darell1976 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Good Discussion! Now for a few comments on my part. I will attempt to address them by paragraph. 1. I believe you are confusing my support for interstate vs intrastate rivalries. I stated that interstate rivalries are the best and on that we apparently have some agreement. I do not agree with Don Lucia and in fact I don't agree with anything a goofer coach might say. If it wasn't for the attitude of especially Mpls/St, Paul goofer fans maybe I would not be so polarized. I personally don't mind the polarization prior to the contest, but I do believe in sportsmanship after it's over. The rivalry should continue but we all know the reason for that. It starts with the arrogance of people like Big 10 Commissioner Jim Delany. I see no reason why some type of consideration for UND hockey as an affiliate to the Big 10 couldn't have been made or at least discussed. If it was I never heard about it. 2. Efficiency and productivity are staples to any successful operation and academics along with athletics are no exception. I agree the Lunatic Fringe at both UND and NDSU will likely never give an inch, but IMO that only makes up 10-15% for each school. That leaves IMO 70-80% of the State proud of the accomplishments of various sports at both schools. If all you do is talk to the Lunatic Fringe at either school it's easy to feel like you do, but as I travel the State I sense a different perspective. North Dakota has things going for it that make us stand out from MT, SD, or ID, similar States in size and scope. And at least in the 1880's we both would have been on the same page. Some of our most influential leaders back then thought the State Penitentiary was the most important institution to be located in your respective community. I do not feel our politicians in this State will do anything but screw things up worse if they get more involved. 3. I see support across the State for UND hockey and I am thankful that NDSU does not have hockey. It would only divide the base of fan support. You are correct in Minnesota's attitude towards NDSU athletics in general and even though UND hockey has been quite different over the years I see that changing if they are not in the same league. Outside of the Lunatic Fringe I personally experienced a great deal of Statewide support for NDSU football when they played Minnesota so I guess it's who you talk to and spend time with that determines perspective. I could care less if UND and NDSU ever play each other in football. I would rather see games against Minnesota, Montana U, and the like but that's just personal preference. I would rather defeat gophers, grizzlies, badgers, and bunnies than get into a fight with my bother/sister as the case might be. UND is 0-20 lifetime against Minnesota, and if you think we are going to Camp Randall and beat the Badgers please pass around whatever you are smoking. You think we are going to have yearly games against these two like we would against Montana or even NDSU? You may want to think long term but for one thing we aren't on the same level as the BIG 10 except in hockey, so a rivalry with them outside of hockey isn't going to happen. Our rival is NDSU, our "hockey" rival is Minnesota, don't lump them into the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjamz Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 What "power" is it that FU has to negotiate? GT paid D-2 teams almost $200K to come to Fargo. He signed a home/home with Weber St who is historically a very average football team. Explain to me which part of these deals show this magical power? He put us in a situation where in 2014 we added a 12th game where we travel to a cupcake for added tune up for the conference play. Next year we get that tune up at home (filled a home spot on the schedule for next year). Now just one more cupcake to go next year since UND doesn't want to take us up on the payday to come here. We don't have to negotiate to where we have an away game and are left with only 5 home games. The reason we were over the barrel and pretty much forced to pay Ferris State to come here was because your conference mate bought out rather than play us. It was late in the year already and it was impossible for us to find another FCS team that wanted to come here and/or had room on their schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjamz Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I actually can't believe this is hard for some to grasp that the football climate has changed since the original offer that Gene sent to UND was made. TWO YEARS LATER and they expect that the offer still stands? What kind of crazy world does UND live in? A two year old verbal offer doesn't mean !@#$. Hell recruits commit/decommit all the time based on verbal agreements. We don't go crying to the media every time that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 UND is 0-20 lifetime against Minnesota, and if you think we are going to Camp Randall and beat the Badgers please pass around whatever you are smoking. You think we are going to have yearly games against these two like we would against Montana or even NDSU? You may want to think long term but for one thing we aren't on the same level as the BIG 10 except in hockey, so a rivalry with them outside of hockey isn't going to happen. Our rival is NDSU, our "hockey" rival is Minnesota, don't lump them into the same category. Poly almost beat the badgers a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 He put us in a situation where in 2014 we added a 12th game where we travel to a cupcake for added tune up for the conference play. Next year we get that tune up at home (filled a home spot on the schedule for next year). Now just one more cupcake to go next year since UND doesn't want to take us up on the payday to come here. We don't have to negotiate to where we have an away