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WSJ: Pilot Shortage Looming

SiouxVolley

By SiouxVolley
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SiouxVolley Newbie

SiouxVolley

Posted
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So what will this mean for UND's Aerospace School:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203937004578079391643223634.html'

Federal mandates taking effect next summer will require all newly hired pilots to have at least 1,500 hours of prior flight experience—six times the current minimum—raising the cost and time to train new fliers in an era when pay cuts and more-demanding schedules already have made the profession less attractive. Meanwhile, thousands of senior pilots at major airlines soon will start hitting the mandatory retirement age of 65.

Estimates differ on the problem's magnitude. Airlines for America, a trade group of the largest carriers that collectively employ 50,800 pilots now, cites a study by the University of North Dakota's aviation department that indicates major airlines will need to hire 60,000 pilots by 2025 to replace departures and cover expansion.
watchmaker49 Newbie

watchmaker49

Posted
Posted

So what will this mean for UND's Aerospace School:

http://online.wsj.co...1643223634.html'

Nothing. Since the aviation department tells this to each incoming class for the last 30 years that I know of. As the majors keep parking RJs, cutting routes or replacing routes with one large plane, the rj pilots will move up a seat. Many older pilots retired tryng to save their pensions already. Delta is a great example of this.
watchmaker49 Newbie

watchmaker49

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sounds like pilots should be in a strong negotiating position for better wages. also 1500 flight hours is a lot.

No they don't have a strong negotiating position, anymore. You use to need 1250 just to get in the door at NWA. For too long the regionals got away with hiring pilots that did not have enough experiance and people paid with their life's for it.
watchmaker49 Newbie

watchmaker49

Posted
Posted

how many hours does a typical UND trained pilot have at graduation?

I would guess if they are lucky they might have 500 hours before flight instructing. Before 9/11 a KC-135 pilot at the base got on average 250 hours a year. At least that is what a pilot there told me.
jodcon Newbie

jodcon

Posted
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Why are pilots paid so little if It's not supply and demand?

I read a piece this summer about the airlines cost reducing measures, the ones that stood out in my mind were replacing seats with a streamlined version to hold many more passengers, reducing bag weight to 40 lbs. on most airlines from 50 lbs., and of course cutting/consolidating flights.

With them pushing toward less flights and increased capacity per flight the demand for pilots is probably pretty level right now but, if the article is correct, between the training requirement and the mandatory retirements coming up there should be more opportunities and compensation for experienced pilots ahead.

I would rather my pilot is experienced and happy with his pay I guess. :unsure:

watchmaker49 Newbie

watchmaker49

Posted
Posted

Why are pilots paid so little if It's not supply and demand?

Pilots that fly for the large carriers are still making good money. It is the regional airline pilots that are not getting the good bucks. Since this is a sports board it is like comparing NHL to AHL to ECHL salaries. You have to work your way up the pole.
watchmaker49 Newbie

watchmaker49

Posted
Posted

I read a piece this summer about the airlines cost reducing measures, the ones that stood out in my mind were replacing seats with a streamlined version to hold many more passengers, reducing bag weight to 40 lbs. on most airlines from 50 lbs., and of course cutting/consolidating flights.

With them pushing toward less flights and increased capacity per flight the demand for pilots is probably pretty level right now but, if the article is correct, between the training requirement and the mandatory retirements coming up there should be more opportunities and compensation for experienced pilots ahead.

I would rather my pilot is experienced and happy with his pay I guess. :unsure:

There still is the issue of contracts for starting pilots. They may move up but it still takes a while before they make the real dollars.
watchmaker49 Newbie

watchmaker49

Posted
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Didn't Hudson river landing pilot work for a major carrier?...and. then go in front of congress telling everyone not to be a pilot because of the pay.

