POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[Bison Dan]

What really chaps NDSU's fans asses is that they are second class to us (UND fans).

We care more about the Gophers (our number one rival in our number one sport) than NDSU.

They care more about us than we do them. It chaps their asses everytime! Hence the reason they get an inferior complex.

Who wants to play us every year? Fact is outside of hockey most of your sports teams are getting a failing grade during the transition. Who has the inferior complex? Win a big game and maybe it will go away!

[darell1976]

Who wants to play us every year? Fact is outside of hockey most of your sports teams are getting a failing grade during the transition. Who has the inferior complex? Win a big game and maybe it will go away!

I would say the only team with a failing grade may be our football team. I don't measure baseball, our men's basketball team went to the CIT as mostly Freshman so I would say they are exceeding expectations. But what measures passing transition and failing transition? Is it really wins and losses or is it recruiting? I would think you try to recruit during transition so your team will be competitive during your post-transition years. Because to me did NDSU do great during their transition in most sports? Who knows, who cares all you are fighting for is a conference title. I would say they are failing big time at basketball. They had the 1 year they went dancing (thanks to Woodside) then what have they done since...nothing. Football they were ranked #1 in the polls in transition then 2 years later they end the year 3-8. 1 time in the playoffs in 3 years of eligibility. Same with SDSU. USD has done nothing in their transition. They beat Minnesota and..... thats it. We beat them like every year (except last year). So really who cares what you do in transition. Its what you learn to and what you do off the field (recruit!!) that prepares you when everything matters....PLAYOFFS!

[Bison06]

I would say the only team with a failing grade may be our football team. I don't measure baseball, our men's basketball team went to the CIT as mostly Freshman so I would say they are exceeding expectations. But what measures passing transition and failing transition? Is it really wins and losses or is it recruiting? I would think you try to recruit during transition so your team will be competitive during your post-transition years. Because to me did NDSU do great during their transition in most sports? Who knows, who cares all you are fighting for is a conference title. I would say they are failing big time at basketball. They had the 1 year they went dancing (thanks to Woodside) then what have they done since...nothing. Football they were ranked #1 in the polls in transition then 2 years later they end the year 3-8. 1 time in the playoffs in 3 years of eligibility. Same with SDSU. USD has done nothing in their transition. They beat Minnesota and..... thats it. We beat them like every year (except last year). So really who cares what you do in transition. Its what you learn to and what you do off the field (recruit!!) that prepares you when everything matters....PLAYOFFS!

You poopoo that like it's a no big deal thing. Getting the dance is a MAJOR accomplishment, if you weren't so blinded by NDSU hatred you would see that.

So if recruiting is how you measure success during the transition, are you saying that UND has recruited to a level that you will be ready when the transition ends? From my limited time on this board I have heard a lot of complaining about your recruiting classes of late. In fact there is another thread on this board that a poster said he thinks UND had more talent 5-10 years ago than they do now.

[Bison06]

Talking about the quality of play....I hope you are just trolling and are not really this freakin stupid.

Honest question to you.

What, other than having a school that has a great hockey team and being a hockey fan, makes you think that Division I hockey is more popular than Division I FCS football nationally?

[GeauxSioux]

Honest question to you.

What, other than having a school that has a great hockey team and being a hockey fan, makes you think that Division I hockey is more popular than Division I FCS football nationally?

Hockey is one of the few sports that actually makes a profit. FCS football is not a money maker.

[JohnboyND7]

I'll give you 5 national titles, 2 mythical national titles, and 1 disputed mythical national title if it makes you feel better.

As to FCS being on par with College Hockey....that is so far from reality it doesn't deserve any further discussion.

Are you going to tell me Notre Dame's 11 National Championships aren't real then either? The system at the time was how it was done. I'm going to take a wild guess that if UND was a football powerhouse in say...the 50's, and they won 5 national titles in that span, that you would tell us UND has 6 National Championships. And no one could disagree with you, because you'd have the trophy hung up somewhere to prove it.

Umm....Bemidji St. made it to the Frozen Four. Minnesota-Deluth won a National Championship. When 2/3 of the schools aren't even division 1, it really is hard to consider it division 1 athletics. The quality of play might be pretty good, but when teams like THAT are doing good, it loses legitimacy for your sport. Any division 1 sport that Bemidji St. can make it to the frozen four, can not say ANYTHING bad about FCS football. And GeauxSioux, go ask Gene Taylor, Montana's AD, Appy St.'s AD, or any number of athletic directors if they are making money on the football team. FCS vs. Hockey is an argument no one is going to win, NDSU fans are going to tell you that football is a pretty big deal outside of Grand Forks, ND and UND fans are going to say that FCS is nothing to be proud of. I might ask, if you guys don't think FCS is relevant, then why did you guys move up? You could have hung out in D2 for forever and kept your "D1" hockey team and played with your peers.

