Eight Bison football players charged

[firewall]

(The following was submitted to a Fargo radio station and BCC to me. Very poignant!)

My fiancée died in a fire fight in Fallujah, Iraq. Remember the slogan: "Freedom on the March." Dennis sent home several photos of Iraq's with the ink on their finger indicating their pride in being able to vote. We fight wars and lose thousands of young men to guarantee that right to vote. Yet two measures will not be on the ballot due to the actions of some NDSU students. Yet Athletic Director Gene Taylor says: "It's not a big deal." What am I missing?

[Bison06]

This is not further defense of what these guys did so do not take it that way, but why is the obvious being overlooked on this? These measures would not have made it onto the ballot anyway. If they needed fraudulent names to get over the number then they didn't have the numbers they needed to get on the ballot. Nobody's right to vote is being infringed on so there is no need to sensationalize this by evoking war heroes and their memories, that lacks taste to bring up in this situation IMO.

[Hansel]

I deleted my original post falsely accusing a UND player... even if it was him it would have been in poor taste. my apologies

[Teeder11]

firewall, as someone who did two tours myself and saw first hand the unbridled passion among people who for so long had been denied the right to vote in free elections, I want to thank you, and espeically your loved one, for the ulitmate sacrifice. There is nothing remotely tasteless about it, not that such remarks deserve to even be acknowledged.

[The Sicatoka]

I deleted my original post falsely accusing a UND player...

Thank you.

... even if it was him it would have been in poor taste. my apologies

No, it would've been the truth which must be welcome at all time.

(And we don't need any Lt. Kaffey / Col. Jessup interactions here.)

[Bison06]

firewall, as someone who did two tours myself and saw first hand the unbridled passion among people who for so long had been denied the right to vote in free elections, I want to thank you, and espeically your loved one, for the ulitmate sacrifice. There is nothing remotely tasteless about it, not that such remarks deserve to even be acknowledged.

You don't think evoking the memory of a lost hero is a bit much? Considering they aren't stopping anyone from actually voting and the situations aren't even in the same universe I would say it is at best unnecessary sensationalizing and at worst tasteless.

One is a group of people who have been oppressed their entire lives, living under a dictator, denied any human decency and faced torture or death likely every day of their lives. The other is a situation where nobody is losing the right to vote, nobody is being oppressed, nobody is going to be physically harmed in any way, if it is a valid measure it will be on the next ballot.

How are these situations being talked about in the same conversation?

[82SiouxGuy]

This is not further defense of what these guys did so do not take it that way, but why is the obvious being overlooked on this? These measures would not have made it onto the ballot anyway. If they needed fraudulent names to get over the number then they didn't have the numbers they needed to get on the ballot. Nobody's right to vote is being infringed on so there is no need to sensationalize this by evoking war heroes and their memories, that lacks taste to bring up in this situation IMO.

First, a lot of valid signatures were thrown out because of the forged signatures. The people refused to reaffirm the petitions, so all signatures on those petitions were thrown out. That is the way the system works, only signatures on valid petitions are accepted. We don't know if they would have had enough signatures to get on the ballot or not. So yes, the players and others did infringe on the voting rights of North Dakota citizens.

Second, if the company knew that they weren't getting enough signatures they probably would have hired more people to get signatures. You know, people that were actually going to do the job that they were paid to do. The players and others gave Terra false confidence that they were successful. They had a lot of signatures already, so it is not out of the question that they could have gotten enough signatures if they knew they needed more. Again, the actions of the players and others interfered with the rights of the North Dakota voters.

Your rationalizations of the players actions are really getting old. They forged signatures on legal documents. They interfered with the voting rights of North Dakota citizens. Way too many NDSU supporters don't seem to understand how big a deal this is, and that is sad. This is a big deal and your continued efforts to make excuses here are not going to help anyone.

[CMSioux]

This is not further defense of what these guys did so do not take it that way, but why is the obvious being overlooked on this? These measures would not have made it onto the ballot anyway. If they needed fraudulent names to get over the number then they didn't have the numbers they needed to get on the ballot. Nobody's right to vote is being infringed on so there is no need to sensationalize this by evoking war heroes and their memories, that lacks taste to bring up in this situation IMO.

Sorry but if the football players would have given effort to getting actual signatures instead of sitting home copying them out of the phone book they might have actually been able to turn in legitimate petitions and helped get the needed number of names. The company thought they had 12 employees out getting signatures.

