Siouxphan27 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Who is offended? Anyone doesn't want to just be known as just the University of North Dakota. Which is more than you think. Of course we all wish the Fighting Sioux name could live on forever. Well that is not going to happen. Any name chosen will obviously not be as good as the Fighting Sioux. But it is time to move on and select a new name that will honorable and that fans can get behind. Some people may not like to have no nickname, but that is not the same as being offended. Big difference. For example, If a new nickname is forced on UND, 98% of us will probably think the new nickname sucks, but that will not allow us to demand the NCAA put the UND Flaming Peace Rainbows on its naughty list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The NCAA's stated purpose behind its policy is to not have a "hostile and abusive" environment at its championships. If UND has no other name, what will be heard at the end of the anthem at NCAA events that UND participates in? Or in UND cheers? Yeah? Yeah? Anyone? This is exactly where I can see the NCAA, and it's make it up as we go approach, coming in and saying that by not choosing a new name UND is creating and allowing an environment that perpetuates the old name and that is creating said "hostile and abusive" environment at NCAA events. We know what comes after that. Can't happen? How'd we get here? That "can't happen" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray77 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The NCAA's stated purpose behind its policy is to not have a "hostile and abusive" environment at its championships. If UND has no other name, what will be heard at the end of the anthem at NCAA events that UND participates in? Or in UND cheers? Yeah? Yeah? Anyone? This is exactly where I can see the NCAA, and it's make it up as we go approach, coming in and saying that by not choosing a new name UND is creating and allowing an environment that perpetuates the old name and that is creating said "hostile and abusive" environment at NCAA events. We know what comes after that. Can't happen? How'd we get here? That "can't happen" either. Question: If UND gets a new nickname, what will be heard at the end of the anthem at NCAA events that UND participates in? Or in UND cheers? Yeah? Yeah? Anyone? Answer: The same thing that is currently heard at the end of the anthem at NCAA events that UND participates in. Or in UND cheers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Question: If UND gets a new nickname, what will be heard at the end of the anthem at NCAA events that UND participates in? Or in UND cheers? Yeah? Yeah? Anyone? Answer: The same thing that is currently heard at the end of the anthem at NCAA events that UND participates in. Or in UND cheers. Undoubtedly. However, a new official name provides UND cover against the scenario I lay out. Any claim of "allowing an environment that perpetuates" would fall on its face as UND would have done something within its power to prevent the name from perpetuating. Put another way, UND needs to control what is its to control. (Leaving a void leaves room for the NCAA to claim "lack of institutional control".) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Put another way, UND needs to control what is its to control. (Leaving a void leaves room for the NCAA to claim "lack of institutional control".) Agree. Regardless of the new name/moniker/mascot or whatever, I still think we take the "Auburn approach" and use "Sioux" in some form or fashion as a response to the "University of North Dakota ____". It could be a new tradition owned by students, alums and others who think the NC$$ deserves to die a slow, lingering death at the hands of federal courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 This is exactly where I can see the NCAA, and it's make it up as we go approach, coming in and saying that by not choosing a new name UND is creating and allowing an environment that perpetuates the old name and that is creating said "hostile and abusive" environment at NCAA events. With all due respect, you are getting dangerously close to tin foil hat territory here. The name is officially gone. The University has said and done all the right things. (Personally, I'm surprised they retired the pre-game sensitivity video so quickly, but that's another issue.) What one or ten or a thousand people say or yell is beyond anyone's control, and will continue with or without a new name. A new rule mandating nicknames would likely have to go through some sort of Association-wide vetting process, will be subject to some form of legislative scrutiny, and would - it seems - be unlikely to be applied ex post facto. Even the sweeping 'hostile and abusive' policy ended up having a grandfather provision, for crying out loud. The NCAA has tremendous reach, and has proven itself to be irresponsible, arbitrary, and capricious, but there are practical limitations to its power. I would be truly disappointed if 'NCAA phobia' were relied upon by UND as the sole or dominant justification for selecting a new name in the face of a ground swell of support not to. Hell, if anything I hope they cave to the pursuit of licensing revenue. I'd rather bow to capitalism than to the NCAA. Greed > Fear. Principle went out the window a long time ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 With all due respect, you are getting dangerously close to tin foil hat territory here. The name is officially gone. The University has said and done all the right things. (Personally, I'm surprised they retired the pre-game sensitivity video so quickly, but that's another issue.) What one or ten or a thousand people say or yell is beyond anyone's control, and will continue with or without a new name. A new rule mandating nicknames would likely have to go through some sort of Association-wide vetting process, will be subject to some form of legislative scrutiny, and would - it seems - be unlikely to be applied ex post facto. Even the sweeping 'hostile and abusive' policy ended up having a grandfather provision, for crying out loud. The NCAA has tremendous reach, and has proven itself to be irresponsible, arbitrary, and capricious, but there are practical limitations to its power. I would be truly disappointed if 'NCAA phobia' were relied upon by UND as the sole or dominant justification for selecting a new name in the face of a ground swell of support not to. Hell, if anything I hope they cave to the pursuit of licensing revenue. I'd rather bow to capitalism than to the NCAA. Greed > Fear. Principle went out the window a long time ago. If UND got a new nickname would you still cheer for UND or would you distance yourself from the University? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 If UND got a new nickname would you still cheer for UND or would you distance yourself from the University? Let's face it...the nickname that is eventually chosen is going to border on pathetic on almost every level but most will say loyalty to the university thumps being genuinely embarrassed by the new nickname. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Let's face it...the nickname that is eventually chosen is going to border on pathetic on almost every level but most will say loyalty to the university thumps being genuinely embarrassed by the new nickname. I love North Dakota whatever the nickname is. The fact some people are almost on suicide watch if just having UND with no nickname isn't an option is mind boggling. Just because Central is the Knights, Valley is the Royals and West is the Wolves doesn't make me not cheer for my former schools. UND will always be the Sioux in the heart, but if they are the Fighting Rainbows it won't deter me from not cheering them on, and eventually buying Rainbows gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I will still cheer for UND but you won't see me sporting a Rainbows jersey. Oxbow6, on the other hand, well, he can't wait to get rid of his Sioux stuff on Craigslist and drop $300 on a brand-new Reebok authentic Sparkling Unicorns, Glittery Rainbows, or Butterfly Kisses hockey jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I will still cheer for UND but you won't see me sporting a Rainbows jersey. Oxbow6, on the other hand, well, he can't wait to get rid of his Sioux stuff on Craigslist and drop $300 on a brand-new Reebok authentic Sparkling Unicorns, Glittery Rainbows, or Butterfly Kisses hockey jersey. Sun Dogs or Spirit...the design and color schemes are endless. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 If UND got a new nickname would you still cheer for UND or would you distance yourself from the University? I'm cheering for UND no matter what; I just hope they do the right thing and that we can all be proud. Not having a name presents marketing challenges, to be sure, and will inhibit licensing revenue, but it is certainly a unique approach that recognizes the Sioux legacy and at the very least shouldn't deepen any wounds. I could get behind it, although I think we need to think outside the box with respect to the "interlocking ND." Selecting a name, while inherently painful and almost guaranteed to result in a period of awkwardness and maybe years of adjustment, can be done right. Frankly, I'm more interested in my kids' reactions to the new name/logo/mascot than my own. This is a forward-looking process and, with apologies to Whitney Houston, the children really are the future. Picking a name because its the PC thing to do, or because some overpaid "consultant" said to, or to stave off retribution from the big, bad NCAA is not, in my opinion, 'the right thing.' Burying the past is also not acceptable. If the new name is not rolled out arm-in-arm with a solid plan for recognizing and celebrating the aforementioned Sioux legacy, I will be disappointed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm cheering for UND no matter what; I just hope they do the right thing and that we can all be proud. Not having a name presents marketing challenges, to be sure, and will inhibit licensing revenue, but it is certainly a unique approach that recognizes the Sioux legacy and at the very least shouldn't deepen any wounds. I could get behind it, although I think we need to think outside the box with respect to the "interlocking ND." Selecting a name, while inherently painful and almost guaranteed to result in a period of awkwardness and maybe years of adjustment, can be done right. Frankly, I'm more interested in my kids' reactions to the new name/logo/mascot than my own. This is a forward-looking process and, with apologies to Whitney Houston, the children