[GeauxSioux]

Are you going to tell me Notre Dame's 11 National Championships aren't real then either? The system at the time was how it was done. I'm going to take a wild guess that if UND was a football powerhouse in say...the 50's, and they won 5 national titles in that span, that you would tell us UND has 6 National Championships. And no one could disagree with you, because you'd have the trophy hung up somewhere to prove it.

Umm....Bemidji St. made it to the Frozen Four. Minnesota-Deluth won a National Championship. When 2/3 of the schools aren't even division 1, it really is hard to consider it division 1 athletics. The quality of play might be pretty good, but when teams like THAT are doing good, it loses legitimacy for your sport. Any division 1 sport that Bemidji St. can make it to the frozen four, can not say ANYTHING bad about FCS football. And GeauxSioux, go ask Gene Taylor, Montana's AD, Appy St.'s AD, or any number of athletic directors if they are making money on the football team. FCS vs. Hockey is an argument no one is going to win, NDSU fans are going to tell you that football is a pretty big deal outside of Grand Forks, ND and UND fans are going to say that FCS is nothing to be proud of. I might ask, if you guys don't think FCS is relevant, then why did you guys move up? You could have hung out in D2 for forever and kept your "D1" hockey team and played with your peers.

I don't recall where I read it, but very few NCAA championships make money. I believe the only ones were basketball, baseball and hockey. Since FBS football championships are not run by the NCAA, it is not included. Note what is missing.... FCS football. Money loser. Sure there are some programs that make money, such as NDSU and Montana, but more lose money than make it.

Look at the schools in the current WCHA. Hockey is a cash cow for most of these schools.

I'm not saying FCS isn't relevant. I'm saying that it isn't as profitable as hockey.

[darell1976]

Are you going to tell me Notre Dame's 11 National Championships aren't real then either? The system at the time was how it was done. I'm going to take a wild guess that if UND was a football powerhouse in say...the 50's, and they won 5 national titles in that span, that you would tell us UND has 6 National Championships. And no one could disagree with you, because you'd have the trophy hung up somewhere to prove it.

Umm....Bemidji St. made it to the Frozen Four. Minnesota-Deluth won a National Championship. When 2/3 of the schools aren't even division 1, it really is hard to consider it division 1 athletics. The quality of play might be pretty good, but when teams like THAT are doing good, it loses legitimacy for your sport. Any division 1 sport that Bemidji St. can make it to the frozen four, can not say ANYTHING bad about FCS football. And GeauxSioux, go ask Gene Taylor, Montana's AD, Appy St.'s AD, or any number of athletic directors if they are making money on the football team. FCS vs. Hockey is an argument no one is going to win, NDSU fans are going to tell you that football is a pretty big deal outside of Grand Forks, ND and UND fans are going to say that FCS is nothing to be proud of. I might ask, if you guys don't think FCS is relevant, then why did you guys move up? You could have hung out in D2 for forever and kept your "D1" hockey team and played with your peers.

Football will always take a backseat to hockey in ND!! How many kids from UND or NDSU make it to the NFL compared to the NHL? Also to NDSU if football is a big deal why didn't they move up after winning DII title after DII title? They could have moved up in the late 80's. Why did they hung around? Only to get thumped by UND in the 90's and 2000's.

[darell1976]

You poopoo that like it's a no big deal thing. Getting the dance is a MAJOR accomplishment, if you weren't so blinded by NDSU hatred you would see that.

So if recruiting is how you measure success during the transition, are you saying that UND has recruited to a level that you will be ready when the transition ends? From my limited time on this board I have heard a lot of complaining about your recruiting classes of late. In fact there is another thread on this board that a poster said he thinks UND had more talent 5-10 years ago than they do now.

I am sure it is a major accomplishment a lot of schools haven't had that success but just getting there with an auto-bid isn't that hard to do when you think of it. A team with a crappy record could win the conference title and get in and get blown apart by a Duke or Kentucky. But how about getting back to the dance over and over that is more of an accomplishment. NDSU hasn't been close since 2008.

[JohnboyND7]

I don't recall where I read it, but very few NCAA championships make money. I believe the only ones were basketball, baseball and hockey. Since FBS football championships are not run by the NCAA, it is not included. Note what is missing.... FCS football. Money loser. Sure there are some programs that make money, such as NDSU and Montana, but more lose money than make it.

Look at the schools in the current WCHA. Hockey is a cash cow for most of these schools.

I'm not saying FCS isn't relevant. I'm saying that it isn't as profitable as hockey.

I don't see a problem then? If my school is making money on it I am happy. If you have a good FCS football team, generally speaking your team will make money. There are exceptions to any rule however. I never said hockey was less profitable, I'm saying it is comparable to FCS when you want to have a conversation with an average sports fan. They might pretend to be interested, and they might let you ramble on a bit about UND hockey or NDSU football, but at the end of the day, they want the conversation to be done so they can turn on espn to see how Alabama did against LSU.

