Matt Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Same editorial: More specifically, " ... everlasing angst from the NCAA ... " and potential conferences, because that's all we'll ever have is potential conferences as no one will touch UND. Do you see this affecting the formulation of the commonly referred to hockey "superconference"? Quote
darell1976 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 People think UND should go from Sioux to something else right away, others think no nickname ever or within 5 to 10 years. When Central dropped the Redskins in the summer of 1991 GFC went the 91-92, and 92-93 school year with no nickname. 93-94 they were known just as GFC Maroon and Grey it wasn't until a vote the spring of 94 that GFC became Knights for the school year of 94-95 so you figure no new nickname from spring of 1991 until fall of 1994. So UND could go nickname less for a short period of time and wisely choose one that relates to the school and or the region. UND could go with a colors name as a temp like Central did until a new name is found. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Do you see this affecting the formulation of the commonly referred to hockey "superconference"? We thought the moniker wasn't an issue to the Big Sky until that letter showed up. Where will it show up as an issue next? Your guess is as good as mine. But if the NCAA is involved ... Quote
ScottM Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 We thought the moniker wasn't an issue to the Big Sky until that letter showed up. Where will it show up as an issue next? Your guess is as good as mine. But if the NCAA is involved ... As long as the Sioux name/logo exist in the face of the terms of that settlement, I can see the NC$$ doing whatever it can to stymie UND's move to D1. (Their club, their rules, etc.) Transparency is not a hallmark of the NC$$, and it probably doesn't take much more than an "off line" conversation, or subtle hint to rattle these academics and get them to toe the NC$$ line. Quote
Fetch Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Maybe what needs to happen is Tax Payer Supported Sports needs to come to an end People would be amazed at the true costs of it all I can watch pro sports -or local / regional teams like the Red Hawks Maybe The Ralph will get a USHL or AHL team Take away UND Sioux Hockey - I admit I don't want to any longer support H.S. or College Sports The Country's broke & I bet austerity measures are coming Pay to play -Club Teams - the more talented kids will always get funded otherwise just local no travel intramural teams many other way to save Tax Payer $$$ in Public Schools & Colleges Then there would be no need for a NCAA http://www.feedthepig.org/ Quote
PhillySioux Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Maybe what needs to happen is Tax Payer Supported Sports needs to come to an end People would be amazed at the true costs of it all I can watch pro sports -or local / regional teams like the Red Hawks Maybe The Ralph will get a USHL or AHL team Take away UND Sioux Hockey - I admit I don't want to any longer support H.S. or College Sports The Country's broke & I bet austerity measures are coming Pay to play -Club Teams - the more talented kids will always get funded otherwise just local no travel intramural teams many other way to save Tax Payer $$$ in Public Schools & Colleges Then there would be no need for a NCAA http://www.feedthepig.org/ Almost all pro teams get public money one way or another. Quote
Fetch Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 How's that ? Facilities ? maybe that needs to end unless it brings in more $$$ than it costs & is supported by a public vote.........? ? ? Quote
iramurphy Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Herald Link to Kelley's Statements on KFGO Considering that Kelley's administration almost certainly helped orchestrate the NCAA statement, should anyone be surprised that Kelley was "not surprised." That is clearly a false statement. Kelly had nothing to do with it. Kelly was told when he interviewed the stettlement was done and he needed to deal with other issues. Get your facts straight! You can dislike him or criticize him but do it for the right reasons. Quote
Fetch Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Like not standing up for the name ? You can't tell me he has not aggressively done things proactively to make it go away You make him sound like a innocent bystander ............BS ! Quote
iramurphy Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 I wonder why nobody has yet called into question the constitutionality of the NCAA's ban on Native American nicknames. They have done so, and that is why we have the settlement we do. The NCAA would have lost the initial lawsuit because they didn't follow there own rules but then would have won the second round. The settlement gave UND enough time. It was based on the feeling that 70% of Native Americans supported keeping the name and logo and the settlement gave them ample time to get their tribal councils to document that support. They obviously did not have this as high of a priority as we thought. Quote
Fetch Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 The settlement gave UND enough time & They (UND) including the SBOHE made a feeble effort - Thus the People / Legislature & Governor had to step in & try to right a wrong Quote
Siouxperman8 Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 & They (UND) including the SBOHE made a feeble effort - Thus the People / Legislature & Governor had to step in & try to right a wrong uuummmm..... this has all been hashed over many thousand times and we still never win. It is time to move on. Quote