really are the future. Picking a name because its the PC thing to do, or because some overpaid "consultant" said to, or to stave off retribution from the big, bad NCAA is not, in my opinion, 'the right thing.' Burying the past is also not acceptable. If the new name is not rolled out arm-in-arm with a solid plan for recognizing and celebrating the aforementioned Sioux legacy, I will be disappointed. This I hope is not done. The same with the possibility that Kelley could have a name picked out already and this whole nickname board is just a cover for the media and fans. What we need is a name that everyone can get behind. I know the only name that comes to mind is Sioux, but we need to look past that and try to get a name that represents the school, the region (Northeast ND), and the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Sun Dogs or Spirit...the design and color schemes are endless. Would it be Sundogs, SunDogs, or Sun Dogs? My head hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 How about the Black Wolves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Would it be Sundogs, SunDogs, or Sun Dogs? My head hurts. Only Kelley knows for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 How about the Black Wolves? Someone will yell "racist" at some point if the word black is used as an adjective to any nickname chosen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Someone will yell "racist" at some point if the word black is used as an adjective to any nickname chosen. Grey Wolves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthDakotaHockey Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The Fighting Who? A big fancy ? for the logo. Like The Riddler's. We don't know who we are ever since the NCAA and the world of weenies took away are identity. We don't know WHO we are anymore. Same chants. Same cheers. Just the Fighting Who. In the NCAA's face and they would not be able to do or say a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen4sioux Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Doesn't matter, they dropped the nickname along with the hockey team when they moved to Dallas in 1993. Open for business in my eyes Minnesota didn't "give up" or "drop" the North Stars name.....they had it ripped out of their collective society...they adore the name Latching on to that name would be an aweful experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen4sioux Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Now that ASU has gone D1 puck with their SUN DEVILS.... I pray that ends the nonsense that was the SUN DOGS garbage. University of North Dakota Equality. The clubhouse leader at the moment for Jiggleybits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 With all due respect, you are getting dangerously close to tin foil hat territory here. The name is officially gone. The University has said and done all the right things. (Personally, I'm surprised they retired the pre-game sensitivity video so quickly, but that's another issue.) What one or ten or a thousand people say or yell is beyond anyone's control, and will continue with or without a new name. A new rule mandating nicknames would likely have to go through some sort of Association-wide vetting process, will be subject to some form of legislative scrutiny, and would - it seems - be unlikely to be applied ex post facto. Even the sweeping 'hostile and abusive' policy ended up having a grandfather provision, for crying out loud. The NCAA has tremendous reach, and has proven itself to be irresponsible, arbitrary, and capricious, but there are practical limitations to its power. I would be truly disappointed if 'NCAA phobia' were relied upon by UND as the sole or dominant justification for selecting a new name in the face of a ground swell of support not to. Hell, if anything I hope they cave to the pursuit of licensing revenue. I'd rather bow to capitalism than to the NCAA. Greed > Fear. Principle went out the window a long time ago. Yes, and we were in tin foil hat territory in 2005. And we said then it'd have to go to an Association-wide vote. Instead, the NCAA Executive Committee got vast new powers handed to it by membership vote after all of this. Those powers, as you say, given to the Executive Committee are arbitrary and capricioius. If the Exec Comm decides it's a critical association-wide issue they can act. Look in the mirror and ask yourself: Do you trust the NCAA Exec Comm? Pretend it's 2005 all over again and ask yourself: Can they really force a school to do that? Nothing's changed with the NCAA and how they do business. They get a "mission" or cause celeb in their heads and they go after it ruthlessly. I'd rather keep clear of their radar by controlling what's our to control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The Fighting Who? Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend would probably favor it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Grey Wolves? AARP would come after us. And we can't be the "Green _______" because the Martians would be after us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 AARP would come after us. And we can't be the "Green _______" because the Martians would be after us. Only Marvin the Martian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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