial to be a hockey affiliate. The Big10 hockey conference was just supposed to be a quick and easy cash grab. Take what they viewed as four of the most elite programs in the country and become an instant powerhouse. The fact that they had to add Notre Dame shows how desperate they are, but they were able to get Notre Dame to switch simply because Notre Dame already hated playing in Hockey East. As far as I know UND is quite happy with playing in NCHC.

Tthey might have better luck poaching a member from the WCHA but I doubt any of the schools they would want would go. I'm not sure if the Bigten would have an interest in Ferris State or Bowling Green, Plus with Bowling Green being a FBS school their could be inter-conference issues. I have heard some talk about Michigan Tech but I'm not sure if the Huskies would want the move as the new WCHA is full of Michigan teams, Including Northern Michigan and Lake Superior State which are relativity short bus trips from Huntington. Minnesota State would be another option that I think Minnesota and Wisconsin would like just because of close traveling proximity. However as some one who has worked at for MNSCU I can tell you their is no love lost between MNSCU and the University of Minnesota. the U of M generally has spent the last 50 years trying to keep the State colleges from evolving beyond teaching colleges. I don't expect that Minnesota State, Saint Cloud, or Bemidji will go out of there way to do anything that helps the U of M. There would have to be a lot of back room negotiations to get Minnesota State to leave the WCHA and a lot of money, probably the same for Michigan Tech, tech would probably want more because it is the custodian of the McNaughton Cup and getting Tech would mean that Big10 would have the McNaughton cup as its regular season trophy.

The BG10 is a conference of has-been programs in rapid decline. As I have said before being both a UND alum and Minnesota State Alum I am getting a little bit of Schadenfreude watching the U of M and the big ten struggle and fail. The Bigten is just a bad product and after seeing how few games are actually broadcast on the Bigten network its biggest supposed advantage is dubious at best. Either the BGten needs to make improvement a priority or they need to find a way to make it a quasi independent conference still affiliated with the Bigten but given independence to seek out hockey only members and to not be bound to the bigten network only. However I doubt the BG10 thinks of hockey as a priority in any meaningful way..

[siouxkid12]

11 hours ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

I seriously doubt the bigten would ever offer UND anything substantial to be a hockey affiliate. The Big10 hockey conference was just supposed to be a quick and easy cash grab. Take what they viewed as four of the most elite programs in the country and become an instant powerhouse. The fact that they had to add Notre Dame shows how desperate they are, but they were able to get Notre Dame to switch simply because Notre Dame already hated playing in Hockey East. As far as I know UND is quite happy with playing in NCHC.

Tthey might have better luck poaching a member from the WCHA but I doubt any of the schools they would want would go. I'm not sure if the Bigten would have an interest in Ferris State or Bowling Green, Plus with Bowling Green being a FBS school their could be inter-conference issues. I have heard some talk about Michigan Tech but I'm not sure if the Huskies would want the move as the new WCHA is full of Michigan teams, Including Northern Michigan and Lake Superior State which are relativity short bus trips from Huntington. Minnesota State would be another option that I think Minnesota and Wisconsin would like just because of close traveling proximity. However as some one who has worked at for MNSCU I can tell you their is no love lost between MNSCU and the University of Minnesota. the U of M generally has spent the last 50 years trying to keep the State colleges from evolving beyond teaching colleges. I don't expect that Minnesota State, Saint Cloud, or Bemidji will go out of there way to do anything that helps the U of M. There would have to be a lot of back room negotiations to get Minnesota State to leave the WCHA and a lot of money, probably the same for Michigan Tech, tech would probably want more because it is the custodian of the McNaughton Cup and getting Tech would mean that Big10 would have the McNaughton cup as its regular season trophy.

The BG10 is a conference of has-been programs in rapid decline. As I have said before being both a UND alum and Minnesota State Alum I am getting a little bit of Schadenfreude watching the U of M and the big ten struggle and fail. The Bigten is just a bad product and after seeing how few games are actually broadcast on the Bigten network its biggest supposed advantage is dubious at best. Either the BGten needs to make improvement a priority or they need to find a way to make it a quasi independent conference still affiliated with the Bigten but given independence to seek out hockey only members and to not be bound to the bigten network only. However I doubt the BG10 thinks of hockey as a priority in any meaningful way..

None of those schools you listed from the WCHA would get an invite to the B10, they are in the WCHA for a reason. If the B10 wants to add another team, it will be someone from out East (BU).

[The Sicatoka]

11 hours ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

I seriously doubt the bigten would ever offer UND anything substantial to be a hockey affiliate.

And that's why I said what I said. Unless the offer had clear, obvious, and measurably better results* for UND, it's a non-starter. 

 

*Results just don't mean "straight cash", it means exposure and advertising.

[MafiaMan]

On June 3, 2016 at 8:14 AM, siouxkid12 said:

None of those schools you listed from the WCHA would get an invite to the B10, they are in the WCHA for a reason. If the B10 wants to add another team, it will be someone from out East (BU).

