Resurrecting the Tradition of Excellence

[fightingsioux4life]

This is a long post, but I believe that these things must be said and must be said in public, in front of all our fans, so we can come to terms with one painful truth:

These are dark days for the Fighting Sioux Empire.

During my childhood years of the 1980’s, I watched Fighting Sioux hockey win 3 NCAA titles (1980, 1982 and 1987) and provide me with lots of great memories in the old Ralph Engelstad Arena (RIP old friend). During my college years of the 1990’s, I witnessed some of the greatest collegiate sports teams to ever grace our Grand Forks, ND campus. NCAA hockey titles in 1997 and 2000 and four WCHA titles (1997, 1998, 1999 and 2001). NCAA women’s basketball titles in 1997-1998-1999. Football teams that would lay the foundation for the 2001 NCAA title team that we still all remember with great fondness. But after that long-awaited football championship on December 8^th, 2001, a series of setbacks took place that I believe still jinx us to this day:

· The overtime loss to Boston College in the 2001 NCAA hockey title game

· The overtime loss to Cal-Poly Pomona in the 2001 NCAA women’s basketball title game

· The Men’s Basketball program losing to such powerhouse programs as U of Mary in Bismarck (in 2003, by 40 points), Sioux Falls College and Minot State

· The loss to Grand Valley State in the 2003 NCAA football title game

· The Women’s Basketball program underachieving in postseason play on an annual basis

· The devastating football loss to Neb-Omaha (and our nemesis Pat Behrns) in the Alerus Center in October 2005 that ruined what was shaping up to be another national title team. I honestly think the program has never totally recovered from that meltdown in the 4^th quarter

I collectively define this tragic series of events as “Runner up U” syndrome. We became the program that served as stepping stones for other programs (Grand Valley State, Boston College) on their way to championships. That long-held standard of excellence that we took so much pride in slowly eroded; our fans got accustomed to falling short in the playoffs and that apathy took root. And then there are the institutional screw-ups:

· The kowtowing to the management of Ralph Engelstad Arena, Inc. by the UND athletic department during the Roger Thomas era in the early years did no favors for the hockey program or any of our other teams. To this day, I cannot reconcile in my mind the athletic department being six figures in the red while REA was raking in the cash from alcohol, concession and merchandise sales. During its planning and construction phases, the new REA was promoted as being a cash cow for UND athletics and we were told that all revenues would go to UND to fund their athletic endeavors. The last time I checked, 2+2=5 only in George Orwell dystopian novels. While I believe our relationship with REA has improved greatly over the years, I also believe that damage was done to our programs during those early years.

· The botched decision-making process on the Division I move by President Charles Kupchella and Athletic Director Roger Thomas that we are still paying for today. This shouldn’t surprise anyone since Kupchella barely tolerated the existence of intercollegiate athletics and Thomas (while a really nice guy and class act) was not the best AD that UND ever had

· The hiring of Tom Buning as Athletic Director, which resulted in really bad football contract deals ($20,000 buyouts?) and a general degrading of morale within the walls of the athletic department

· I also believe Buning deserves at least some of the blame for Dale Lennon leaving UND for Southern Illinois in December 2007, just as we were embarking on our Division I transition period. I honestly believe that Lennon got sick and tired of the lack of resources being allocated for the football program and wanted to go someplace where football wasn’t a red-headed stepchild to the fair-haired boy on campus (hockey). I think a little extra money might have kept him here. But we were just too cheap to come up with it. And the program really suffered as a result

· Losing Lennon contributed to the ultimate disaster of the transition period; losing to Sioux Falls College (an NAIA program at the time) at home in 2009. And the fact that the game wasn’t even close made it even harder to swallow. This loss hurt the reputation of the program and really soured the fan base on the program. I believe it is, without question, the worst loss in program history. And I believe we still, to this day, haven’t totally recovered from it.

