NCAA To Sanction UND if School Does Not Adopt New Nickname

[Goon]

 

Florida St has permission. Utah has permission. San Diego St really has no one to ask I don't think...

How long before someone complains and FSU gets put on sanctions? Seriously, a white guy dressed as an Indian riding a horse and throwing a spear into the ground. Why more offensive than yelling Sioux. Right?

[Benny Baker]

You don't want a new nickname, now or ever.  Finally some honesty.  

If more of you would answer honestly like that we could finally clear up the real intentions.  

I'm fine with Roughriders, but I've always stated that my preference would be to stay North Dakota/UND.  I've never hid that.  However, there's about a half dozen overly pessimistic fanatics on this message board who tirelessly read into things too much and make false assumption that the North Dakota/UND crowd is motivated by some deceitful desire to have UND adopt Fighting Sioux again and destroy the university.

My preference for staying North Dakota/UND has absolutely nothing to do with the Fighting Sioux.  That was my point earlier.  

As for my interest in Roughriders, my fear is that with four other names going to the public vote (whatever that vote entails), that UND will be stuck with a completely generic or extremely underwhelming nickname like Fighting Hawks or Sundogs. 

[Siouxphan27]

OK, so you are indifferent to the old Sioux name and long ago accepted that it's gone.  What is the problem then?  

I am still waiting to hear what these brand new, shiny nicknames are that everyone is going to agree upon 2-3 years from now?

I'd suggest one of the several names on the list having something to do with the state's history, the settlers, the industries, or having something to do with one of the programs offered by UND.  

But all those choices were rejected in rube like fashion with no thought process by the committee other than- I personally don't like this particular name, so let's Shiite can it.

[Goon]

Yes, yes they did. 

And yes, yes they do. 

And how many lawsuits has the NCAA lost?

[UND1983]

I'm fine with Roughriders, but I've always stated that my preference would be to stay North Dakota/UND.  I've never hid that.  However, there's about a half dozen overly pessimistic fanatics on this message board who tirelessly read into things too much and make false assumption that the North Dakota/UND crowd is motivated by some deceitful desire to have UND adopt Fighting Sioux again and destroy the university.

My preference for staying North Dakota/UND has absolutely nothing to do with the Fighting Sioux.  That was my point earlier.  

As for my interest in Roughriders, my fear is that with four other names going to the public vote (whatever that vote entails), that UND will be stuck with a completely generic or extremely underwhelming nickname like Fighting Hawks or Sundogs. 

Cool, makes sense.  But why do you want to stay North Dakota and have no nickname?  You have said you want to stay North Dakota/UND but gave no reasons why.  Or why it would benefit UND as an institution.

[Benny Baker]

How long before someone complains and FSU gets put on sanctions? Seriously, a white guy dressed as an Indian riding a horse and throwing a spear into the ground. Why more offensive than yelling Sioux. Right?

Which raises the identity of those alleged "other schools that might--might--complain" about UND's absence of a nickname.  I'd love to see the academic who rings up the NCAA and complains about UND's lack of a nickname a week before his school accepts a huge payout for going down to get slaughtered in Tallahasee by the Florida State Seminole football team

[ClassB]

I'm fine with the North Dakota into perpetuity. All along in the nickname process I had assumed I would toss my support in with the best (least atrocious) option, but with this final list, I choose North Dakota.

[JohnboyND7]

Florida St has the blessing of the tribes. And if they lose that blessing... They have a lot of money.

 

And to the other guys point... You folks and Florida St don't really have much in the way of common opponents.  But even if you did... They can use the rational and convenient response of "UND doesn't have the blessing of the tribes. Florida St does."

 

Pick a name 

[darell1976]

I would like to know how many of the No Nickname crowd actually has more than one item with just UND or the interlocking ND on it? I am sure all of us has more than 1 item with the Fighting Sioux name/logo on it but how many have more than one without any logo on it. I personally have more than one shirt without the Sioux name and logo but I would like to see UND with a nickname and would probably buy a shirt with the new name because I support UND no matter what nickname it is.

[Benny Baker]

Florida St has the blessing of the tribes. And if they lose that blessing... They have a lot of money.

 

And to the other guys point... You folks and Florida St don't really have much in the way of common opponents.  But even if you did... They can use the rational and convenient response of "UND doesn't have the blessing of the tribes. Florida St does."

 

Pick a name 

Spirit Lake?