Goon Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 As long as the Sioux name/logo exist in the face of the terms of that settlement, I can see the NC$$ doing whatever it can to stymie UND's move to D1. (Their club, their rules, etc.) Transparency is not a hallmark of the NC$$, and it probably doesn't take much more than an "off line" conversation, or subtle hint to rattle these academics and get them to toe the NC$$ line. Scott I am not a lawyer, I know some of you guys on Sioux Sports are but looking at this ex post fact o, I really don't see how UND or the state of North Dakota could sue the NCAA? As a legal mind, do you seen anything that UND could use a a trump card is there? I am not seeing it as a casual observer. Quote
Chewey Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Scott I am not a lawyer, I know some of you guys on Sioux Sports are but looking at this ex post fact o, I really don't see how UND or the state of North Dakota could sue the NCAA? As a legal mind, do you seen anything that UND could use a a trump card is there? I am not seeing it as a casual observer. I don't see it. However, the sanctions are what they are as spelled out in the surrender agreement. To the extent that the NCAA is effecting means to sanction UND or impose roadblocks for UND that are beyond the parameters of the surrender agreement (i.e. possible collusion between NCAA and Big Sky and other schools/league) there may be a basis for a claim. Matters not covered by the language of the surrender agreement could be asserted. Some significantly detailed and protracted discovery would need to ensue to get to determine these things. I offer the following options and leave it to you to determine the likelihood of any one of them at this point: 1. Dues ex politica (federal level) -- Hoeven, Berg, Conrad grow spines and come to the rescue of the nickname and logo after having received massive email barrage. A. Not going to happen, especially given the flooding in Bismarck/Mandan and Minot (Hoeven's Bismarck house is underwater, evidently, or at least threatened). If they didn't have spines before, they won't have any now AND they have the political cover to justify it. 2. Dalrymple, Carlson, Archie Fool Bear, the AG go to the NCAA changes its mind to allow "Spirit Lake Sioux" or to allow "Fighting Sioux" or just "Sioux" after being convinced that most of the NA's approve of the nickname and logo. A. Probably not going to happen but still worth a shot, at least to give certain people cover to say that they did all they could and were still stymied. 3. Dalrymple, Carlson, etc go to NCAA and are told the same things the NCAA has already parroted but acknowledge that the law will be changed but, given the flooding in ND and all of the other ancillary issues, are allowed more time -- perhaps 2011-2012 -- to change the name with August 15, 2012 the date instead of August 15, 2011. A. If the NCAA has any common sense, they may be inclined to give this some thought to gain points and to look like "real good guys" bearing boat loads of magnanimity, despite the impudence of "those hicks from ND." 4. Dalrymple, Carlson, etc. go to the NCAA and are told the same things the NCAA has already parroted and are told sanctions will go forward unless the name is changed by August 15, 2011, or by the special session in November. A. Probably most likely. I have an unaffected and visceral scorn for the NCAA and the hypocritical, low-core aggressive academic weenies that run it but it will still be allowed to wield its abuse on whomever it wishes unless and until people start seeing it for what it is -- an abusive monopoly that needs to be treated and broken up accordingly. Maybe start privatizing athletics as someone else has suggested? Aren't schools for teaching and learning and aren't sports intended to be only extracurricular activities? Somehow, the same hypocritical dolts who bemoan how too much money is devoted to athletics, how athletes can't read, etc. are the same ones who laugh all the way to the bank with the monetary benefits. Institutions of higher learning, so - called, have become inextricably enmeshed with the love of money from "extracurricular activities" and such obvious hypocrisy is easily justified even though the justifications make no sense. Where you have equivocation, the absence of logical policies, the squelching of different viewpoints, chaotic and haphazard justifications, you have a true beast in your midst - corruption.. - err, I mean the NCAA. Quote
iramurphy Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 & They (UND) including the SBOHE made a feeble effort - Thus the People / Legislature & Governor had to step in & try to right a wrong The "people and the legislature" limited UND's options and created an untenable situation which forces UND to either suffer the consequences (which we can't afford to do) or else or fight our own legislature. The legislation has no effect on the NCAA and thus has not righted the wrong but has placed the future of UND athletics and especially the Big Sky membership and the schedule for future hockey games in jeopardy. How is any of tha t worth the name and logo? You and I have no influence over the NCAA and neither does our state legislature. This legislation has done nothing to forward the cause of the name but it has caused UND to be placed in a risky position as it pertains to conference membership for many sports and future scheduling for all sports. How much of that don't some understand and how is the name worth the risk at this late date. If we can get the tribes to change position then I am all for it but the rhetoric here does nothing to forward the cause. Quote
Fetch Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 MAYBE - but the people will not let that happen I'm so sick of the D1 chicken littles that I now blame you for losing the name D1 is proving to be a disaster 2 Quote
jedi Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 D1 is proving to be a disaster How can you say this? UND sports teams will be playing better opponents and the University as a whole is taking a step up in terms of nationwide prestige. If you cared at all about the University as a whole, you wouldn't make such a preposterous statement. Quote
