LeftyZL Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Yes, associated expense and underutilization is what parking office told me Well, there you go. Obviously, not enough people were taking advantage or utilizing the service to make it worth the expense. Simple economics. Instead of being mad at UND, more people should have utilized the bus system to avoid the situation we are in now. We should be asking UND for the average number of people that rode the buses on any given night. We'd probably be surprised.
YaneA Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 I believe those were the facts and figures I have asked for. I'm sure it's heresy in a stingy state like ND but sometimes government needs to provide a service without counting beans. 2
fightingsioux4life Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Well, there you go. Obviously, not enough people were taking advantage or utilizing the service to make it worth the expense. Simple economics. Instead of being mad at UND, more people should have utilized the bus system to avoid the situation we are in now. We should be asking UND for the average number of people that rode the buses on any given night. We'd probably be surprised. And you just accept the official explanation as gospel? This is the problem with some of the people in our fan base. Just because UND dishes out a boilerplate, cookie-cutter explanation for one of their boneheaded decisions doesn't mean we have to eat it and be thankful it was served to us. My dad rode those shuttles and he will tell you there were long lines of people waiting to get on them. This "underutilization" excuse is a bunch of hooey (I would use a certain 4-letter word, but this is a family discussion forum! ). The fact that YaneA's request was shuffled to another person and then was ignored by that person tells you that they just want the issue to go away. Well, it isn't going away, UND. Deal with it now or deal with it later.
gfhockey Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 hey guys Faison and company knows whats best for udn. that's why they are hired to do what they do... cough empty seat disease at aleruse cough cough nice tv deal 1
Let'sGoHawks! Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Noted. It has been more than 3-5 business days since Parking said they were forwarding my email to Lucke. Haha, classic. That buys them 3-5 more days! Interested in the reply though.
82SiouxGuy Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 And you just accept the official explanation as gospel? This is the problem with some of the people in our fan base. Just because UND dishes out a boilerplate, cookie-cutter explanation for one of their boneheaded decisions doesn't mean we have to eat it and be thankful it was served to us. My dad rode those shuttles and he will tell you there were long lines of people waiting to get on them. This "underutilization" excuse is a bunch of hooey (I would use a certain 4-letter word, but this is a family discussion forum! ). The fact that YaneA's request was shuffled to another person and then was ignored by that person tells you that they just want the issue to go away. Well, it isn't going away, UND. Deal with it now or deal with it later. I rode the shuttle 5-10 games a year for the past several years. My estimate is an average of about 300 people used the ramp and shuttles. I don't think I ever saw the ramp over half full even when other events were using it. That is about 2.5-3% of the attendance at each game. Most of them showed up at one time to ride back after the game, that's why there were lines. Almost all of them fit on the 4 buses that made the initial trip back.
fightingsioux4life Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 I rode the shuttle 5-10 games a year for the past several years. My estimate is an average of about 300 people used the ramp and shuttles. I don't think I ever saw the ramp over half full even when other events were using it. That is about 2.5-3% of the attendance at each game. Most of them showed up at one time to ride back after the game, that's why there were lines. Almost all of them fit on the 4 buses that made the initial trip back. So people who are elderly, disabled or have youngsters can just stay home if they don't like it? That is what will happen without some type of shuttle system when most of the parking is several blocks away. If UND can't afford to provide shuttles for their most popular sport, then what the heck are we doing in Division I? Like I have said before, we aren't bussing people in from out of town. Maybe REA can start their own shuttle service. Just raise the price of beer $1 and that should pay for it, considering how much they sell at every home game and/or event.