game and are left with only 5 home games. The reason we were over the barrel and pretty much forced to pay Ferris State to come here was because your conference mate bought out rather than play us. It was late in the year already and it was impossible for us to find another FCS team that wanted to come here and/or had room on their schedule. I hate buyouts (UND got the shaft twice) but on the other hand it was a "business decision" for MSU. I know Bison fans love to use that phrase when talking about GT changing the terms of the home and home with UND, so why can't they accept that on why MSU backed out of the home and home instead of nailing them to the cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Poly almost beat the badgers a few years back. At this point I don't see UND "almost" beating any member of the Big10 especially in Madison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 He put us in a situation where in 2014 we added a 12th game where we travel to a cupcake for added tune up for the conference play. Next year we get that tune up at home (filled a home spot on the schedule for next year). Now just one more cupcake to go next year since UND doesn't want to take us up on the payday to come here. We don't have to negotiate to where we have an away game and are left with only 5 home games. The reason we were over the barrel and pretty much forced to pay Ferris State to come here was because your conference mate bought out rather than play us. It was late in the year already and it was impossible for us to find another FCS team that wanted to come here and/or had room on their schedule. How is that power? Signing a home/home is something that happens regularly, Faison has been doing it for years with FCS schools. If you had this power you thought you did, you would have been able to get Weber to show up next year plus had someone else come in this year, not have to got to Weber. UND must have similar power since it got to 12 games this year by signing a home/home with Stony Brook and Missouri State. NDSU isn't negotiating from some perceived position of power. I actually can't believe this is hard for some to grasp that the football climate has changed since the original offer that Gene sent to UND was made. TWO YEARS LATER and they expect that the offer still stands? What kind of crazy world does UND live in? A two year old verbal offer doesn't mean !@#$. Hell recruits commit/decommit all the time based on verbal agreements. We don't go crying to the media every time that happens. You're forgetting that in May 2012 GT told Izzo that the series was close to resuming and due to him talking to the media, Faison got questioned about it and confirmed it was still a home/home. On top of that, Faison accepted GT's offer for a home/home when he made in 2011, though apparently the dates were not settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjamz Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I hate buyouts (UND got the shaft twice) but on the other hand it was a "business decision" for MSU. I know Bison fans love to use that phrase when talking about GT changing the terms of the home and home with UND, so why can't they accept that on why MSU backed out of the home and home instead of nailing them to the cross? It was a business decision. It sucked, but we got by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulk Truck Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 UND is 0-20 lifetime against Minnesota, and if you think we are going to Camp Randall and beat the Badgers please pass around whatever you are smoking. You think we are going to have yearly games against these two like we would against Montana or even NDSU? You may want to think long term but for one thing we aren't on the same level as the BIG 10 except in hockey, so a rivalry with them outside of hockey isn't going to happen. Our rival is NDSU, our "hockey" rival is Minnesota, don't lump them into the same category. Hey the Lunatic Fringe at NDSU said the same thing about Minnesota and basically NDSU won 3 games on the field, but only two on the scoreboard. NDSU was 0-5 prior to the last 3 games and it didn't seem to slow them down. NDSU has a 7-3 record against FBS teams over the last 10 games so it can be done. If UND stays in FCS football I hope they are willing to play regional FBS teams, although I can't fault their scheduling of the likes of San Jose State, Wyoming, Utah, Washington and Bowling Green. It just would be nice to have games that more people could drive to. In 2012 UNI lost 26-21 to the badgers on a last minute touchdown. If you have the attitude you can't win you won't. I fully understand the 63 vs 85 argument, but for one game a year anything is possible. As for hockey I am afraid that losing the conference affiliation is going to work against UND hockey when it comes to the great rivalry we have had with the goofers and the badgers in the past. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjamz Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 How is that power? Signing a home/home is something that happens regularly, Faison has been doing it for years with FCS schools. If you had this power you thought you did, you would have been able to get Weber to show up next year plus had someone else come in this year, not have to got to Weber. UND must have similar power since it got to 12 games this year by signing a home/home with Stony Brook and Missouri State. NDSU isn't negotiating from some perceived position of power. It does. We just killed two birds with one stone. Yes, we have to travel to Weber St for a 12th game.... but we typically don't schedule a 12th game. We don't have to pay them to come here, they don't pay us to go there. Like I said, tune-up game either way. If UND wants to play us in GF wait until 2019 when we have a 12 game schedule again. You're forgetting that in May 2012 GT told Izzo that the series was close to resuming and due to him talking to the media, Faison got questioned about it and confirmed it was still a home/home. On top of that, Faison accepted GT's offer for a home/home when he made in 2011, though apparently the dates were not settled. Again, we are going back a couple years to May of 2012. What has happened since May of 2012.... oh yeah, that's right. 