ScottM Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Scott I am not a lawyer, I know some of you guys on Sioux Sports are but looking at this ex post fact o, I really don't see how UND or the state of North Dakota could sue the NCAA? As a legal mind, do you seen anything that UND could use a a trump card is there? I am not seeing it as a casual observer. The "settlement" basically foreclosed the state and/or UND from pursuing any legal action in the future on the name/logo issue. Unless the NC$$ was in breach of the settlement agreement, like any contract, there's really nothing a court would do, besides sanction UND, dismiss the action and probably have the state pay the NC$$'s attorneys' fees for bringing a frivolous action. For example, if as part of the sanctions, the NC$$ mandated that UND revert to "Flickertails" or wear Green and Pink uniforms, then there would probably be a reason to re-visit the settlement and sue the NC$$ for violating its terms. Frankly, the only people in a twist over the settlement are Clueless Al and a few others who continually grasp at straws in some vain hope a miracle will occur. IMHO, the Sioux name/logo was doomed when UND indicated it wanted to go to D1, and I would not be surprised if that "price" was part of the settlement negotiations in some way. However, since settlement negotiations are confidential we'll never know for sure, but it may help explain AG Stenjhem's "MIA" status. Quote
jedi Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 The "people and the legislature" limited UND's options and created an untenable situation which forces UND to either suffer the consequences (which we can't afford to do) or else or fight our own legislature. The legislation has no effect on the NCAA and thus has not righted the wrong but has placed the future of UND athletics and especially the Big Sky membership and the schedule for future hockey games in jeopardy. How is any of tha t worth the name and logo? You and I have no influence over the NCAA and neither does our state legislature. This legislation has done nothing to forward the cause of the name but it has caused UND to be placed in a risky position as it pertains to conference membership for many sports and future scheduling for all sports. How much of that don't some understand and how is the name worth the risk at this late date. If we can get the tribes to change position then I am all for it but the rhetoric here does nothing to forward the cause. Al Carlson's argument that the majority of the "people of ND" want to keep the nickname is such BS. I'm sure this is true if one asks the question "Do you favor keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname?" But what about if you ask "Are you in favor of keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo even if it poses a significant threat to the success of UND's athletics programs at the Division I level?" The majority sentiment on this board appears to be (1) people favor keeping the nickname BUT (2) people don't favor keeping the nickname if it threatens the success of UND athletics (which has proven to be the case). Quote
GeauxSioux Posted June 24, 2011 Author Posted June 24, 2011 MAYBE - but the people will not let that happen I'm so sick of the D1 chicken littles that I now balme you for losing the name D1 is proving to be a disaster Says the I love Fighting Sioux hockey guy. I said before you can call me Chicken Little if you like and now you can go ahead and blame me for the loss of the Fighting Sioux name now too. I am a 1984 graduate of UND. My parents both graduated from UND, along with my brother, four uncles and a number of cousins. There probably isn't one of us who wants to see the day that UND is no longer the Fighting Sioux, but there is little choice at this point. Either stay with the name and watch the athletic department crash and with it destroy the name that really matters (University of North Dakota) or change the name and watch UND soar. I truly believe that UND is on the cusp of greatness. With admission into the Big Sky, a whole new frontier is going to be opened to UND. Add to that the research that is going on at UND, the Aerospace program with UAVs, the entrepreneurial programs, a new degree in petroleum engineering, etc., UND is ready to soar. Quote
Fetch Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 I wonder what % of Season Ticket holders Graduated from UND or what % attend games Some of you think your better than the community Man! those Professors sure accomplished their goals with most of you & you don't even know it Quote
GeauxSioux Posted June 24, 2011 Author Posted June 24, 2011 I wonder what % of Season Tickets Graduated from UND or what % attend games Some of you think your better than the community Man! those Professors sure accomplished their goals with most of you & you don't even know it and what percentage don't live close enough to attend games regularly, but still give donations to UND for scholarships, facilities, etc. Quote
Chewey Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 For your reading pleasure: http://plainsdaily.com/entry/sbhe-changing-gears-in-approach-to-und-nickname-actively-working-to-end-logo/ Quote
Hawkster Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 MAYBE - but the people will not let that happen I'm so sick of the D1 chicken littles that I now blame you for losing the name D1 is proving to be a disaster It's only going to be a disaster if we let ourselves get kicked out of the BSC. Quote
ScottM Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 It's only going to be a disaster if we let ourselves get kicked out of the BSC. But hey, there's always the WAC or NAIA ... Quote
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