Some might argue that dredging up all this sludge from the sea floor of sports history is a big, pointless waste of time. I disagree. I believe that all these events collectively impact the future and help define the boundaries our coaches and players must operate in. Despite Big Sky membership (which I am very excited about), despite having an indoor football arena (which is so important during October and November in North Dakota) and despite having a very nice (and homey) basketball arena in the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, our programs have yet to shake off the Division I transition growing pains. Men’s Basketball is showing some signs of life, but still hasn’t proven itself as a consistent winner. Women’s Basketball has really deteriorated to the point where a total rebuilding is in order. Football has potential this season, but I think people are still taking a “wait and see” attitude towards the program.

As for hockey, Hakstol’s teams continue to win games and have some success in the postseason. But that old, hard fought and well-deserved tradition of winning the big games in March and April has taken somewhat of a beating during the past 13 years. I have heard every excuse in the book. The “hot goalie” excuse. The “one and done format” excuse. The “lucky bounces” excuse. The “Jerry York hasn’t retired yet” excuse. At some point, you run out of excuses and you have to face up to the fact that this program no longer wins the big games like it used to. And I believe that part of the problem is the $104 million Palace on the Prairie.

Ever since the new REA opened in October 2001, our program has been stacked with NHL draft picks on an annual basis. But All-Star teams don’t always win championships. Teams with great chemistry and teamwork win championships more often. I think our program has become a quasi minor league team for blue chip players who are on their way to bigger and better things. The players we have now are more focused on their NHL careers (and the money that comes with it) than they are of winning national championships. Players that likely won’t make the NHL will focus on winning collegiate championships because that would be the pinnacle of their careers. At some point between the opening of this hockey palace and today, we have lost that focus on achieving that immortality that comes with winning championships at the highest level.

Another problem is that our fans are spoiled having a palace like REA to watch games in. It becomes a place to “be seen” and to close out business deals. I honestly think some of the so-called “fans” at our home games don’t know the different between off-sides and icing. This makes not winning championships more tolerable. As long as we can go to REA on Friday and Saturday nights with our kids wearing jerseys that are two sizes too big for them, eat our extreme nachos and Bavarian almonds, drink our beer, hobnob with every VIP in Grand Forks and watch future NHL players on the ice, we are happy with having teams that post winning records every season, but fall short in March and April. I think this is a normal human reaction to circumstances like these and I am not bashing our fans for it. But I also feel it is unfortunate that the standard of excellence described by Cary Eades, "Greatness at North Dakota is measured in national championships" has faded away over the past 10 years or so. And I think that standard should apply to football as well.

This in sharp contrast to what is happening in Imperial Cass County (specifically, on the campus of NDSU). While we wallow in the mire of bad administrative decisions and lowered expectations, NDSU has brought home back to back FCS titles, scored several wins over FBS programs and totally taken over the headlines and media coverage region-wide. With their prominent media mouthpieces KFGO 790 AM and KVLY Channel 11 talking Bison athletics 24/7/365 and UND relegated to the obsolete WDAY 970 AM and the still nascent Midco Sports Net, UND has become almost invisible regionally and nationally. We are “that other school in North Dakota”, which means we don’t even exist in some people’s minds. It’s all about Craig “Mr. Clean” Bohl, Saul Phillips and his “Slummit” League Men’s Basketball team and Scott “My Oh My” Miller with all his cute little comments (“There’s your dagger!”). Meanwhile, UND is known for half-full crowds at home football games and hockey games in a fancy, state-of-the-art arena where championships have taken a back seat to beer and bratwursts.

Can the athletic department turn this around? Can we gain a foothold in the media and in the hearts and minds of people across the Dakotas and Minnesota once again? The answer to both questions is yes. We have great conference homes for our marquee sports (Big Sky, NCHC) and we have excellent facilities. However, I think Mr. Faison and Mr. Kelley (and those of us in the stands) need to start demanding and expecting excellence in both the classroom and on the court/field/ice. Without high expectations, greatness is impossible. For example, a 5-6 finish in football this season (with 7 of our games at home) would be unacceptable for a head coach that has been on the job since 2008 and who recently received a contract extension. I believe the men’s basketball team needs to show us something this season or it might be time for a change at the top of that program. I also believe that, sooner or later, the men’s hockey team will have to close the deal in March and April to maintain that hard-earned reputation as an elite program in NCAA hockey. Women’s basketball and hockey, I believe, deserve more time to get to that level.