gfhockey Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 not all of us can afford a parking pass! or want to talk long distances in rain or -40 windchills! shame on und! I am not writing my check to them this year and know of a bunch of othr "big wigs" who aren't ither
YaneA Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Interesting anecdote regarding underutilization. My impression as a shuttle rider for every game since 2001 is there might be more than that but I guess we'll just have to wait for the data. Someone asked about shuttles to the Al for football. Just ran out to Hugo's and passed 3 empty, running buses waiting on the side of 2nd Av N ---maybe they will be utilized to transport the team rather than fans
LeftyZL Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 And you just accept the official explanation as gospel? This is the problem with some of the people in our fan base. Just because UND dishes out a boilerplate, cookie-cutter explanation for one of their boneheaded decisions doesn't mean we have to eat it and be thankful it was served to us. My dad rode those shuttles and he will tell you there were long lines of people waiting to get on them. This "underutilization" excuse is a bunch of hooey (I would use a certain 4-letter word, but this is a family discussion forum! ). The fact that YaneA's request was shuffled to another person and then was ignored by that person tells you that they just want the issue to go away. Well, it isn't going away, UND. Deal with it now or deal with it later. How many people are in a long line? 20? 50? 100? Your answer sounds "hooey" to me since you weren't the one actually riding the buses, your dad was. It may be "hooey" to you, but that's the only answer you have. Would you feel better if UND came out and said that they were just tired of doing the buses and decided not to do them anymore? No one is denying that it won't inconvenience a certain amount of people. That's how life works in general.
82SiouxGuy Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 So people who are elderly, disabled or have youngsters can just stay home if they don't like it? That is what will happen without some type of shuttle system when most of the parking is several blocks away. If UND can't afford to provide shuttles for their most popular sport, then what the heck are we doing in Division I? Like I have said before, we aren't bussing people in from out of town. Maybe REA can start their own shuttle service. Just raise the price of beer $1 and that should pay for it, considering how much they sell at every home game and/or event. I didn't see large numbers of elderly or people with disabilities. Actually I saw very few people with disabilities. There were a decent number of families. How many other schools provide shuttle service? You love to rant about how terrible UND is and that they shouldn't have gone DI if they couldn't afford to do the gold plated version, how many other DI programs provide shuttle services for fans? UND has no obligation to provide the shuttles. If you buy a ticket, getting to the game is your responsibility. I'm going to miss the shuttle, but I will find other options.
YaneA Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Good for you, 82. My work around is to walk the two blocks in whatever conditions North Dakota can throw at me for the next 6 months. I'd appreciate it if you see a 61 1/2 year old woman with double cataracts, a bad back and an arthritic hip (me, btw) toddling down Columbia Road in the rain tonight, you try not to splash her. But if you do, please know how comforted I'll be by the adage that that's just the way the world works sometimes. Allow me my outrage, huh? I'll afford you the same courtesy the next time your personal ox is gored. 4
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted October 12, 2013 Author Posted October 12, 2013 how many other DI programs provide shuttle services for fans? Let's be honest and objective about this. If you're going to compare other schools, you're going to have to look at (1) climate/weather, (2) traffic and pedestrian dynamics, and (3) availability of on-site parking in relation to capacity/attendance. Don't lump day football games in September and October together with nighttime hockey games in December and January. This is not about the ability to pay...this is about the willingness to provide an enjoyable fan experience to everyone, not just the coddled masses of big-time club donors and STH.
gfhockey Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 wow Sioux82 just got owned! go get him YaneA 1
siouxweet Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 I didn't see large numbers of elderly or people with disabilities. Actually I saw very few people with disabilities. There were a decent number of families. How many other schools provide shuttle service? You love to rant about how terrible UND is and that they shouldn't have gone DI if they couldn't afford to do the gold plated version, how many other DI programs provide shuttle services for fans? UND has no obligation to provide the shuttles. If you buy a ticket, getting to the game is your responsibility. I'm going to miss the shuttle, but I will find other options. most other universities have some sort of public parking at or near the arena. it blows my mind that you can spend $100 plus million on the arena and skimp on the parking to where only those that donate higher $$$ numbers can park at the arena. 1
gfhockey Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 the people that wear the credentials around their neck only care about thie big wigs and not the little guys. there is way more little guys then big guys ill tllyou that.