[backpages]

This is not further defense of what these guys did so do not take it that way, but why is the obvious being overlooked on this? These measures would not have made it onto the ballot anyway. If they needed fraudulent names to get over the number then they didn't have the numbers they needed to get on the ballot. Nobody's right to vote is being infringed on so there is no need to sensationalize this by evoking war heroes and their memories, that lacks taste to bring up in this situation IMO.

Bison06: You are way out of line. Come back when you have obtained some maturity and real world experience.

[Bison06]

First, a lot of valid signatures were thrown out because of the forged signatures. The people refused to reaffirm the petitions, so all signatures on those petitions were thrown out. That is the way the system works, only signatures on valid petitions are accepted. We don't know if they would have had enough signatures to get on the ballot or not. So yes, the players and others did infringe on the voting rights of North Dakota citizens.

Second, if the company knew that they weren't getting enough signatures they probably would have hired more people to get signatures. You know, people that were actually going to do the job that they were paid to do. The players and others gave Terra false confidence that they were successful. They had a lot of signatures already, so it is not out of the question that they could have gotten enough signatures if they knew they needed more. Again, the actions of the players and others interfered with the rights of the North Dakota voters.

Your rationalizations of the players actions are really getting old. They forged signatures on legal documents. They interfered with the voting rights of North Dakota citizens. Way too many NDSU supporters don't seem to understand how big a deal this is, and that is sad. This is a big deal and your continued efforts to make excuses here are not going to help anyone.

I am not rationalizing anything, I am not making excuses for them or for the people who have decided not to punish them. I have been vocal since last week that this deserves a 1-2 game suspension.

What I will discuss and stand up for is UND fans wanting to make this MORE than it is. I haven't said even once that I don't think it is a big deal. You accuse NDSU fans of making this out to be no big deal, well you are making it a bigger deal than it actually is? Which is worse?

The truth will do, there is no need to sensationalize it further and make it a bigger deal than it actually is. It is already a big deal, just keep it to the facts without injecting these emotional scenarios where people are losing their lives for peoples' right to vote.

[Bison06]

Bison06: You are way out of line. Come back when you have obtained some maturity and real world experience.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[backpages]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I rest my case.

[airmail]

This is not further defense of what these guys did so do not take it that way, but why is the obvious being overlooked on this? These measures would not have made it onto the ballot anyway. If they needed fraudulent names to get over the number then they didn't have the numbers they needed to get on the ballot. Nobody's right to vote is being infringed on so there is no need to sensationalize this by evoking war heroes and their memories, that lacks taste to bring up in this situation IMO.

I have to disagree with you regarding the probability of this making the ballot.

The fact is that we will never know. What we know is that forged signatures were placed to garner a number of signatures in an easy manner. What we don't know is if these individuals would've put an honest effort forward to do the work they were being paid for, a substantial number would've/ could've been documented. Their laziness and pursuit of an "easy way out" has cheated numerous groups out of money spent to drive these initiatives, and cheated the people of the state the right to be heard.

I guess if this thing makes the ballot in the next couple years, we'll know if it was or wasn't possible.

Hell - I would've signed both, but I was never approached. (perhaps my name is still on the petition, though)

[Bison06]

I rest my case.

Please oh please tell me more about this real world. You don't know the first thing about me.

[82SiouxGuy]

I am not rationalizing anything, I am not making excuses for them or for the people who have decided not to punish them. I have been vocal since last week that this deserves a 1-2 game suspension.

What I will discuss and stand up for is UND fans wanting to make this MORE than it is. I haven't said even once that I don't think it is a big deal. You accuse NDSU fans of making this out to be no big deal, well you are making it a bigger deal than it actually is? Which is worse?

The truth will do, there is no need to sensationalize it further and make it a bigger deal than it actually is. It is already a big deal, just keep it to the facts without injecting these emotional scenarios where people are losing their lives for peoples' right to vote.

The election process is a huge deal to me. It is a major part of what makes the United States different from all other countries in the world. Your players interfered with the process because they were lazy and stupid. That is a very big deal to me. It sounds like it is a big deal to the Secretary of State also. They are talking about trying to make voter fraud a felony, all because of what your buddies did and how the rest of your group is treating the issue like it isn't important.

I have tried to deal in facts as much as possible, and where facts are known. The facts are that your players are charged with voter fraud. Reports say that every one of them admitted to committing that fraud. They should be punished for committing that crime. Your Athletic Director should treat this as a big deal, because the North Dakota citizens that employ him believe it is a big deal. Get back to me when someone in authority at NDSU treats this issue with the respect it deserves.

[82SiouxGuy]

Please oh please tell me more about this real world. You don't know the first thing about me.