I'll edit this and also note that Central Michigan Chippewas may have more common opponents to UND than Florida State since that apparently needs to be a factor in your analysis.  Like UND, Central Michigan only received the blessing of one of five Chippewa tribes in the state of Michigan.  UND did better and received the blessing of one of two.  But my point is really this: what University is really going to complain about the absence of a nickname out of concern for hostile and abusive treatment to ethnic minorities when there are schools, like Florida State, with a white-man playing "indian face" and a whole stadium performing native american chants in unison?

Edited August 19, 2015 by Benny Baker

[darell1976]

 

Spirit Lake?

Tribes is plural.

[Benny Baker]

Cool, makes sense.  But why do you want to stay North Dakota and have no nickname?  You have said you want to stay North Dakota/UND but gave no reasons why.  Or why it would benefit UND as an institution.

I've personally grown accustomed to it over the past three years.  I do personally think its unique and inclusive of our state's residents and alumni.  I've enjoyed sports commentators who simply refer to UND as "North Dakota" or the like as opposed to a potential nickname, like Fighting Hawks, that an average viewer may not associate with our state or university.  I personally like UND/North Dakota better than the other five options, and I personally believe that a majority of "stakeholders" agree with me.

I might be wrong, but let's put it to a vote and see.

[Goon]

Which raises the identity of those alleged "other schools that might--might--complain" about UND's absence of a nickname.  I'd love to see the academic who rings up the NCAA and complains about UND's lack of a nickname a week before his school accepts a huge payout for going down to get slaughtered in Tallahasee by the Florida State Seminole football team

The school that first came to mind was SCSU. I like how their old president  Sagio (sp) had an axe to grind against UND for use of the nickname and then SCSU turns around and begs to get into the NCHC.  I suppose Minnesota could be use it as an excuse to not schedule UND in hockey.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Goon

[darell1976]

The school that first came to mind was SCSU. I like how their old president  Sagio (sp) had an axe to grind against UND for use of the nickname and then SCSU turns around and begs to get into the NCHC. 

I could see SCSU complain to the NCAA right after the first hockey game in St. Cloud.

[Benny Baker]

And I can see that some of us have been lead to believe that the word "sioux" at the end of a national anthem will necessarily, unequivocally, and automatically result in sanctions if a Sundog crest is not promptly placed on the sweaters of the men's hockey team.

[jdub27]

I might be wrong, but let's put it to a vote and see.

It already was and it lost. The representatives that were chosen to represent whichever group or groups of stakeholder you fall into either did not agree with you or were outvoted by other representatives. 

[JohnboyND7]

And I can see that some of us have been lead to believe that the word "sioux" at the end of a national anthem will necessarily, unequivocally, and automatically result in sanctions if a Sundog crest is not promptly placed on the sweaters of the men's hockey team.

they are allowed to do that. To the NCAA the Seminoles are no different than the crimson Tide.  They hhave permission. I don't know how you haven't picked up on that yet.

[darell1976]

And I can see that some of us have been lead to believe that the word "sioux" at the end of a national anthem will necessarily, unequivocally, and automatically result in sanctions if a Sundog crest is not promptly placed on the sweaters of the men's hockey team.

FSU has an NCAA approved nickname (thanks to the tribal approval) UND has no nickname, compare UND with another school with no nickname. Globe University? 

[Benny Baker]

they are allowed to do that. To the NCAA the Seminoles are no different than the crimson Tide.  They hhave permission. I don't know how you haven't picked up on that yet.

I don't know, it's kind of hard to believe much of anything you have to say considering how badly your opinion of the settlement agreement turned out.  

But again, you're purposefully avoiding my point: what University is really going to complain about the absence of a nickname out of concern for hostile and abusive treatment to ethnic minorities when there are schools, like Florida State, with a white-man playing "indian face" and a whole stadium performing native american chants in unison?

[Taz Boy]

If the NCAA enforces rules on speech in a forum that has public ties, they become a state actor = problems.

Noble efforts, Chewey.  But, I fear much of your logic and reason is left undigested by those of the unconstrained vision. The anti-North Dakota nickname regime is focused on creating fear, uncertainty and doubt as to the impact such a choice might have.  However, we know the following to be true:

• Right now, the majority opinion is with "North Dakota" or the no nickname choice.  Its predominantly the academic and political class that want to squelch that and move on towards a more enlightened situation.
• There is absolutely no penalty, or risk of same, for the UND/North Dakota option.  The NCAA will move on to more pressing matters than what free persons joyfully shout out at a hockey/football/basketball game in Grand Forks, ND.
• The existing interlocking logo and "North Dakota" in bold font are highly marketable, to the extent that UND could ever be marketable nationwide sans the Fighting Sioux name.
• There is absolutely no recruiting issue with staying North Dakota, in any sport.  Zero.  None.  It is a plus.
• Far from being a "dumb" idea.  It is actually quite bold, unique, and respectful.
• UND is at least 10 years away from becoming a cowboy, bird, or atmospheric phenomena.  Maybe 20.  Too soon.