In conclusion, the recent demolition of the old REA (home of numerous championship teams) and the continued success of NDSU in football (and to a lesser extent men’s basketball) have crystallized in my mind just how far we’ve fallen from where we once were and just how difficult it will be to get back there. I really hope we can do it. Otherwise, we’ll be sitting around tables in coffee shops and bars ten years from now talking about the good old days of UND sports in the 1980’s and 90’s and how it will likely never be that way again.

I don’t want that to happen. Do you?

[southpaw]

So many inaccurate and contradictory points in this post. It's obviously very early in the morning but I'll take a brief stab at at rebuttal:

During my childhood years of the 1980’s, I watched Fighting Sioux hockey win 3 NCAA titles (1980, 1982 and 1987) and provide me with lots of great memories in the old Ralph Engelstad Arena... Ever since the new REA opened in October 2001, our program has been stacked with NHL draft picks on an annual basis. But All-Star teams don’t always win championships.

Those teams of the 80's were just as stacked with NHL draft picks and all-star teams as the teams of today. Those teams won national championships because they had the best players in the nation. It was an incredible mix of all stars plus four year players with dedication to UND. You want championship teams like the 80s, but you don't realize that those championships were won because of studs.

Football teams that would lay the foundation for the 2001 NCAA title team that we still all remember with great fondness.

What does that even mean? These teams happened to play football prior to a championship team? Who is to say that the teams playing right now are not "laying the foundation" for future championship teams? You expect them to win championships NOW but you don't criticize the teams of the late 90's for not actually winning any championships.

As to your next point about all of the runner up finishes/close losses. I find it hard to believe that games 8-10 years ago are still having an effect today. How many staff members, players, etc are still even around from some of those losses? Don't try and tell me that a loss in the final stages of D2 is going to carry over 10 years and affect the women's basketball team today.

The kowtowing to the management of Ralph Engelstad Arena, Inc. by the UND athletic department during the Roger Thomas era in the early years did no favors for the hockey program or any of our other teams.

Later on you go to say that you're sick and tired of all of the people showing up to UND hockey games at the Ralph. You whine about UND not getting any favors from the Ralph, especially early on. Ralph Engelstad spent $110+ million on a brand new arena. That increased the capacity from 6,000 to 11,400. That's nearly double the attendance allowed for UND hockey games. How is that not doing a favor to UND or the hockey program? Often "gifts" of that magnitude are going to come with some strings attached. If you truly believe having the Ralph is a hinderence to UND hockey then you don't understand the importance of that building to recruiting, funding and media exposure for UND. The school recently signed a contract with Midco sports net to broadcast all of their home games. Do you think that would have happened in the old Ralph with 6,000 people attending games in an arena that was getting dated? Not very likely.

The botched decision-making process on the Division I move by President Charles Kupchella and Athletic Director Roger Thomas that we are still paying for today.

UND could not afford the move to D1 at the time. Regardless of how it turned out for other schools, you can't look back at history and say UND should have moved up when the funding was not there. Hindsight is 20/20 but to sit here and criticize is pointless. UND couldn't afford it so they didn't make the move. After gaining a significant amount of new funding via the new Ralph Engelstad Arena and the popularity of the hockey team, UND moved up to D1.

I believe that all these events collectively impact the future and help define the boundaries our coaches and players must operate in.

I'm thankful the coaches, players and admin don't believe they are held down by some mystical boundaries that were set by teams 5+ years ago. You say the current UND teams aren't moving on from the losses of 10+ years ago. Why is it just the losses that matter? Do you give the 2000 UND hockey team credit for helping to inspire the three consecutive Broadmoor championships won the by Sioux in the past few years?

Despite Big Sky membership (which I am very excited about), despite having an indoor football arena (which is so important during October and November in North Dakota) and despite having a very nice (and homey) basketball arena in the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center, our programs have yet to shake off the Division I transition growing pains.

Maybe they haven't shaken off the D1 transition growing pains becuase these teams are starting their second year of play in the Big Sky following the D1 transition. The NDSU team you glowingly talk about later in your post went 3-8 in their second year of football following the transition. By the way, how many schools would love to have a "homey" little arena that was free to the university and houses both the basketball and volleyball teams? Check out the mighty NDSU and see how all of their success has helped them renovate the BSA.