Your treatment of this issue tells us something. The really sad thing is that you have treated this issue with more respect than most of your pals at Bville.

[Oxbow6]

This is not further defense of what these guys did so do not take it that way, but why is the obvious being overlooked on this? These measures would not have made it onto the ballot anyway. If they needed fraudulent names to get over the number then they didn't have the numbers they needed to get on the ballot. Nobody's right to vote is being infringed on so there is no need to sensationalize this by evoking war heroes and their memories, that lacks taste to bring up in this situation IMO.

Wow!!

[homer]

This is not further defense of what these guys did so do not take it that way, but why is the obvious being overlooked on this? These measures would not have made it onto the ballot anyway. If they needed fraudulent names to get over the number then they didn't have the numbers they needed to get on the ballot. Nobody's right to vote is being infringed on so there is no need to sensationalize this by evoking war heroes and their memories, that lacks taste to bring up in this situation IMO.

The Terra group is in business to make money. No different than your business is.

Lets look at it this way. If someone gives me $XXX to build a house in Fargo, Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Dickinson, as a business owner I am going to send the minimum amount of people I need to each location to get the job done in the allotted time. During the time I'm given, I am going to monitor the progress at each location and I'm only going to send more people if I seem to be falling behind at any of the locations. Every extra person I send out costs me more money so if the people I have working for me "appear" to be keeping pace, why as a business owner would I send extra help and add extra cost? Truth is, the actions of those responsible will never give us a chance to know if it would have made the ballot and as far as being on future ballots, that is not going to come free of charge to those involved.

[ScottM]

Instead of directly drawing attention to Bison FB players in this Community Forum, I suppose we could just change the name of this thread to "ND Election Fraud" to make the BV people feel better.

They may just make it a required class for every student at 'su since the administration seems to take the subject so lightly.

[Bison06]

Wow!!

So you think bringing up a fallen soldier in this situation is fair?

[ScottM]

The truth will do, there is no need to sensationalize it further and make it a bigger deal than it actually is. It is already a big deal, just keep it to the facts without injecting these emotional scenarios where people are losing their lives for peoples' right to vote.

The unfettered right to vote is a fundamental right of this nation. Not sure why you and your ilk continue to downplay that right, regardless of the relative merits or likelihood of success of the affected measures.

And a lof of good people died defending that right.

[Hayduke]

Do a Google search using "NDSU players" and see what comes up.

It sure as H. E. double hockey sticks isn't the score of the CSU game or their coveted FCS championship!

[Bison06]

The election process is a huge deal to me. It is a major part of what makes the United States different from all other countries in the world. Your players interfered with the process because they were lazy and stupid. That is a very big deal to me. It sounds like it is a big deal to the Secretary of State also. They are talking about trying to make voter fraud a felony, all because of what your buddies did and how the rest of your group is treating the issue like it isn't important.

I have tried to deal in facts as much as possible, and where facts are known. The facts are that your players are charged with voter fraud. Reports say that every one of them admitted to committing that fraud. They should be punished for committing that crime. Your Athletic Director should treat this as a big deal, because the North Dakota citizens that employ him believe it is a big deal. Get back to me when someone in authority at NDSU treats this issue with the respect it deserves.

Why do I have to get back to you when someone at NDSU does anything, they don't speak for me and I don't speak for them, I agree with everything you just said.

I also think that voter fraud is a big deal, which is why I have been an advocate for punishing the involved guys.

I also don't think we should make it a bigger deal than it is, why am I being attacked for that? I would think a proud American like yourself would be all for treating each situation with the exact amount of punishment it deserves, nothing more, nothing less.

To equate the situation in Fargo right now to anything in the Middle East crosses that line IMO. Feel free to disagree, but to tell me I am immature and need "real world experience" because I have that opinion is laughable.(Not directed at you)

[Bison06]

The unfettered right to vote is a fundamental right of this nation. Not sure why you and your ilk continue to downplay that right, regardless of the relative merits or likelihood of success of the affected measures.

And a lof of good people died defending that right.

I know many people who have died for this country and serve our country. No need to tell me what our soldiers do for us. Not sure how clear I can make this, nobody is being stopped from stepping into a voting booth in November. That is the right that our soldiers have fought and died for, to equate the two situations takes it a couple of steps too far IMO.

[backpages]

The unfettered right to vote is a fundamental right of this nation. Not sure why you and your ilk continue to downplay that right, regardless of the relative merits or likelihood of success of the affected measures.

And a lof of good people died defending that right.

ScottM: Thank you!