geaux_sioux Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'm watching a recording of 'When They Were Kings' and getting a lot of memories of what UND football used to look like and what it looks like now. The beginning of the program shows the ineptitude of UND in the late 80's against NDSU and it's like watching replays from the Montana and MSU games. Then thesecond part of the football program comes on and I see highlights of UND's defense and guys are destroying opponents. Then there are highlights of the offense. The QB's were always accurate at least and the power running game was a constant. Then come the Kleinsasser highlights.... he's bigger than our offensive linemen. The biggest differences though are the heart, passion, and grit that the players played with. So what made UND great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Hmmmm.........like looking at an old Penthouse and floggin' the dog........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Defense. It was as good or better than the opposing team's offense most every game. They had a chance coming into most every game from 1993-2007. They recruited defense and won with it. Thought I would take a peek at the defensive stats thus far in 2013. Here are a few that are unbelievably alarming: 1. The UND secondary has TWO pass breakups all year. TWO. The opposing teams have attempted 93 passes and the terrible UND secondary has broke up two of them. Yet they jump around and talk sh*t all game to the opposing receivers. It blows my mind how clueless these guys are about their worth as a football player. They are the worst defensive backs in the conference, by far. Yet they girate and strut around all game but are never where they should be once the route is run. 2. The secondary has zero interceptions. 3. The defense has three sacks - all year. Zero by the defensive line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Serious answer...what made UND good over the years. It was trying to keep pace with NDSU. They were winning championships in the 80s and UND had to keep up. Luckily for UND, NDSU was on the top of the division for most of the decade. If UNDs main rivalry was St Cloud or Augustana....well you know the rest. Why does western ND high school suck at hockey? Or should we ask why is the east so good? The east competes and tries to keep up with Minnesota. While the west tries to keep up with the east. What makes the SEC great at football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Serious answer...what made UND good over the years. It was trying to keep pace with NDSU. They were winning championships in the 80s and UND had to keep up. Luckily for UND, NDSU was on the top of the division for most of the decade. If UNDs main rivalry was St Cloud or Augustana....well you know the rest. Why does western ND high school suck at hockey? Or should we ask why is the east so good? The east competes and tries to keep up with Minnesota. While the west tries to keep up with the east. What makes the SEC great at football? I think you make a great point here. Montana is the ndsu of the BSC. One would think trying to keep up with them should yield equally satisfying results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 And that's probably why these two blowout losses probably mean so much to us fans. Not only the way UND lost but who it was too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 What makes the SEC great at football? Cheating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 And Bill Belichick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 This time in football reminds me of growing up in GF, riding my bike or walking from my parents house to Memorial Stadium (1985-1990) sitting into a stadium with maybe 2000 fans watching UND getting beat by Augy, NDSU, USD or whoever. There was very little hype for football because across the east lot into the Ralph UND was preparing for their 3rd NC of the decade. Hockey will always be big at UND, and there was no talk about moving funds over to football from hockey to kickstart the program. So all of a sudden after 1990 UND started to get competitive...why? NDSU was winning NCC titles every year, even USD went to a NC game, why did UND go from being competitive with Augy and Morningside to being a threat for the NCC title? They changed their defensive scheme when they brought in Dale Lennon as DC. His job was to stop the veer of NDSU, and UND had to find an offense that worked (running the ball). Kurt Otto was gone and UND started running ball better and better, and the defense started making it hard on NDSU barely losing in 91, and 92. Then 93,94,95,96 UND was on top by not only beating NDSU but by getting to the top, and staying there, and at the same time hockey did hit a stumble with Gino in the early 90's until Dean Blais took over and UND won NC in 97 and 00. Both sports can be on top without moving funds or even dropping a sport to favor the other. UND wasn't afraid to let a guy who won 3 NC's in 7 years go who wasn't getting it done. Muss started in 08 and the only title he has is a shared title with Cal Poly for the GWFC title (if there was a tiebreaker CP would have won it). So fire Muss, start over, and get this team back to defeating UNI, NDSU, and most importantly....get to those playoffs and WIN! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 This time in football reminds me of growing up in GF, riding my bike or walking from my parents house to Memorial Stadium (1985-1990) sitting into a stadium with maybe 2000 fans watching UND getting beat by Augy, NDSU, USD or whoever. There was very little hype for football because across the east lot into the Ralph UND was preparing for their 3rd NC of the decade. Hockey will always be big at UND, and there was no talk about moving funds over to football from hockey to kickstart the program. So all of a sudden after 1990 UND started to get competitive...why? NDSU was winning NCC titles every year, even USD went to a NC game, why did UND go from being competitive with Augy and Morningside to being a threat for the NCC title? They changed their defensive scheme when they brought in Dale Lennon as DC. His job was to stop the veer of NDSU, and UND had to find an offense that worked (running the ball). Kurt Otto was gone and UND started running ball better and better, and the defense started making it hard on NDSU barely losing in 91, and 92. Then 93,94,95,96 UND was on top by not only beating NDSU but by getting to the top, and staying there, and at the same time hockey did hit a stumble with Gino in the early 90's until Dean Blais took over and UND won NC in 97 and 00. Both sports can be on top without moving funds or even dropping a sport to favor the other. UND wasn't afraid to let a guy who won 3 NC's in 7 years go who wasn't getting it done. Muss started in 08 and the only title he has is a shared title with Cal Poly for the GWFC title (if there was a tiebreaker CP would have won it). So fire Muss, start over, and get this team back to defeating UNI, NDSU, and most importantly....get to those playoffs and WIN! A nice, succinct description of what is happening and what needs to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I agree with everything but the Ndsu/uni part. UND needs to focus on EWU, UM, and MSU. Focusing on the MVFC is a distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Q: What made UND great? A: Blocking and tackling. When you can't do either, you aren't great. Harsh, but there it is. But I know these guys can do both ... but aren't. That screams "lack of supervisory leadership" commonly called "coaching". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I remember Bohl saying they looked at the top teams in the MVFC and said he tried to emulate what they (uni) were doing to win. Is it possible Muss is trying to transform the program in the last couple of years into what he views as one that competes in the BSC, and that endgame, while still a work in progress, is simply a style of play which is different from what we've known Sioux football to be? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 I remember Bohl saying they looked at the top teams in the MVFC and said he tried to emulate what they (uni) were doing to win. Is it possible Muss is trying to transform the program in the last couple of years into what he views as one that competes in the BSC, and that endgame, while still a work in progress, is simply a style of play which is different from what we've known Sioux football to be? Just a thought. We would dominate the Big Sky playing the style of football we used to with a smashmouth defense power run game and extremely efficient and sometimes explosive passing game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We would dominate the Big Sky playing the style of football we used to with a smashmouth defense power run game and extremely efficient and sometimes explosive passing game. I agree, with such a drastic transformation in the team, I'm just wondering if Muss shares that vision of what a BSC champ should look like. Between a run game featuring a RB the size of miller, and this defense, it doesnt seem to represent raditional UND in philosophy or performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 I agree, with such a drastic transformation in the team, I'm just wondering if Muss shares that vision of what a BSC champ should look like. Between a run game featuring a RB the size of miller, and this defense, it doesnt seem to represent raditional UND in philosophy or performance. It's kind of strange to think that there could be a positive from Saturday but we kind of ran the ball.... I was almost impressed with that. The linemen made something happen more than once. The only problem was that it was Miller only and not Shaugs Sparks and Garmin as well. Need to run and take pressure off of the QBs who after all are still fr. Time to focus more on the running game and make life easier for the qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabe01 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 As a Bison fan I can honestly say I'm surprised how far the team has fallen. As an observer, it all starts with defense and that seems to be the theme throughout the Big Sky. You need to figure out how to stop Big Sky offenses because its really really ugly. I wouldn't blame Mussman entirely for the bad defense. How about the defensive coaches? You have some talent. They are not developing players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 As a Bison fan I can honestly say I'm surprised how far the team has fallen. As an observer, it all starts with defense and that seems to be the theme throughout the Big Sky. You need to figure out how to stop Big Sky offenses because its really really ugly. I wouldn't blame Mussman entirely for the bad defense. How about the defensive coaches? Well gabe01, Mussman is the head coach. That means he is king of the castle. He decides who works there and who doesn't. He decides who gets scholarship offers and who doesn't. And he's been there for 5+ seasons now as king of the castle. Ultimately, it's his responsibility what the final product looks like. And this is the