No way BU leaves behind the bus league in Hockey East for the B1G.

[siouxkid12]

19 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

No way BU leaves behind the bus league in Hockey East for the B1G.

I agree with that BU wouldn't leave but they are the only one I could think of that has the credentials that the B10 wants/needs.

[ArchyAlum11]

 

On 4/6/2016 at 7:49 PM, UND1983 said:

Short-sighted.  Most all the teams you listed are D2, low budget teams that would vote to reduce or even if given the chance.  UND is in another class from those programs.  

The Big Ten will turn around, its only a matter of time.  Too many resources not to.

Would vote to reduce? Bowling Green literally saved its program from closing up not long ago, Tech has one of the oldest programs in college hockey,  Minnesota State's arena underwent major modernization and renovation of its facilities. Its safe to say these programs are planning on continuing to play D1 for the long haul. As far as budgets go keep in mind many of these schools have a larger budget than UND. MNSU and UND actually have pretty much the same budget and size. The BG10 as a whole doesn't really care about hockey, Michigan State and Ohio State haven't been good for quite some time and their is very little interest at these schools in hockey, Wisconsin finished the year 3 places in front of lake superior state and the Kohl Center has become a ghost town. Minnesota and Michigan have also had marginal success in post season play. The b10 can recover but its a question of how long it will take, The U of M is resting on past accomplishments at this point, eventually prospects will look to go elsewhere if the U of M can't recover.

[UNDBIZ]

2 hours ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

 

Would vote to reduce? Bowling Green literally saved its program from closing up not long ago, Tech has one of the oldest programs in college hockey,  Minnesota State's arena underwent major modernization and renovation of its facilities. Its safe to say these programs are planning on continuing to play D1 for the long haul. As far as budgets go keep in mind many of these schools have a larger budget than UND. MNSU and UND actually have pretty much the same budget and size. The BG10 as a whole doesn't really care about hockey, Michigan State and Ohio State haven't been good for quite some time and their is very little interest at these schools in hockey, Wisconsin finished the year 3 places in front of lake superior state and the Kohl Center has become a ghost town. Minnesota and Michigan have also had marginal success in post season play. The b10 can recover but its a question of how long it will take, The U of M is resting on past accomplishments at this point, eventually prospects will look to go elsewhere if the U of M can't recover.

What are the MnSU and UND hockey budgets?

[siouxkid12]

3 hours ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

 

Would vote to reduce? Bowling Green literally saved its program from closing up not long ago, Tech has one of the oldest programs in college hockey,  Minnesota State's arena underwent major modernization and renovation of its facilities. Its safe to say these programs are planning on continuing to play D1 for the long haul. As far as budgets go keep in mind many of these schools have a larger budget than UND. MNSU and UND actually have pretty much the same budget and size. The BG10 as a whole doesn't really care about hockey, Michigan State and Ohio State haven't been good for quite some time and their is very little interest at these schools in hockey, Wisconsin finished the year 3 places in front of lake superior state and the Kohl Center has become a ghost town. Minnesota and Michigan have also had marginal success in post season play. The b10 can recover but its a question of how long it will take, The U of M is resting on past accomplishments at this point, eventually prospects will look to go elsewhere if the U of M can't recover.

Are you saying UND has a hockey budget the same as Mankato and Tech?

[ArchyAlum11]

3 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

Are you saying UND has a hockey budget the same as Mankato and Tech?

UND probably has a higher hockey budget because of donations, however UND has a budget that is about the same as Tech or MNSU. I'm not trying to diminish the Status of UND's program, UND Hockey is to college hockey what Alabama or Ole Miss is too college football. I just don't want us to get too high on the proverbial horse. Lest we forget that just a few years ago UND was a D2 school in every sport except hockey.

[JohnboyND7]

2 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

UND probably has a higher hockey budget because of donations, however UND has a budget that is about the same as Tech or MNSU. I'm not trying to diminish the Status of UND's program, UND Hockey is to college hockey what Alabama or Ole Miss is too college football. I just don't want us to get too high on the proverbial horse. Lest we forget that just a few years ago UND was a D2 school in every sport except hockey.

Being Ole Miss in football is not what you want to be associated with.

[ArchyAlum11]

Just now, JohnboyND7 said:

Being Ole Miss in football is not what you want to be associated with.

Sorry I watched the Blind Side last night so its stuck in my head.

[The Sicatoka]

North Dakota is to college hockey what Kentucky is to college basketball -- 8 time NCAA national champions.

[UNDBIZ]

1 hour ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

UND probably has a higher hockey budget because of donations, however UND has a budget that is about the same as Tech or MNSU. I'm not trying to diminish the Status of UND's program, UND Hockey is to college hockey what Alabama or Ole Miss is too college football. I just don't want us to get too high on the proverbial horse. Lest we forget that just a few years ago UND was a D2 school in every sport except hockey.

