New Nickname

[FightingSioux87]

Exactly...the task force is NOT picking the name.  Kelley is.  Let's not get caught up in this task force and survey process.  IMO it's a joke.  I have little doubt Kelley has at most 3 names he will consider regardless of whatever this whole process hands out. 

Kelly will not be the one and only one choosing the new nickname! There is no possible way the community or the state would allow that to happen. How long has he been here? Around 10 years? How would he have the right to choose the new nickname over people in the community, state, alumni, stakeholders who have much more invested than him?

[The Sicatoka]

1) There is going to be a nickname.

2) It's going to be faster then some would like....way to slow for others.

3) Most will hate the nickname.

4) As long as there is movement towards a new nickname, as slow as it may be, I doubt the NCAA will take us to court.

 

I can agree with 1, 2, and 4. 

Item 3 might be strong ... "dislike" or "put up with".  

[The Sicatoka]

Kelly will not be the one and only one choosing the new nickname! There is no possible way the community or the state would allow that to happen. How long has he been here? Around 10 years? How would he have the right to choose the new nickname over people in the community, state, alumni, stakeholders who have much more invested than him?

 

I hope you're right; but, ultimately, the buck stops with him and, as president of UND, the final decision is his. 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

If the requirement to be on the list is that the institution must be using a hostile and abusive name/logo, and an institution is not using such a name/logo, simple logic dictates that the institution cannot be on said list. Period. End of story. An association has to follow its own rules, or it will get sued and lose. Period. End of story. The only legal remedy for not following through on a contractual promise is an action for breach of contract, in which the aggrieved party must prove the contract, the breach, and the harm. Period. End of story. Love or loathe the NCAA, there is not a phantom punishment or mythical sanction here. The NCAA could sue, sure, but the contract is ambiguous on its face, the facts and timeline are convoluted and murky, and the NCAA would be hard pressed to articulate how it has been harmed. That, and lawyers cost money, and even the big bad NCAA has its hands full at the moment. Now, if you'll excuse me, check-out time at the Holiday Inn Express is 11:30.

[FightingSioux87]

I hope you're right; but, ultimately, the buck stops with him and, as president of UND, the final decision is his. 

All I'm saying is good luck to him if he so chooses to treat the decision in the manner you stated, "the final decision is his", and that he may possibly choose whatever nickname he wants versus what invested community members, alumni, and stakeholders choose/want

[darell1976]

Calm down Chicken Little.....

 

1) There is going to be a nickname.

2) It's going to be faster then some would like....way to slow for others.

3) Most will hate the nickname.

4) As long as there is movement towards a new nickname, as slow as it may be, I doubt the NCAA will take us to court.

Were you calling people Chicken Little in 2005?

[The Sicatoka]

If the requirement to be on the list is that the institution must be using a hostile and abusive name/logo, and an institution is not using such a name/logo, simple logic dictates that the institution cannot be on said list. Period. End of story. 

 

There is another way onto the list. The NCAA and the State of North Dakota defined it contractually. That way is:

 

If UND does not adopt a new nickname and logo, or if the transition to a new nickname and logo is not completed prior to August 15, 2011, then UND will be returned to the list of institutions subject to the Policy. 

[iluvdebbies]

Were you calling people Chicken Little in 2005?

All I'm saying is that if for some reason the "process" leads us to no nickname. That sometime before they announce it. The University will have cleared it with they NCAA.

[darell1976]

All I'm saying is that if for some reason the "process" leads us to no nickname. That sometime before they announce it. The University will have cleared it with they NCAA.

What's to clear it when its already been settled in court. No nickname = sanctions.

[The Sicatoka]

The "clear it" would have to be an addendum contract with the NCAA saying, "No nickname is a nickname and meets the stipulations of the earlier agreement." Nothing less would suffice. 

[iluvdebbies]

The "clear it" would have to be an addendum contract with the NCAA saying, "No nickname is a nickname and meets the stipulations of the earlier agreement." Nothing less would suffice. 

That's exactly what I'm saying. If we get to that point of OFFICALLY declaring no nickname. The NCAA will have cleared it. Now darell run along and get your hardhat and don't look up

[darell1976]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If we get to that point of OFFICALLY declaring no nickname. The NCAA will have cleared it. Now darell run along and get your hardhat and don't look up

Will have to and NCAA doesn't go together.

[Siouxphan27]

Calm down Chicken Little.....

1) There is going to be a nickname.

2) It's going to be faster then some would like....way to slow for others.

3) Most will hate the nickname.

4) As long as there is movement towards a new nickname, as slow as it may be, I doubt the NCAA will take us to court.

Chicken Littles, Scaredy Cats, Fear Mongerers.... Lots of nickname ideas coming from this discussion.

[Oxbow6]

I hope you're right; but, ultimately, the buck stops with him and, as president of UND, the final decision is his. 