Another feeble attempt to get this thread back on topic! Hey guys! Has anyone heard anything more on what Faison/Taylor are considering and what not?

[Teeder11]

Football will always take a backseat to hockey in ND!! How many kids from UND or NDSU make it to the NFL compared to the NHL? Also to NDSU if football is a big deal why didn't they move up after winning DII title after DII title? They could have moved up in the late 80's. Why did they hung around? Only to get thumped by UND in the 90's and 2000's.

'Cause Joe Chappy A$$ wasn't around yet to throw his egotistical weight around to take N.D. A.C. to the "next level" and make an "impact." You can build quite a progam when you funnel resources away from academics and into athletics and you can build quite an "on campus" student enrollment when you waive tuition 100 percent to the tune of $15 million a year. Problem is you eventually have to pay the piper as we are seeing after this past legislative session and all the problems bordering on scandals that have eminated from the ol' A.C.

[darell1976]

'Cause Joe Chappy A$$ wasn't around yet to throw his egotistical weight around to take N.D. A.C. to the "next level" and make an "impact." You can build quite a progam when you funnel resources away from academics and into athletics and you can build quite an "on campus" student enrollment when you waive tuition 100 percent to the tune of $15 million a year. Problem is you eventually have to pay the piper as we are seeing after this past legislative session and all the problems bordering on scandals that have eminated from the ol' A.C.

The proof of that is just look at the enrollment numbers on how quickly UND has caught up. The % increase for NDSU is very tiny while UND's % increase is almost in the double digits (9.5%).

[Bison06]

I don't recall where I read it, but very few NCAA championships make money. I believe the only ones were basketball, baseball and hockey. Since FBS football championships are not run by the NCAA, it is not included. Note what is missing.... FCS football. Money loser. Sure there are some programs that make money, such as NDSU and Montana, but more lose money than make it.

Look at the schools in the current WCHA. Hockey is a cash cow for most of these schools.

I'm not saying FCS isn't relevant. I'm saying that it isn't as profitable as hockey.

Profitable to the NCAA maybe, I'll agree with that, I'd be interested to see the actual numbers but it seems logical.

Why is it always argued about whether football or hockey is bigger in the state? What is the point? They don't even compete against each other for a fan base. I know plenty of NDSU football fans who are UND hockey fans, so why this constant dick measuring contest between the fans of these two?

NDSU fans say we have more fans at each game, UND fans say well we have more total fans come to games throughout the season? It's the same as the Vikings arguing with the twins about who has more fans. Who cares, they don't compete against each other.

[JohnboyND7]

Football will always take a backseat to hockey in ND!! How many kids from UND or NDSU make it to the NFL compared to the NHL? Also to NDSU if football is a big deal why didn't they move up after winning DII title after DII title? They could have moved up in the late 80's. Why did they hung around? Only to get thumped by UND in the 90's and 2000's.

I hope you are aware that rivalries go in cycles. Notre Dame just broke their streak of 9 losses against USC. Notre Dame still has a huge lead on USC as far as the series goes.

Pretty sure NDSU football in the 80's was the first thing on people's minds as far as athletics go. Keep in mind bro, there are more high school football players in America than there are hockey players in the world if you look at the numbers. UND is one of 60 hockey teams in the US. They are going to get good players. Good players capable of playing in the NHL. NDSU competes for players against 230-some division 1 schools. From that stat alone, it is going to be pretty hard to recruit against Notre Dame, Texas, USC, Florida, 'Bama, etc., etc. That is an unfair analysis of which school is better. NDSU doesn't have the resources to compete against that. Tell you what, say that every D1 school in the nation north of Oklahoma had a hockey program for the last 70 years, do you honestly think UND would have 7 national championships? No. UND chose to be a hockey school and it has worked out good for them. NDSU does football. I thought you were smarter than that Darell.

As to why NDSU didn't move D1 at the time? I don't know, maybe it had something to do with the fact that moving up to D1 takes a huge financial commitment. Why aren't you asking us why Appalachian St. isn't FBS now? I mean, they won 3 championships in a row, that means you have to move up right? You are a very simple minded individual. Sometimes the other side of the fence isn't as green as it looks. Thats why you stay in your lawn until your lawn is dying(D2 is dying).

[Bison06]

I don't recall where I read it, but very few NCAA championships make money. I believe the only ones were basketball, baseball and hockey. Since FBS football championships are not run by the NCAA, it is not included. Note what is missing.... FCS football. Money loser. Sure there are some programs that make money, such as NDSU and Montana, but more lose money than make it.

Look at the schools in the current WCHA. Hockey is a cash cow for most of these schools.