2 more national championships. Faison should have pushed harder then if he really wanted it. The dates were there, it sounds like GT was ready to sign off on those dates (or darn close). The facts are that neither of them got to the point where a formal contract was written/presented. They were jawing back and forth about dates and schedules and whatnot. By the time Faison agreed to the verbal aspects of it, Taylor changed his mind and did not wish to pursue a written agreement. Happens ALL THE TIME in business. I was recently told verbally that I would be awarded the contract for a $2,000,000 IP Camera system. Was told we were low bidders by the General Contractor, was told the contract was coming. It went to one of our competitors instead even though their product wasn't wasn't as good but they were $50,000 cheaper than we were. !@#$ happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Hey the Lunatic Fringe at NDSU said the same thing about Minnesota and basically NDSU won 3 games on the field, but only two on the scoreboard. NDSU was 0-5 prior to the last 3 games and it didn't seem to slow them down. NDSU has a 7-3 record against FBS teams over the last 10 games so it can be done. If UND stays in FCS football I hope they are willing to play regional FBS teams, although I can't fault their scheduling of the likes of San Jose State, Wyoming, Utah, Washington and Bowling Green. It just would be nice to have games that more people could drive to. In 2012 UNI lost 26-21 to the badgers on a last minute touchdown. If you have the attitude you can't win you won't. I fully understand the 63 vs 85 argument, but for one game a year anything is possible. As for hockey I am afraid that losing the conference affiliation is going to work against UND hockey when it comes to the great rivalry we have had with the goofers and the badgers in the past. We shall see. NDSU has had great teams in their FCS run, UND is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Muss drove this team into the ground, UND was close to beating SDSU (Aztecs), NIU, and Fresno St. Last year we lost to UNC at home. You think that team could take down the Gophers, Badgers or hell even UMass? Bubba is going to try to pull a Roger Thomas 2.0 and rebuild this team to get it at least competitive in conference play let alone against FBS teams. UND got blown out twice against Idaho how could they have stayed with Minnesota? As for hockey it sucks what Alveraz did and created a Big 10 conference. Maybe they could allow UND to join (like what they did with JH in lacrosse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 It was a business decision. It sucked, but we got by. You got by? You vilified MSU and still do to this day all for a "business decision". Makes you guys look like hypacrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulk Truck Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 NDSU has had great teams in their FCS run, UND is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Muss drove this team into the ground, UND was close to beating SDSU (Aztecs), NIU, and Fresno St. Last year we lost to UNC at home. You think that team could take down the Gophers, Badgers or hell even UMass? Bubba is going to try to pull a Roger Thomas 2.0 and rebuild this team to get it at least competitive in conference play let alone against FBS teams. UND got blown out twice against Idaho how could they have stayed with Minnesota? As for hockey it sucks what Alveraz did and created a Big 10 conference. Maybe they could allow UND to join (like what they did with JH in lacrosse). Babich left NDSU on an opportunity to improve himself with the Chicago Bears. Had it not been for Bears HC Lovie Smith who knows where Babich would have ended up. Babich was as popular at NDSU as Mussman was at UND. In the year that UND last played and beat NDSU, NDSU also beat Montana in Missoula so NDSU had some relative success from the start. I feel that UND's hockey rivalries with Minnesota and Wisconsin are eventually going to suffer more than they have already, although Wisconsin is on the UND schedule for 2014-2015 but the game is in Madison. Will home and home hockey games be scheduled with Minnesota, Wisconsin, or other Big 10 hockey teams? Will hockey be relegated to playing those Big 10 schools only on the road? That would be a slap in the face for UND's historical success in hockey. As for Roger Thomas good guy, good coach, but terrible for D-1 aspirations at UND and for all the other Dakota Universities that were in the old NCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperman8 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I actually can't believe this is hard for some to grasp that the football climate has changed since the original offer that Gene sent to UND was made. TWO YEARS LATER and they expect that the offer still stands? What kind of crazy world does UND live in? A two year old verbal offer doesn't mean !