 

 

Correct...to think this "process" will resemble any type of a "democracy" is ignorant.

[Chewey]

However, no nickname is not a new nickname* and it's well after 8/15/2011. That's not meeting the agreement. Right there is grounds for the NCAA to make UND subject to the Policy if they decided to press. They haven't ... so far, probably in deference to the state law that was passed ("cooling off" until 1/1/15). Come New Years Day, when state law no longer precludes action by UND, all bets are off on what the NCAA may (or may not) do. 

 

 

*A nothing is not a new something. 

 

Actually, it is.  The nickname is "North Dakota" and the new logo is the interlocking ND.  There's no policy against using your state's name as a nickname.  Our school is "the University of North Dakota" and the name we apply to our teams is "North Dakota".  We've chosen to use part of our school's actual name and the name of our state as a label for our athletic teams.  If the NCAA did not intend to allow for this, then the surrender agreement and the NCAA policies need to be more specific. 

[darell1976]

Actually, it is. The nickname is "North Dakota" and the new logo is the interlocking ND. There's no policy against using your state's name as a nickname. Our school is "the University of North Dakota" and the name we apply to our teams is "North Dakota". We've chosen to use part of our school's actual name and the name of our state as a label for our athletic teams. If the NCAA did not intend to allow for this, then the surrender agreement and the NCAA policies need to be more specific.

So our school is the Univeristy of North Dakota North Dakota? That's stupid!!

[Chewey]

So our school is the Univeristy of North Dakota North Dakota? That's stupid!!

"Nicknames" are simply labels for a school's sports teams.  If the school chooses to label its teams as "North Dakota" or "Team North Dakota", there's nothing there for the NC00 to get its panties in a bunch about, surrender agreement or otherwise.  Using a state's actual name to label a schools sports teams is good enough.  The slogans that one could use would be so easy, "What's wrong with North Dakota?"  "What's the matter with North Dakota, it's ok" (There could be a catchy tune attached to that one).   

[Oxbow6]

According to the poll on this thread to date, "Rough Riders" is still the favorite of the choices given.  Has always been my top choice since Fighting Sioux was dropped. 

[darell1976]

"Nicknames" are simply labels for a school's sports teams. If the school chooses to label its teams as "North Dakota" or "Team North Dakota", there's nothing there for the NC00 to get its panties in a bunch about, surrender agreement or otherwise. Using a state's actual name to label a schools sports teams is good enough. The slogans that one could use would be so easy, "What's wrong with North Dakota?" "What's the matter with North Dakota, it's ok" (There could be a catchy tune attached to that one).

I would rather have UND be the Nodaks instead of just North Dakota.

[dagies]

Personally, I think it's best if we take the chance and select a new nickname.  BUT, Noiseinsidemyhead makes a lot of valid points that I agree with, should there be impetus toward not selecting a nickname.

 

For me, I'm not scared of a bit of a showdown with the NCAA, if we pick the terrain for battle.   And going toe-to-toe over no nickname may be good terrain.  

I also don't want to be scared of picking a name like "Vikings" (I'm not advocating this, just using it as an example).   I get that it might violate the policy, but again, I think the terrain is favorable.

 

At some point the NCAA may push this too far.   There's enough gray area in using a nickname like "The Fighting Sioux" where public opinion can be swayed against UND.   But at some point the terrain shifts, and the NCAA will no longer be on the higher ground.   That's when they push too far, and they lose public opinion.

 

I don't want to ignore great nickname options just because we're afraid of another battle, or because there's a slight chance that someone will object to the word "black" used in a nickname as an adjective.   We can't just say "oh poor me, they might not let us do that".

 

Evaluate each on its merits, discount those ideas that reasonably may be over the line and gird the loins if necessary.

[fargosioux]

I assume the nickname Supersonics has some kind of copyright to it, but with the Aerospace department at UND I am wondering if you could use the term Sonic as an adjective to something else Aerospace related and come up with a cool logo.  Not only that, but we could have a Drive-in chain as a sponsor.

 

I like the idea of SuperSonics, as a nod to the Aerospace department.  It's definitely unique, and not being used anymore by any major sports teams.

[CMSioux]

I believe the ultimate decision makers on campus will not allow "No Nickname". They will simply use the "No Name just keeps the Fighting Sioux alive" argument. Remember the Native American Cultural Center representatives also stated after their walk around campus that they wanted a new nickname chosen (which they demanded happen by this fall or they would start a negative campaign nationwide to discourage Native Americans from attending UND - wondering whatever happened to that threat?).

[The Sicatoka]

I believe the ultimate decision makers on campus will not allow "No Nickname". They will simply use the "No Name just keeps the Fighting Sioux alive" argument. 

 

It's a pretty compelling argument. 

[FightingSioux87]

New nickname = "Warriors" and keep the logo!

[The Sicatoka]

New nickname = "Warriors" and keep the logo!

 

The NCAA policy affects names and imagery.