I'm not saying FCS isn't relevant. I'm saying that it isn't as profitable as hockey.

Is UND football not profitable?

[GeauxSioux]

Profitable to the NCAA maybe, I'll agree with that, I'd be interested to see the actual numbers but it seems logical.

Why is it always argued about whether football or hockey is bigger in the state? What is the point? They don't even compete against each other for a fan base. I know plenty of NDSU football fans who are UND hockey fans, so why this constant dick measuring contest between the fans of these two?

NDSU fans say we have more fans at each game, UND fans say well we have more total fans come to games throughout the season? It's the same as the Vikings arguing with the twins about who has more fans. Who cares, they don't compete against each other.

Maybe we should merge two threads....

Here's the results for total home attendance:

UND 356,000

Old Dominion 328,500

Delaware 259,800

Appy State 247,000

Villanova 247,000

Montana 244,000

Georgetown 227,000

James Madison 215,000

N Iowa 208,000

UMass 193,000

NDSU 190,000

[GeauxSioux]

Is UND football not profitable?

North Dakota's athletic department is profitable, because of hockey. I don't know the numbers on whether football is profitable or not at North Dakota.

[FargoBison]

The proof of that is just look at the enrollment numbers on how quickly UND has caught up. The % increase for NDSU is very tiny while UND's % increase is almost in the double digits (9.5%).

NDSU has grown as large as the state of ND will allow it to grow, if the state funded the school fairly perhaps some more moderate growth could occur but that won't be happening anytime soon.

[JohnboyND7]

The proof of that is just look at the enrollment numbers on how quickly UND has caught up. The % increase for NDSU is very tiny while UND's % increase is almost in the double digits (9.5%).

You are aware that a ton of UND's growth is online classes. If you look at students on campus NDSU has about 1500-2000 more students. I don't see why enrollment numbers even matter? Are you guys mad that NDSU is a bigger school or something? I'm sure Notre Dame and Duke don't care that they have fewer than NDSU, they know that they can rock NDSU's world is most sports.

GeauxSioux, how bout we add another 15 games to NDSU's home football schedule and then lets look at that UND's big attendence boost comes from the hockey team, you get around 20 home games a year for that right? So......where do we go from here?

[darell1976]

NDSU has grown as large as the state of ND will allow it to grow, if the state funded the school fairly perhaps some more moderate growth could occur but that won't be happening anytime soon.

And maybe since Chapman's free rides are over many students aren't choosing NDSU for that little perk.

[Bison06]

I am sure it is a major accomplishment a lot of schools haven't had that success but just getting there with an auto-bid isn't that hard to do when you think of it. A team with a crappy record could win the conference title and get in and get blown apart by a Duke or Kentucky. But how about getting back to the dance over and over that is more of an accomplishment. NDSU hasn't been close since 2008.

Of course doing something more than once is more of an accomplishment than doing it just once. That doesn't make doing it once any less special.

Northwestern has been trying for quite a long time to get into the tournament that "getting in with an auto-bid isn't that hard to do".

[GeauxSioux]

You are aware that a ton of UND's growth is online classes. If you look at students on campus NDSU has about 1500-2000 more students. I don't see why enrollment numbers even matter? Are you guys mad that NDSU is a bigger school or something? I'm sure Notre Dame and Duke don't care that they have fewer than NDSU, they know that they can rock NDSU's world is most sports.

GeauxSioux, how bout we add another 15 games to NDSU's home football schedule and then lets look at that UND's big attendence boost comes from the hockey team, you get around 20 home games a year for that right? So......where do we go from here?

How about we add another 10,000 seats the Ralph.

[Bison06]

Maybe we should merge two threads....

It's always interesting to hear the same talking points come out of UND and NDSU fans, but this one has got to go.

You seem like a logical person, so you realize that UND hockey makes up the vast majority of that. NDSU doesn't even offer that sport so it only makes sense if you have an extra sport, which to UND's credit is attended quite well, that you will have a higher total attendance for the year.

[Teeder11]

You are aware that a ton of UND's growth is online classes. If you look at students on campus NDSU has about 1500-2000 more students. I don't see why enrollment numbers even matter? Are you guys mad that NDSU is a bigger school or something? I'm sure Notre Dame and Duke don't care that they have fewer than NDSU, they know that they can rock NDSU's world is most sports.

GeauxSioux, how bout we add another 15 games to NDSU's home football schedule and then lets look at that UND's big attendence boost comes from the hockey team, you get around 20 home games a year for that right? So......where do we go from here?

Evidently it mattered to Chapman.

[darell1976]

How about we add another 10,000 seats the Ralph.

UND could pack 30,000 in the Ralph. If hockey wasn't popular was is a little school like Moorhead trying to start one up with the financial problems Minnesota has. Why does Fargo have junior hockey? Why is there now girls hockey in high schools. Yep hockey isn't popular around here.