worst team we have had in about 25 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 As a Bison fan I can honestly say I'm surprised how far the team has fallen. As an observer, it all starts with defense and that seems to be the theme throughout the Big Sky. You need to figure out how to stop Big Sky offenses because its really really ugly. I wouldn't blame Mussman entirely for the bad defense. How about the defensive coaches? You have some talent. They are not developing players Would the Bison fans quit reading the MVFC press notes about how much defense they play? You guys keep spreading that "group-think" crap around and it isn't supported by any facts. The MV defenses are no better than any other top conference (minus NDSU). Look at the OOC scores and past playoff scores and you will see the results. Many MV teams got lit up bigtime in the first three weeks of OOC play. The difference is the offense's in the MV play run first, close to the vest type of style's which leads to lower scores. Therefore, the scores drop dramatically once conference play begins. Their defenses are good solid defenses but no better on average than any other conference's, like Big Sky or CAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 ndsu fans make the mistake of thinking that because this year's bison team may have the best defense in the history of fcs football, that the rest of the conference plays defense anywhere near their level. They don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabe01 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Would the Bison fans quit reading the MVFC press notes about how much defense they play? You guys keep spreading that "group-think" crap around and it isn't supported by any facts. The MV defenses are no better than any other top conference (minus NDSU). Look at the OOC scores and past playoff scores and you will see the results. Many MV teams got lit up bigtime in the first three weeks of OOC play. The difference is the offense's in the MV play run first, close to the vest type of style's which leads to lower scores. Therefore, the scores drop dramatically once conference play begins. Their defenses are good solid defenses but no better on average than any other conference's, like Big Sky or CAA. Ask Sam Houston about Big Sky defenses. The entire conference is built on winning during the regular season. When the playoffs come around, teams from other conferences run the ball with relative ease. I think Montana and Poly are built for the playoffs. Montana State gets the ball run down their throat and good defenses shut them down, especially when weather is a factor since they play outdoors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Ask Sam Houston about Big Sky defenses. The entire conference is built on winning during the regular season. When the playoffs come around, teams from other conferences run the ball with relative ease. I think Montana and Poly are built for the playoffs. Montana State gets the ball run down their throat and good defenses shut them down, especially when weather is a factor since they play outdoors If you look at years past I think you can find plenty of examples of games where Big Sky teams had good and bad defensive performances. As someone mentioned earlier, FU is kind of the defensive exception to the conference. There is nothing I have seen from a MVFC team other than FU that makes me think their defenses are any better than anything I have seen in the Big Sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabe01 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 If you look at years past I think you can find plenty of examples of games where Big Sky teams had good and bad defensive performances. As someone mentioned earlier, FU is kind of the defensive exception to the conference. There is nothing I have seen from a MVFC team other than FU that makes me think their defenses are any better than anything I have seen in the Big Sky. No matter how you shake it, a different style of game is played in the Big Sky vs the Missouri Valley. Big Sky throws a lot. MVFC pounds the ball. The MVFC teams are used to physical play. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or better or worse - but it's just different. But late season games are typically won on the ground. 2012 CONFERNCE STATS SCORING DEFENSE Big Sky - 246 (31 ppg) MVC - 171 (21 ppg) 2013 CONFERENCE STATS (Ok it's only 1 game) SCORING DEFENSE Big - 27.5 MVC - 19.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 No matter how you shake it, a different style of game is played in the Big Sky vs the Missouri Valley. Big Sky throws a lot. MVFC pounds the ball. The MVFC teams are used to physical play. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or better or worse - but it's just different. But late season games are typically won on the ground. 2012 CONFERNCE STATS SCORING DEFENSE Big Sky - 246 (31 ppg) MVC - 171 (21 ppg) 2013 CONFERENCE STATS (Ok it's only 1 game) SCORING DEFENSE Big - 27.5 MVC - 19.5 As someone already said, just because the MCFV offenses don't score against the MVFC defenses doesn't mean the defenses are better all-around. Looking at the OOC games this year, the MVFC defenses have shown nothing that indicates they are better than any other conference as a whole (outside of NDSU's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 No matter how you shake it, a different style of game is played in the Big Sky vs the Missouri Valley. No kidding? Great football mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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