Opinions on Fighting Sioux

[GeauxSioux]

I see there a couple of letters to the editor today...

UND logo vote will have fallout

Here is how this issue affects me indirectly: As an assistant professor at North Dakota State University, when I travel to professional conferences, other professors see my nametag and assume I come from the university with an Indian mascot. Immediately, I am put on the defensive – I have to explain to outsiders that we have more than one university in North Dakota and I don’t work at that one. However, I can tell that the taint of racism lingers in the air between us.

In one case, a Native American professor from another state, whom I respect a great deal, taunted me thus: “So you’re from North Dakota, where you’ve got Fighting WHAT? Fighting WHAT?” I never did get to talk with him about my research.

However, this is a minor loss compared to the history of loss experienced by American Indian people in this region. It is simply wrong for one group of humans to use another group of humans as a mascot. It’s just common sense to retire the mascot, and it should have been done long ago.

Sounds to me like your colleagues have open minds willing to discuss issues.

By the way UND does not have a mascot. Is your opinion the same of the Fighting Irish, who do have a mascot and also have a logo with a fighting leprechaun?

It looks like repeat of history

Several years ago the NCAA, representing the Sioux Indians, and the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education, representing white North Dakotans, concluded a legal parley with a treaty. ...

....Would whites, true to their history, renege on a treaty, or would they keep their word and honor the wishes of all the Sioux chiefs? On March 11, 2011, that question was answered.

First the NCAA was NOT representing the Sioux Indians. If they had been, maybe they should have gone to Spirit Lake and asked them how they felt. Second, as stated in another thread, there is a 1969 agreement with Standing Rock for the use of the name. Who is reneging on that??

[Oxbow6]

I see there a couple of letters to the editor today...

UND logo vote will have fallout

Sounds to me like your colleagues have open minds willing to discuss issues.

By the way UND does not have a mascot. Is your opinion the same of the Fighting Irish, who do have a mascot and also have a logo with a fighting leprechaun?

It looks like repeat of history

First the NCAA was NOT representing the Sioux Indians. If they had been, maybe they should have gone to Spirit Lake and asked them how they felt. Second, as stated in another thread, there is a 1969 agreement with Standing Rock for the use of the name. Who is reneging on that??

All I had to read in the Forum this AM was that this "intellect" was a professor, an assistant at that, to disregard his/her opinion. An assistant prof at NDSU? What the %#*@ is that? Same playing field as head Home Ec. teacher at Central Cass HS???

This letter shows the prevailing "logic" from the elitist academia at UND, in this state and in this nation regarding anything they see a not being PC. It is just down right pathetic that this drivil continues to get print in our local papers.

[star2city]

I see there a couple of letters to the editor today...

UND logo vote will have fallout

Sounds to me like your colleagues have open minds willing to discuss issues.

By the way UND does not have a mascot. Is your opinion the same of the Fighting Irish, who do have a mascot and also have a logo with a fighting leprechaun?

It looks like repeat of history

First the NCAA was NOT representing the Sioux Indians. If they had been, maybe they should have gone to Spirit Lake and asked them how they felt. Second, as stated in another thread, there is a 1969 agreement with Standing Rock for the use of the name. Who is reneging on that??

Kelli Sassi should have pulled a Wisconsin and chained herself to the Capitol steps in January until the bill was defeated if she feels so violated.

One of the best arguments for keeping the nickname that rarely gets mentioned is keeping pinheads like the NDSU professor away from UND and North Dakota. Regardless of their view, if a professor doesn't have the social or emotional intelligence to not be flustered by the situation, they have no business as a professor. Some of the UND professors have basically devoted their entire working career to being full time lobbyists to rid UND of the nickname.

[darell1976]

I see there a couple of letters to the editor today...

UND logo vote will have fallout

Sounds to me like your colleagues have open minds willing to discuss issues.

By the way UND does not have a mascot. Is your opinion the same of the Fighting Irish, who do have a mascot and also have a logo with a fighting leprechaun?

It looks like repeat of history

First the NCAA was NOT representing the Sioux Indians. If they had been, maybe they should have gone to Spirit Lake and asked them how they felt. Second, as stated in another thread, there is a 1969 agreement with Standing Rock for the use of the name. Who is reneging on that??

Exactly. So if Florida State plays NDSU I am sure this assistant prof will be out there protesting.

[iramurphy]

Exactly. So if Florida State plays NDSU I am sure this assistant prof will be out there protesting.