They are always whining. They do not make what they use to and have lost their great retirement benefits but the money is still well in the six figure range.
Vegas_Sioux Rising Star

Vegas_Sioux

Posted
Posted

Pilots that fly for the large carriers are still making good money. It is the regional airline pilots that are not getting the good bucks. Since this is a sports board it is like comparing NHL to AHL to ECHL salaries. You have to work your way up the pole.

The problem with that analogy is the product being offered is the same unlike the NHL vs the AHL vs the ECHL. Yes you have to claw your way up but everyone is now captain qualified or will be after there next pc and if you don't pass you're terminated with a failure on your record you'll never fly 121 again because of the Colgan accident. What I mean is whether its a 37 (dash8 100) seater or a 580 (airbus a380) seater you have the same responsibilities and in the the 37 seater there is less automation so it's a more work less pay scenario compare to the 580 seater.

watchmaker49 Newbie

watchmaker49

Posted
Posted

The problem with that analogy is the product being offered is the same unlike the NHL vs the AHL vs the ECHL. Yes you have to claw your way up but everyone is now captain qualified or will be after there next pc and if you don't pass you're terminated with a failure on your record you'll never fly 121 again because of the Colgan accident. What I mean is whether its a 37 (dash8 100) seater or a 580 (airbus a380) seater you have the same responsibilities and in the the 37 seater there is less automation so it's a more work less pay scenario compare to the 580 seater.

ECHL is more work and less pay also. As for flying again how many of those wonderful drunk NWA pilots that were drinking in Moorhead are back in the cockpit? If you can't pass your pc you should not be flying anyhow.
  • 5 years later...
moser53 Newbie

moser53

Posted
Posted
On 11/14/2012 at 12:33 AM, SiouxVolley said:

So what will this mean for UND's Aerospace School:

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203937004578079391643223634.html'

 

 

 

 

 

If I only had 100 Million Dollars. Watching news listening to radio is the only way I get info. I talk to no one leave my number online not one call. What does that say about me..Ha The news story that caught my eye this week was the pilot shortage coming up.

Aircraft Manufacturer Boeing estimates 17000 more pilots needed over the next 2 decades. I hear we’re full. With my 100 Mil. There would be 3, 4, 5 times the number of students here training to be pilots. Hugh new training facilities and dorms.

Pilot shortage do what they did with nursing at SU. Say we have a pilot shortage we need new facilities to meet the needs. Why havn’t we heard  about expanding Aerospace?  UNDs enrollment could go up maybe 2000 or more. Buts in the seats economic development.

Next I’d build a Drone Park. Best money could buy first class. And  after that Phase 2.

Are there people cities in ND looking to build there own Aerospace School knowing about the upcoming pilot shortages? New Drone Park, Law School, Med School. 

If Grand Forks doesn’t step up and dream big Grand Forks will not be in the top 5 cities in population in 20 years maybe less. When Minot passes Grand Forks the Champagne will be toasted by our State Leaders. Bismarck got us Minots next. 

homer Experienced

homer

Posted
Posted

From my understanding the shortage has more to do with the hours upon hours needed than it does space for training. 

This ties back to how things will be different in 5 years in college campuses and on job training requirements.  You may be throwing money away by building dorms and more space when want to be pilots are better served doing things like flying for a air national guard unit to get hours.  

Vegas_Sioux Rising Star

Vegas_Sioux

Posted
Posted

They’ve known for years that the cost of the industry vs pay was going to be an issue.  Now that pay has matched what it should be people are going to have to start paying what they should.  In the 1970s before deregulation the Civil Aeronautics Board set the price.  Airlines now are in a race to the bottom to pay pilots they cut everyone else’s pay.  

forksandspoons Grand Master

forksandspoons

Posted
Posted

UND's Aviation Department hopes its graduating students will help fill that gap.

Chief flight instructor Jeremy Roesler said he has about 900 students on the flight schedule and 170 flight instructors on staff.

The school's on pace for record freshmen enrollment in commercial aviation, with 693 students admitted for this fall, compared with 511 students in 2017 and 388 students in 2016.

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