As for hockey, Hakstol’s teams continue to win games and have some success in the postseason. But that old, hard fought and well-deserved tradition of winning the big games in March and April has taken somewhat of a beating during the past 13 years. I have heard every excuse in the book.

UND had undoubtedly the best team in the nation in 1998. You don't hear about choking and losing the big games in March and April about that team. Things are considerably different than they were in the every other decade of college hockey. Yale just won the national championship. Miami was seconds away from winning it a few years ago. The best team does not always win. The team everyone expected to win does not always do so. UND has had some very good teams but only twice would I say they were the odds-on favorite to win the National Championship. Those excuses you speak of are parts of the game of hockey. How did the LA Kings win the Stanley Cup in 2012? Something called a hot goalie played a major role in that.

With their prominent media mouthpieces KFGO 790 AM and KVLY Channel 11 talking Bison athletics 24/7/365 and UND relegated to the obsolete WDAY 970 AM and the still nascent Midco Sports Net, UND has become almost invisible regionally and nationally.

Please show me this 24/7 coverage by any station in Fargo. NDSU gets some games broadcast on statewide TV, so congrats there's 600,000+ people who could watch a game. I don't see how that helps improve their national presence. UND football and basketball are carried nationally on FCS thanks to Midco Sports Net. The UND hockey team has games broadcast on CBSSN. Yup, UND sporst are invisible.

We are “that other school in North Dakota”, which means we don’t even exist in some people’s minds.

You whine about all these people showing up to UND hockey games and then you go on and on about how UND sports are nonexistent. Got it.

In conclusion, the recent demolition of the old REA (home of numerous championship teams) and the continued success of NDSU in football (and to a lesser extent men’s basketball) have crystallized in my mind just how far we’ve fallen from where we once were and just how difficult it will be to get back there.

How does the destruction of an out of date, never used building crystalize in your mind how far we've fallen? You conveniently forgot to mention the early 90's of UND hockey when things were really bad. When NCAA tournaments were a pipe dream instead of a consistent goal. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that you only picked the winning teams of the end of the D2 era and then compared them to the losing teams of the D1 transition days. There's a huge difference in competition. As I wrote above, UND has played one full season following the D1 transition. The mens' basketball team finished 3rd (and nearly made the championship game) of one of the toughest one-bid leagues in the nation. The hockey team lost to the eventual nataionl champion with a team that was one win away from winning the MacNaughton cup. The football team played arguably the most difficult schedule of all FCS teams last year and was a missed 12-men-on-the-field penalty from finishing the season above .500.

[fightingsioux4life]

I knew I would get raked over the hot coals for expressing any opinions that don't follow the "ducky and bunny" field manual. I will stand by these comments until I am proven otherwise by our teams. I will gladly eat crow if our teams prove my pessimism wrong.

[southpaw]

I knew I would get raked over the hot coals for expressing any opinions that don't follow the "ducky and bunny" field manual. I will stand by these comments until I am proven otherwise by our teams. I will gladly eat crow if our teams prove my pessimism wrong.

How is it possible for the teams to prove that losses 10 years ago don't affect the teams now? If the teams win, does that mean the "curse" is suddenly over? If a team loses, is it because of the 2003 football team losing in the national championship game?

It's not that you aren't toeing the company line... it's that none of what you said actually made sense.

[The Sicatoka]

It's never as bad as you think it is in bad times.

It's never as good as you think it is in good times.

[ScottM]

This was probably the most incoherent screed I've seen on this site in a long time. Perhaps the writer needs to change his hande to "fightingsiouxwheneverwewin".

[zonadub]

reading what 4life wrote, i came away with a feeling that he is expressing a frustration with the acceptance of 5 and 6 football seasons, frozen four appearances without titles, etc as the way it is for the team formerly known as the Fighting Sioux.