For those of you here passionately arguing for a new name, I'm fine with your opinion, but you actually come across here as being intolerant.  Taz Boy, of course, is open minded.  I simply pick my favorite from the list.  A list that includes some of the worst sports nicknames ever conceived, e.g., Roughriders.  If North Dakota is on the list, it's my choice.  If not, then its on to the generic Fighting Hawks.  Do I like it?  Not particularly.  But, that would be my choice of the remaining sad and embarrassing options.  Third is North Stars, which is a near perfect name for a MN team, but that's where it should stay.

taz

[darell1976]

Noble efforts, Chewey.  But, I fear much of your logic and reason is left undigested by those of the unconstrained vision. The anti-North Dakota nickname regime is focused on creating fear, uncertainty and doubt as to the impact such a choice might have.  However, we know the following to be true:

• Right now, the majority opinion is with "North Dakota" or the no nickname choice.  Its predominantly the academic and political class that want to squelch that and move on towards a more enlightened situation.
• There is absolutely no penalty, or risk of same, for the UND/North Dakota option.  The NCAA will move on to more pressing matters than what free persons joyfully shout out at a hockey/football/basketball game in Grand Forks, ND.
• The existing interlocking logo and "North Dakota" in bold font are highly marketable, to the extent that UND could ever be marketable nationwide sans the Fighting Sioux name.
• There is absolutely no recruiting issue with staying North Dakota, in any sport.  Zero.  None.  It is a plus.
• Far from being a "dumb" idea.  It is actually quite bold, unique, and respectful.
• UND is at least 10 years away from becoming a cowboy, bird, or atmospheric phenomena.  Maybe 20.  Too soon.

For those of you here passionately arguing for a new name, I'm fine with your opinion, but you actually come across here as being intolerant.  Taz Boy, of course, is open minded.  I simply pick my favorite from the list.  A list that includes some of the worst sports nicknames ever conceived, e.g., Roughriders.  If North Dakota is on the list, it's my choice.  If not, then its on to the generic Fighting Hawks.  Do I like it?  Not particularly.  But, that would be my choice of the remaining sad and embarrassing options.  Third is North Stars, which is a near perfect name for a MN team, but that's where it should stay.

taz

What is your source for this? A majority of whom? Students? Alumni? GF residents? Define "majority".

[petey23]

C'mon sky, the schoolyard stuff is beneath you. The "you think you're smarter than me" tactic doesn't work after elementary school. I know you have better game than that. 

Form a logical argument why you think darrell, Hayduke, or I are wrong and blow us up. 

Well. 1 of these 3 has been wrong

[petey23]

I could see SCSU complain to the NCAA right after the first hockey game in St. Cloud.

good for you.

[jdub27]

The existing interlocking logo and "North Dakota" in bold font are highly marketable, to the extent that UND could ever be marketable nationwide sans the Fighting Sioux name.

I agree, Notre Dame has shown it can be done with an almost exact replica!  Per people within the Athletic Administration, when student athletes are traveling, they really enjoy people asking them about Notre Dame when they see their travel gear.

[Ray77]

they are allowed to do that. To the NCAA the Seminoles are no different than the crimson Tide.  They hhave permission. I don't know how you haven't picked up on that yet.

I don't know, it's kind of hard to believe much of anything you have to say considering how badly your opinion of the settlement agreement turned out.  

But again, you're purposefully avoiding my point: what University is really going to complain about the absence of a nickname out of concern for hostile and abusive treatment to ethnic minorities when there are schools, like Florida State, with a white-man playing "indian face" and a whole stadium performing native american chants in unison?

Johnboy - I think everyone understands that FSU has permission from the Seminole tribe while UND didn't get permission from both tribes here (actually one of them mostly in SD), and the nuances within.  The issue I have with this is that Native American mascots, imagery, chants, etc. either ARE hostile, abusive, racist, etc. or they ARE NOT.  How does this pass?  How do people let the NCAA get away with making sh!t up as they go, and arbitrarily enforcing rules?  And I get it - it's their club, they make the rules, etc.  I can't believe that people that have the power to do something about this (Senators, Governors, etc?) let them get away with this.