@#$. Hell recruits commit/decommit all the time based on verbal agreements. We don't go crying to the media every time that happens. I don't believe in there was 2 years in between communications. Schlossman said they just didn't have time to track down the communication between those dates because they were worried about being scooped on the story. I would guess that there was plenty of talking in that time but BF won't tell everybody about it because he doesn't want to poison the water regargless of the SU theory that he negotiates through the media. Schlossman also said that it was all open records requests and not coming from BF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 It does. We just killed two birds with one stone. Yes, we have to travel to Weber St for a 12th game.... but we typically don't schedule a 12th game. We don't have to pay them to come here, they don't pay us to go there. Like I said, tune-up game either way. If UND wants to play us in GF wait until 2019 when we have a 12 game schedule again. If you FU negotiating power, they wouldn't have to sign a home/home and travel to Weber State to get a return game. They haven't signed any special contracts that no one else would have been able to get. Also, Faison has offered 2019 as one of the return dates for a home/home. Again, we are going back a couple years to May of 2012. What has happened since May of 2012.... oh yeah, that's right. 2 more national championships. Faison should have pushed harder then if he really wanted it. The dates were there, it sounds like GT was ready to sign off on those dates (or darn close). The facts are that neither of them got to the point where a formal contract was written/presented. They were jawing back and forth about dates and schedules and whatnot. By the time Faison agreed to the verbal aspects of it, Taylor changed his mind and did not wish to pursue a written agreement. Happens ALL THE TIME in business. I was recently told verbally that I would be awarded the contract for a $2,000,000 IP Camera system. Was told we were low bidders by the General Contractor, was told the contract was coming. It went to one of our competitors instead even though their product wasn't wasn't as good but they were $50,000 cheaper than we were. !@#$ happens. If you're going to keep pretending that there was 2 years between the original negotiation and a contract showing up on GT's desk, than I'm going to keep bringing up the actual known facts, there was communication between the two. Faison didn't randomly draw up a contract without any input from GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison73 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Have you looked ahead to your 2015 schedule yet? A whole one year away and your "scheduling template" excuse doesn't hold up. Nobody said it would work out EVERY year. But thats what they want to achieve on a regular basis. Dont understand whats so hard to understand about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison73 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 There you have it. "Cow college logic" at its finest. Of all the ridiculous things you post here, this one has to be up there. And you dont want to schedule UND because it wouldn't be healthy because of the name-calling. When in fact FU and its fanbase will continue to do it like they have been even though we havent been playing in football. So whats the difference? Its obvious to me that most FU fans just want to avoid playing UND at all costs, only because they dont want to chance actually losing the game, like they have in every other sport this year. Gus--come on guy. Its not that they are afraid of losing(even though you would like to think so) Its the fact they dont like you and couple that with past history just adds gas to that fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison73 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I hate buyouts (UND got the shaft twice) but on the other hand it was a "business decision" for MSU. I know Bison fans love to use that phrase when talking about GT changing the terms of the home and home with UND, so why can't they accept that on why MSU backed out of the home and home instead of nailing them to the cross? Oh we accept those facts. But that doesnt mean we still cant give them crap about it. I think many were upset because we really wanted to play them. We thought it would be a great game. When they backed out we got a suck azz game. I am sure you can understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Nobody said it would work out EVERY year. But thats what they want to achieve on a regular basis. Dont understand whats so hard to understand about that. Its your fans who say a home/home can't be done because the "scheduling template" needs to be followed every year. Just pointing out that its not a hard and fast rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison73 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Its your fans who say a home/home can't be done because the "scheduling template" needs to be followed every year. Just pointing out that its not a hard and fast rule. Some fans come off that way but they in fact know it aint written in stone. Plus not everyone goes to the well on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskool Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Play the game for the new players on both teams and era in nodak athletics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison73 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Play the game for the new players on both teams and era in nodak athletics. As Ive stated before---I would love to see the game played again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Despite all the back biting statements, this has actually been a pretty good thread for venting frustration over the lack of progress at getting this game scheduled. I think it should be played...but with a home and home deal. Eventually, I think that is what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd1sufan Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Anyone hear which FCS team was mentioned by name at the Big 5 BCS conference football meeting this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxphan27 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Anyone still have small man syndrome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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