The loss of the proud nickname, the destruction of the home of the national championship hockey teams, the acceptance that DI is just too tough for UND to expect excellence and championships, even conference championships, has become the norm for Kelley and Faison and many of the followers of UND athletics... while you may not agree with how it is written, I think the point needed to be made.

a little older than 4life, i graduated from UND the last year Rube Bjorkman was the hockey coach - the hockey team was not a winner. On the other hand, Dave Gunther led strong winning basketball teams, Jerry Olson & Gene Murphy were consistently in the fray for NCC titles. These teams did build a foundation for the athletic department, because it was building a winning tradition that attracted superior athletes with winners' attitudes.

Then along came Gino and the hockey team turned around - second to Minnesota in the national championship, followed by a national championship and 2 more over the next few years . The tradition was being established. Blais carried through with two more national titles by the turn of the century. At the same time, the football and women's basketball teams were also making their national title runs.

Now, excuse makers are saying the coaches need more time to build their trophy case teams, or that the stars move on to the pro ranks too soon, or that the ... (you go ahead and name it, we've all read them many times)

While national championships are hard to win, the AC has managed to win 2 in a row (yes, Hayduke, they are not THE national football championship) and look like a good bet to bring home #3 next January. They just won a nationally televised game against the defending Big 12 champion (as in the conference that is the home of Texas football). Meanwhile the UND football team has 7 home games this year, and of the 4 road games, 2 of them are against perennial bottom half of the conference teams. Even with freshman quarterback(s), this team should be able to make the playoffs. If Mussman continues to play quarterback roulette and misses the opportunity he has this year, it is time to find someone who can lead the team over the hump. He appears to be an outstanding recruiter, but can't bring the game to the field.

I don't follow the hockey team as closely, but it is time to close the deal there too. Hakstol, is also an outstanding recruiter, but seems to have difficulty making in-game adjustments when the opponents have an answer to the plan he has developed going into the game.

As Larry the Cable Guy says, it's time to "git 'er done".

[MafiaMan]

· The overtime loss to Boston College in the 2001 NCAA hockey title game

Yea, that one sucked. Seconds after tinging one off the post, BC scores. I still remember Goehring trying in vain to belly-flop poke-check the puck away, only to fail (unfortunately) and leave a totally empty net for the game-winner. Kris effing Kolanos...

[ericpnelson]

It's never as bad as you think it is in bad times.

It's never as good as you think it is in good times.

I watched Blow last night, so the last person I heard say that ended up with a 60 year sentence and his daughter won't visit him.

[MafiaMan]

I watched Blow last night, so the last person I heard say that ended up with a 60 year sentence and his daughter won't visit him.

Penelope Cruz...yea...she's hot.

[mksioux]

Man, you are going to get roasted for that post fightingsioux4life. I don't necessarily agree with everything in your post, but I share your frustration and commend you for the effort. You definitely will touch a few nerves with your post. Take the jabs that will be coming your way with a grain of salt.

[mksioux]

· The devastating football loss to Neb-Omaha (and our nemesis Pat Behrns) in the Alerus Center in October 2005 that ruined what was shaping up to be another national title team. I honestly think the program has never totally recovered from that meltdown in the 4^th quarter

I was at the game and will never forget it. What I remember the most about that 4th quarter was the atrocious clock management by the UND offense. The offense was consistently snapping the ball with 15-20 seconds to go on the play clock. Sometimes they'd snap it right after the ball was set. I'm not a great football mind, but to this day, I don't know what they were thinking. I'd love to see a tape of that game and figure out how much extra time UND gave UNO to complete the comeback.

[Siouxperfan7]

Not to compare programs with Notre Dame (why not since our logos are similar ) But why don't we. I would say Notre Dame has one of the most storied football program in all of college football. True they made a run the the title game this year, but the last time they won a National Championship in football was 1988. Mens basketball it was 1936. Hockey has never won one. The only Championship in one of their major sports they have wone in the last 25 years was womens basketball in 2001. Now do you think that there are fans/alumni/etc. that are concerned that their programs have not accomplished anything? Maybe. But I think you need to put it all in persepctive. Heck, even the almighty Bison went 22 years between Championships in football!!

The D1 transistion is over, the nickname issue is behins us, We are in a great and stable conference, our games are broadcast across the country which gives our programs exposure, UND continues to build multi million dollar faciclites, fundraising efforts like the spirit campaign are going to provide schoorships and other resopuirces for all our atheletes. If is exciting times for UND atheletics. The "good old days" are now if you ask me with better days to come!!