So UND's budget is probably higher but still the same as Tech's or MnSU's?

[MafiaMan]

3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

North Dakota is to college hockey what Kentucky is to college basketball -- 8 time NCAA national champions.

Only if a half dozen UND freshmen quit going to class after about March 1st and head to the NHL immediately upon the season's end...

[Gopher Fan]

On 6/5/2016 at 2:03 PM, MafiaMan said:

No way BU leaves behind the bus league in Hockey East for the B1G.

BU would not leave Hockey East to become an associate member of the B1G, but would jump at the chance to join the B1G as a full non-football member.   A move which surprisingly makes a great deal of sense for both BU and the B1G.

 

[Gopher Fan]

On 5/19/2016 at 8:42 AM, Gopher Fan said:

Adding the Boston University Terriers as the new 15th full member of the B1G. Boston U is a large research intensive private (A private university companion for Northwestern) university with memberships in both the AAU & URA with annual research endowments which would rank about 11th out of the 15 schools. They don’t have men’s football, wrestling, golf, or women’s volleyball teams, where all of the current 14 schools have teams, but do have teams in almost a dozen and a half sports where at least one current B1G school is missing a team. Two of the few sports where they would be the 15th team are men’s & women’s basketball to better match the ACC in the B1G/ACC Challenge at 15 a piece, besides a new full member would need at least one “money” sport (their basketball team can’t be much worse than Rutgers!). Add the Syracuse Orange as a new associate member for the needed 6th women’s hockey (and possibly Buffalo Bulls women’s rowing and/or Stony Brook men’s tennis) in New York and Massachusetts becomes contiguous to the B1G geographic footprint. As an added bonus MIT women’s rowing likely would follow BU from the Patriot League into the B1G. The B1G adds Massachusetts (including the top 10 Boston TV market), starts B1G women’s hockey, and gets a physical presence in the state of New York while paying Boston U about 40% of what other full members get (a full member share minus football-only revenue), which is still likely to be significantly higher than anything they could expect from the Patriot League. Boston U would get a higher profile and more respect locally, nationally, and even internationally. It would instantly be significantly easier for BU to recruit students, athletes, faculty, administrators, research endowment, and donations. Without the B1G, BU has no chance to move to a better athletic conference than the Patriot League, and the only other D1 conference near the B1G’s academic & research status is the Ivy League itself. My guess is it would take less than a day for Boston U to “officially” accept a B1G invite, including signed documents and agreeing to jump through any hoops the B1G requires (likely upgrading men’s baseball & women’s gymnastics club teams to varsity status). Very likely Boston U hockey would hate the move, but have it forced upon them.

Also, if BU upgraded fencing from club to varsity status joining Ohio State, Penn State, & Northwestern, the  B1G could add MIT & Johns Hopkins as fencing associate members (fencing only has one division) to begin sponsoring that sport as well like the ACC.

[SiouxVolley]

The B1G taking BU for all sports won't work, because all sports at BU are a joke except hockey.  BU averaged 701 for basketball last year and would need to upgrade to the Boston Garden or some bigger arena.  An average attendance of 701 for basketball won't get a school accepted to the MIAC.

[Gopher Fan]

31 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The B1G taking BU for all sports won't work, because all sports at BU are a joke except hockey.  BU averaged 701 for basketball last year and would need to upgrade to the Boston Garden or some bigger arena.  An average attendance of 701 for basketball won't get a school accepted to the MIAC.

They are also decent at lacrosse and a few of the Olympic sports. As for basketball, the attendance would increase drastically just from B1G alumni.  They currently play most of their games in their fieldhouse which seats about 1,500, but could play in the Agganis Arena they use for hockey.  The Agganis Arena would seat about 7,200 for basketball, which would be the smallest basketball arena in the B1G, but not much smaller than either Rutgers (8,000) or Northwestern (8,117).  And if the B1G only wanted competitive schools, would they have added Rutgers (Who has yet to win a B1G conference or tourament title in ANY sport)??

[siouxkid12]

14 hours ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

UND probably has a higher hockey budget because of donations, however UND has a budget that is about the same as Tech or MNSU. I'm not trying to diminish the Status of UND's program, UND Hockey is to college hockey what Alabama or Ole Miss is too college football. I just don't want us to get too high on the proverbial horse. Lest we forget that just a few years ago UND was a D2 school in every sport except hockey.

UND has a higher budget but they also have a budget that is the same as Tech/MNSU? UND's hockey budget is much higher than both of those schools, why do you think UND is in the NCHC and Tech/MNSU in the WCHA?

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, siouxkid12 said:

UND has a higher budget but they also have a budget that is the same as Tech/MNSU? UND's hockey budget is much higher than both of those schools, why do you think UND is in the NCHC and Tech/MNSU in the WCHA?

I asked the same thing.  I'm curious if he's referring to overall athletics budget or even overall school budget, in which case he's still wrong.