The NCAA represented the NCAA and no one else. The SBoHE represented the University and the State of North Dakota including Native Americans who support keeping the name.

I believe the professor from the AC is one we used in our school district to give a talk on diversity to our staff. I understood she was from UND and I was going to srite a letter requesting they fire her until I learned she was from the AC. She did a power point presentation and for the most part sat on her butt then told the audience they could read it themselves. Occasionally she injected stories of how terrible the Indian Schools were for her grandparents and how she has inheritied that hurt and how painful it is for her. Her stories were the same kid of stuff we got from the nuns in Catholic school. Pulling your ears, washing your mouth out with soap, kneeling in the corner on a hard surface, getting whacked on the hand with a ruler or in the butt wiht a stick. For some reason she couldn't understand that was what some nus used to do and it was the same for the Catholic kids. She also said giving a presentation was so painful for her she would have to take time off for a few days to recover. She was an embarrassment to NDSU, and an embarrassment to her own culture. We had numerous complaints about wasting our staff time and she will never ever be brought back to our district.!

This is type of rhetoric that has been used for 40 years by these people and they present all of what they claim as fact. including the misinformation that we have a mascot. I will be attending the Native American Caucus at the National School Board Convention instead of the Frozen Four and I will be wearing my UND gear including the logo.

For what it is worth we are changing the facts a little here. There was no agreement in 1969, there was a ceremony affirming the Elders support of the name that UND received permission to use the name back in about 1938. It came from a group of elders though, not their tribal council.

[tho0505]

We better get rid of the Vikings nickname then as well. I forgot that its wrong to show respect and remember ones heritage and culture. My grandparents are norwegian and when they pass away our culture and heritage will go with it, unless we do something about it. I'm not saying its our job to preserve Native American culture, but the Sioux, fans, and sports teams show the upmost respect to the logo and culture.

My brother in law is Native American and does really well in business, he wears Sioux gear as well as his entire family. But their culture is dying as well.

[The Sicatoka]

If your ancestry is northern European please commence flooding the NCAA with protests against the University of Idaho Vandals.

Q: What's a Vandal?

A: "The Vandals were an Germanic tribe ... "

[CAS4127]

If your ancestry is northern European please commence flooding the NCAA with protests against the University of Idaho Vandals.

Q: What's a Vandal?

A: "The Vandals were an Germanic tribe ... "

Perhaps, to make a statement, UND should not play them in FB or any other sport. See if Kelley will go with that.

[Knickball2]

Erich Longie, Leigh Jennotte, Ron His Horse Is Thunder, Jesse Taken Alive, and others like them, if not for the Anti-nickname platform for which each

has opined, we wouldn't have a clue who these individuals were. My mother is an enrolled member of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, so I have a firm grasp

as to who these individuals are and what they represent, these four are not noteworthy, are hardly widely followed leaders, and quite frankly we've heard

all we need to hear from each of them. Nothing new, same old woes me, and same old undocumented complaints of hostility at UND. Power to the majority,

and Fighting Sioux forever!

[The Sicatoka]

Perhaps, to make a statement, UND should not play them in FB or any other sport. See if Kelley will go with that.

Nah. I'd rather see folks complain (as a minority opinion in a minority demographic) directly to the NCAA. They'll listen, right? They've listened to other minorities of minorities in the past. Or is there something someone of northern European heritage might be missing relative to say a Native American.

[GeauxSioux]

Kicking the can well into the 21st Century

The most important thing to remember is that this is not really about Indians at all. It is about white people's appropriation of Indian iconography, terminology, and heritage for their own purposes. It is about the fierce loyalty and nostalgia of alumni. It is about the power of sports to whip otherwise rational people into a frenzy. It is about the nature of power - the power of the NCAA over its contractual-obligated membership; the power of a sovereign state versus a "politically correct outside organization," as one Fighting Sioux advocate put it last week; the power of the Legislature versus the power of the State Board of Higher Education.

And though nobody wants to talk about this, it is about the power of white people to tell Indians what they mean in American culture and where they belong in American life.

[GeauxSioux]

LLOYD OMDAHL: Higher-ed board must fight unconstitutional law

Passage of the logo bill has consequences that could extend far into the future.

If the political branches can commandeer the board

[mikejm]

From a strictly constitutional point of view, I think Omdahl is correct.

I made a comment earlier about a constitutional crisis in the making; this would be the second time it is accurate.

This is going to be a real mess, and I am not including the NCAA in making this determination.