[MafiaMan]

I would say Notre Dame had one of the most storied football program in all of college football.

Fixed your post.

Play like your fake internet girlfriend died today!

[scpa0305]

I knew I would get raked over the hot coals for expressing any opinions that don't follow the "ducky and bunny" field manual. I will stand by these comments until I am proven otherwise by our teams. I will gladly eat crow if our teams prove my pessimism wrong.

I think a lot of what you said is true. I am only going to comment on hockey because that is where my passion lies....I love und but also have to get back to work. We have always pulled in top notch recruits/players....the game has simply changed for Americans. Kids are playing hockey everywhere and the college game is getting deeper...in essence more teams have depth. Also we lose players but not at a rate greater than many other teams....everyone loses players evey year (go check the gophs or goons most recent article). We are just going through a rough patch....last years team just didn't play up to expectations, plain and simple. Better luck this year.

[jdub27]

I knew I would get raked over the hot coals for expressing any opinions that don't follow the "ducky and bunny" field manual. I will stand by these comments until I am proven otherwise by our teams. I will gladly eat crow if our teams prove my pessimism wrong.

Just becasue someone doesn't agree with the 5 page manifesto you wrote doesn't mean they are following the "ducky and bunny" field manual, whatever that is. As pointed out earlier, there are numerous contradictions and non-sensical points. Tough to agree with some of the arguments your are making when they just don't pass the sniff test. You do have some very valid points, but I think you are trying to hard to come up some convoluted reasoning for whatever it is you want your point to be.

[mksioux]

· The botched decision-making process on the Division I move by President Charles Kupchella and Athletic Director Roger Thomas that we are still paying for today. This shouldn’t surprise anyone since Kupchella barely tolerated the existence of intercollegiate athletics and Thomas (while a really nice guy and class act) was not the best AD that UND ever had

This really is at the heart of the problems outside of hockey. NDSU had a President, despite his many faults, that recognized the importance of athletics. UND did not.

· The hiring of Tom Buning as Athletic Director, which resulted in really bad football contract deals ($20,000 buyouts?) and a general degrading of morale within the walls of the athletic department

· I also believe Buning deserves at least some of the blame for Dale Lennon leaving UND for Southern Illinois in December 2007, just as we were embarking on our Division I transition period. I honestly believe that Lennon got sick and tired of the lack of resources being allocated for the football program and wanted to go someplace where football wasn’t a red-headed stepchild to the fair-haired boy on campus (hockey). I think a little extra money might have kept him here. But we were just too cheap to come up with it. And the program really suffered as a result.

By most accounts, Buning was a disaster as A.D. But you have to give him some credit for somehow convincing Kupchella to authorize the move up to Division I. That wouldn't have likely happened if Roger Thomas had stayed as A.D. And the NCAA closed the door to moving up shortly after UND made the decision to move up. As bad as you think things are now, without Buning, UND would likely still be competing against Augustana and Winona State and losing to Grand Valley State in the DII playoffs every year. I'll gladly take where things are now to what things would be like if UND had been left behind in DII.

[MafiaMan]

This really is at the heart of the problems outside of hockey. NDSU had a President, despite his many faults, that recognized the importance of athletics. UND did not.

By most accounts, Buning was a disaster as A.D. But you have to give him some credit for somehow convincing Kupchella to authorize the move up to Division I. That wouldn't have likely happened if Roger Thomas had stayed as A.D. And the NCAA closed the door to moving up shortly after UND made the decision to move up. As bad as you think things are now, without Buning, UND would likely still be competing against Augustana and Winona State and losing to Grand Valley State in the DII playoffs every year. I'll gladly take where things are now to what things would be like if UND had been left behind in DII.

I seem to recall UND telling anyone and everyone after NDSU's bombshell D-1 announcement that the school was content in D-2 and had no plans to move up to D-1, something I called BS on almost immediately. Did anyone really believe that or was the thought that UND would almost immediately try to figure out how NDSU pulled it off and try to follow suit as soon as humanly possible?