WiSioux Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Obviously the shuttles were not intended for me, a young, healthy, female. But in my experience in numerous sporting events, I cannot recall a place other than the Ralph where I have been dropped off at the door, for free. I have a hard time thinking of a sporting event I have attended where you haven't had to walk a few blocks outside in the weather... Duluth, St. Cloud, Wisconsin, Lambeau, Joe Louis Arena... I agree that just up and getting rid of the shuttle wasn't the best idea. Perhaps reducing the number of shuttles, or simply charging for the shuttle would have worked better. Question: Would have you payed $1 to ride the shuttle? 1
siouxweet Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Obviously the shuttles were not intended for me, a young, healthy, female. But in my experience in numerous sporting events, I cannot recall a place other than the Ralph where I have been dropped off at the door, for free. I have a hard time thinking of a sporting event I have attended where you haven't had to walk a few blocks outside in the weather... Duluth, St. Cloud, Wisconsin, Lambeau, Joe Louis Arena... I agree that just up and getting rid of the shuttle wasn't the best idea. Perhaps reducing the number of shuttles, or simply charging for the shuttle would have worked better. Question: Would have you payed $1 to ride the shuttle? you don't get dropped off for free. you paid $10 each night or bought a pass at the beginning of the year for the whole season.
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted October 12, 2013 Author Posted October 12, 2013 Perhaps reducing the number of shuttles, or simply charging for the shuttle would have worked better. Question: Would have you payed $1 to ride the shuttle? Most people already were paying for the shuttle...by parking in the ramp. In fact, a couple of years ago, the fee literally doubled and the University started offering a pre-paid plan. The only free-riders were (a) people who got themselves to the ramp via other means, and (b) UND ramp permit holders -- who, for what it's worth, were already paying for the privilege many times over. (But that's a different issue entirely.)
YaneA Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 $300 for a generic A hang tag for UND. That won't get you in the ramp for events or most of the work day.
WiSioux Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Isn't that paying to park in the ramp? Not technically paying to ride the shuttle. I view the two differently. Is the only free parking for hockey street parking?
YaneA Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Depends what you mean by free. Having paid $300 for my staff tag I can park for "free" in A lots that haven't been closed to allow only paid parking for an event. However with the no shuttle policy more A lot spaces have been captured for paid event parking Hence, my neighbors who work at the U and never take the shuttle are being asked to pay 10 bucks a game for the same spot where their A tags were previously sufficient
YaneA Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Some spaces are saved for staff faculty and students with business in the buildings where paid event parking is being enforced. Business in the building. That doesn't mean you'll walk through the building and then head over to the Ralph. 23 or so h
YaneA Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 23 or so games/ season means another $230 in parking fees in top of tickets, donation to Champions Club and the $ 300 A lot sticker. So it's not just shuttle users who are pissed.
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted October 12, 2013 Author Posted October 12, 2013 Isn't that paying to park in the ramp? Not technically paying to ride the shuttle. I view the two differently. Is the only free parking for hockey street parking? My understanding is that UND Parking took the concession and engaged UND's Transportation department to utilize the existing campus shuttles and drivers as an adjunct to make ramp parking feasible on game nights. UND Parking provided the workers to place cones, guide traffic, take money, etc. Paying $5-10 bucks to park that far away without the shuttle was probably never even an option. Even in real metropolitan areas, the further you get away from the venue, the cheaper the parking. The costs were therefore labor (Parking staff and drivers), and fuel/maintenance on the buses. Maintenance was probably negligible because the buses already run in continuous loops. The off-set was the incoming revenue from game-night parkers. UND could either operate the shuttle at a loss (which they appear to have been doing, by their own self-serving admission), increase revenues to break even, or try to actually make money. The question for me is, what was the extent of the loss? Not everything has to make money. Do the daily, campuswide student shuttles run in the black, for example? There are some things you can't measure on a balance sheet: customer satisfaction, doing the right thing, not having people slip-and-fall or worse in traffic or adverse weather. Not only that, the ramp is a resource that is already being underutilized. Why have it sit empty on game nights, when the shuttle for years seems to have been a good (if not perfect) complement to game night operations. I have heard it said that there were legitimate proposals to save the shuttle, and that they fell on deaf institutional ears. Maybe some enterprising sort would like to pursue that from an open records angle.
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