[The Whistler]

From a strictly constitutional point of view, I think Omdahl is correct.

I made a comment earlier about a constitutional crisis in the making; this would be the second time it is accurate.

This is going to be a real mess, and I am not including the NCAA in making this determination.

And if the Board of Higher Education defies the legislature and the public then they get everyone even more royally pissed off at them.....

Not a good strategy.

If the Board of Higher Education had tried to keep the name and lost they wouldn't be in this position. I say the heck with them.

[star2city]

Kicking the can well into the 21st Century

No Clay Jenkinson, it is about the power of the majority of both "anglos" and Indians to tell elite leadership that Indian symbols are meaningful symbols that bridge cultures. The media and so-called intellectuals like Mr Jenkinson keep repeating that the nickname is divisive, when the opposite is true:

Nothing has bridged the Indian and at-large communities more than the nickname issue. It is minority groups in both communities that are demanding a scorched earth policy and desire ill-will between the communities.

[The Whistler]

No Clay Jenkinson, it is about the power of the majority of both "anglos" and Indians to tell elite leadership that Indian symbols are meaningful symbols that bridge cultures. The media and so-called intellectuals like Mr Jenkinson keep repeating that the nickname is divisive, when the opposite is true:

Nothing has bridged the Indian and at-large communities more than the nickname issue. It is minority groups in both communities that are demanding a scorched earth policy and desire ill-will between the communities.

hear hear.

[The Sicatoka]

Kicking the can well into the 21st Century

He's right in that statement: A bunch of folks at the NCAA are trying to tell Spirit Lake their vote means nothing.

[ScottW]

In case you are wondering where the Grand Forks Herald stands on the Nickname just look at the letters to the editor that they have posted, most of them are all in opposition to the name. I wrote this and submitted to them after reading that peice of trash written by the NDSU assistant proffessor, but unfortuantly they have not posted my letter.

After reading the last few Letters to the Editor about the Fighting Sioux nickname I had to write my own response. I feel there are many uneducated people commenting on the subject and there are some things that have been misspoken on and need to be corrected.

In some of the letters I have read people have referred to UND

[westsidesioux]

The Bismarck Tribune has weighed in this week...

My link

GO SIOUX!!!!

[PhillySioux]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/316817/

Latest from Forum Editorial Board

[star2city]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/316817/

Latest from Forum Editorial Board

The Forum's Zaleski and who ever else helps write those editorials may be the most juvenile writers around.. Almost reminiscent of the Forum's editorial lambasting the Alerus Center as a "tin shed" compared to the Fargodome, because the Forum had Ralph envy. Is the Forum using the middle school fans on Bisonville as ghost writers?

[sioux7>5]

The Forum's Zaleski and who ever else helps write those editorials may be the most juvenile writers around.. Almost reminiscent of the Forum's editorial lambasting the Alerus Center as a "tin shed" compared to the Fargodome, because the Forum had Ralph envy. Is the Forum using the middle school fans on Bisonville as ghost writers?

I just read that piece of crap. What a bunch of BS. Do these people not pay attention to the people of North Dakota. I guess it is just another case of them being smarter then me. I can't believe that they would even wawste paper printing that garbage. I also notice there was no place to leave a comment like most papers do.

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/316817/

Latest from Forum Editorial Board

What the NCAA did not say, but what is a genuine possibility, is that some universities will decline regular-season competition with UND (or at UND) because of the logo.

What a bunch of BS?? Just because the Gophers, Badgers and Iowa have this policy the entire 300+ D1 teams will not schedule UND because of our nickname? What would be funny is if all the Indian nicknamed teams start scheduling us. UND @ Florida State, or UND vs Central Michigan or UND vs William and Mary. This writer is a total douche plain and simple.

[PhillySioux]

What a bunch of BS?? Just because the Gophers, Badgers and Iowa have this policy the entire 300+ D1 teams will not schedule UND because of our nickname? What would be funny is if all the Indian nicknamed teams start scheduling us. UND @ Florida State, or UND vs Central Michigan or UND vs William and Mary. This writer is a total douche plain and simple.

I couldn't find that prediction anywhere in the piece.

[darell1976]

I couldn't find that prediction anywhere in the piece.

Its suggesting we will have a hard to scheduling teams that decline us because of our name, well there are over 300 teams in D1 basketball over 100+ in the FBS and the FCS has 127 teams in 2013 with Charlotte and Mercer starting and the exit of UMASS.