[ScottM]

I seem to recall UND telling anyone and everyone after NDSU's bombshell D-1 announcement that the school was content in D-2 and had no plans to move up to D-1, something I called BS on almost immediately. Did anyone really believe that or was the thought that UND would almost immediately try to figure out how NDSU pulled it off and try to follow suit as soon as humanly possible?

I honestly wondered why a school of UND's size didn't go D1 a decade or more ago. Once 'su went D1 it was basically a foregone conclusion UND would follow suit, since the politics in the state and changes within the NC$$ really demanded the move. I'm glad we did go D1, even though the transitional period has (edit: Not) been up to the D2 "standards" of yore.

[Wilbur]

I'll never ever accept the idea that UND is "The other university in North Dakota". No way.

Part of NDSU being in the news a lot of the year is the legal issues you see happening during the summer. I'm glad as hell I didn't see a video of one of our players drunk and ignorant sitting in the back of a cop car making an @ss out of himself. Or that one of our players was staring at 12 year old girls in a mall fondling himself. That stuff makes news on top of other news.

Someone already said it....it comes in waves. Ten years ago the Bison were on the verge of the DI transition, and for a few years nobody could have cared less about NDSU Football. Lots of blue seats open in the Fargo Dome those days. Now they're the coolest thing in Cass county and Travis Beck's home town since sliced bread.

As far as basketball goes.....best team in school history for SU a few years ago, and they went one and done in the NCAA tournament. No chance ever for a basketball championship for either school. Some day UND may beat a major conference team, but competing for a national championship is not reality.

[mksioux]

I honestly wondered why a school of UND's size didn't go D1 a decade or more ago. Once 'su went D1 it was basically a foregone conclusion UND would follow suit, since the politics in the state and changes within the NC$$ really demanded the move. I'm glad we did go D1, even though the transitional period has been up to the D2 "standards" of yore.

Perhaps it was inevitable that UND would move up eventually after SU announced, but I I'm not at all convinced UND would have moved up in time before the moratorium if Roger Thomas had stayed the A.D. I don't remember the exact timing, but the NCAA put a moratorium on moving up shortly after UND announced it was moving up.

UND and NDSU should have moved up in 1978 as soon as Division I-AA was created.

[fightingsioux4life]

Just becasue someone doesn't agree with the 5 page manifesto you wrote doesn't mean they are following the "ducky and bunny" field manual, whatever that is. As pointed out earlier, there are numerous contradictions and non-sensical points. Tough to agree with some of the arguments your are making when they just don't pass the sniff test. You do have some very valid points, but I think you are trying to hard to come up some convoluted reasoning for whatever it is you want your point to be.

My point is that most of the time on this forum, whenever someone dares to say something critical or negative about our athletic programs (even if it's true), they get raked over the hot coals for not being a "real fan" or being "spoiled" or whatever other garbage I have seen posted. I like green-colored glasses and I enjoy the taste of green-colored Kool-Aid as much as the next person on here, but I also think some objectivity is healthy for even the most avid fans of this school and athletic program. And that is sorely lacking for some people on here. The simple fact that ScottM chose to make it personal by questioning my loyalty is proof that I struck a nerve with our fan base. And that was the intent of the original posting.

-I will support our teams and this school as long as I am drawing a breath and have a heartbeat. But I will not be a sycophant for any program or any team, no matter who they are. If that makes me the bad guy, so be it.

-If I get a little too emotional and post things when I should get a good night's sleep first, and that makes me the bad guy, so be it. I admit I was in a foul mood when I posted my "manifesto" and probably should have waited until morning. But I think most of my original points would have remained the same anyway.

-If people are going to question my loyalty and commitment to this athletic department and this university and, as a result, label me the bad guy, so be it.

Most of the people on here (minus the FU trolls) love this school and program and want nothing but the best for every team, coach and student-athlete on campus. And I am in that camp. But that sometimes means calling a spade a spade and not calling it something else because that makes everybody feel all warm and fuzzy inside. That was what I was doing in my original post. If some people disagree with it, I can accept that. But I stand by the points I made. And I will happily eat crow if those points are proved wrong by our teams.