With UND as the single Dakota Big Sky school -

[star2city]

Wanted to start a different thread to focus more on how UND's athletics will be different, now that it is separate from other Dakota schools.

First off, it is clear that we will be dependent on Montana schools for rivalries and fan interest. If they leave, that creates a major conference issue. We need the Montana schools to stay in the Big Sky.

But, if the move to DI is all about marketing and placing UND's name out there in the college sports world, isn't separating ourselves from the rest of the Dakota schools a positive statement that we are different? Not joining a psuedo-NCC creates anxiety, that is understandable. With UND in the Big Sky, the coverage that UND will receive will vastly increase compared to other Dakota schools in the western US. UND will be perceived as the bold institution, the one that takes risks, the one that is innovative, while the other Dakota schools would be more likely viewed as stodgy Midwestern schools. If NDSU had had an opportunity to jump to the Big Sky by itself in 2005, it would have taken it, no questions asked. With UND actually having that opportunity, we doubt ourselves and our institution.

What's the effect on the potential success of each sport?

Football

- UND now becomes the only Dakota school that plays regularly in the west. UND should be able to out recruit any of the other Dakota schools in Arizona, Colorado, or California.

- UND now offers MN and WI recruits the chance for meaningful travel. May be a negative for certain recruits that want relatives to travel to all games. But now, NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNI, WIU will all be going after the same recruits in the same locations. UND will offer something different.

- UND would have annual games vs Montana and Montana State. Huge impact in western ND.

- If the indoor practice facility is built, UND facilities will exceed most FCS schools.

Overall very positive for football.

Basketball

- Again, UND will offer a vastly different travel experience for Minnesota and Wisconsin mid-major recruits that NDSU, SDSU, and USD can't.

- Jones and Roebuck have to start gaining mid-major Minnesota and Wisconsin recruits. That hasn't been happening yet.

- Travel issue will likely be used very effectively against UND in recruiting.

- Facilities are excellent. Games against Montana and Montana State could be "Ralph" games.

- Pre-conference scheduling would be very regional

Overall neutral to even negative

Volleyball

- Again, UND would offer a vastly different experience than the other Dakota schools.

- Volleyball talent is very good in the west.

- Travel isn't in the winter.

- Pre-conference scheduling would be very regional

Overall positive

T&F and CC

- Dependent on practice facility more than conference

Swimming

- Tremendously positive as it would be affiliated with a higher league than the Summit

Tennis

With new Grand Forks Wellness Center, the facilities will be top of the line.

Huge new recruiting area.

- Very positive

Golf

- Drop men's golf. Not worth it with no conference.

Softball

The recruits come from the West.

They have to travel early anyway.

A practice facility would help immensely.

Big Sky will start softball

- Very positive.

Soccer

Expanded recruiting area.

A practice facility would help with winter conditioning.

- Positive

Baseball

No meaningful conference.

These would be my major goals for the UND athletic department:

1. Establish and continue rivalries with Montana and Montana State, even if it means FBS eventually.

2. When Minnesota and Wisconsin leave the WCHA, ensure that a hockey conference relationship with Notre Dame is established.

3. Drop baseball. Start men's lacrosse and begin a conference with Denver, Air Force, USC and Stanford.

We don't live in the NCC world anymore.

[gabe01]

I think both schools are headed in completely different directions. The footprints are much different. The Dakota schools will recruit from Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, Ohio, and Indiana. UND will recruit more in Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, & California. As usual, both will focus on ND, MN, & WI.

[HaksHomey]

Too much attention on the South Dakota schools. I imagine UND and NDSU will schedule some games together. Do we miss St. Cloud and Mankato? I don't. Likewise we won't miss SDSU and USD. Big Sky is a new chapter full of potential.

[The Sicatoka]

These would be my major goals for the UND athletic department:

1. Establish and continue rivalries with Montana and Montana State, even if it means FBS eventually.

Yup, and yup.

2. When Minnesota and Wisconsin leave the WCHA, ensure that a hockey conference relationship with Notre Dame is established.

Don't forget DU and Omaha. Those four (NDU, DU, UNO, UND) as a core would have just about the same power ranking as a BTCH in the average year. (PS - That BTCH is intentional, call it the Big Ten Conference for Hockey or UND's BTCH for short. )

3. Drop baseball. Start men's lacrosse and begin a conference with Denver, Air Force, USC and Stanford.

Now you're just suckin' up to me.

We don't live in the NCC world anymore.

Never truer words posted.

[Coyote Fan]

Of the 4 Dakota schools only one made the right choice and that was UND. Good luck to you in your ventures to the Big Sky. USD just didn't have the guts to make their own leap of faith. They will get eaten alive in the MVFC. Many bottom of the league finishes on the near horizon.

[SiouxMD]

Of the 4 Dakota schools only one made the right choice and that was UND. Good luck to you in your ventures to the Big Sky. USD just didn't have the guts to make their own leap of faith. They will get eaten alive in the MVFC. Many bottom of the league finishes on the near horizon.

Yote fans have been kinda quiet today on SiouxSports...what's new in Vermillion?

[nd1sufan]

These would be my major goals for the UND athletic department:

1. Establish and continue rivalries with Montana and Montana State, even if it means FBS eventually.

Did I miss something? Doesn't the NCAA require a school to have minimum capacity for football seating and AVERAGE 15,000 fans per game? UND Better get started on that retractible roof stadium and skip the indoor practice facility.

[The Sicatoka]

Patience. Patience.

[dakotadan]

Did I miss something? Doesn't the NCAA require a school to have minimum capacity for football seating and AVERAGE 15,000 fans per game? UND Better get started on that retractible roof stadium and skip the indoor practice facility.

This may happen much sooner than you think.

[Rick]

Wanted to start a different thread to focus more on how UND's athletics will be different, now that it is separate from other Dakota schools.

First off, it is clear that we will be dependent on Montana schools for rivalries and fan interest. If they leave, that creates a major conference issue. We need the Montana schools to stay in the Big Sky.

But, if the move to DI is all about marketing and placing UND's name out there in the college sports world, isn't separating ourselves from the rest of the Dakota schools a positive statement that we are different? Not joining a psuedo-NCC creates anxiety, that is understandable. With UND in the Big Sky, the coverage that UND will receive will vastly increase compared to other Dakota schools in the western US. UND will be perceived as the bold institution, the one that takes risks, the one that is innovative, while the other Dakota schools would be more likely viewed as stodgy Midwestern schools. If NDSU had had an opportunity to jump to the Big Sky by itself in 2005, it would have taken it, no questions asked. With UND actually having that opportunity, we doubt ourselves and our institution.

What's the effect on the potential success of each sport?

Football

- UND now becomes the only Dakota school that plays regularly in the west. UND should be able to out recruit any of the other Dakota schools in Arizona, Colorado, or California.

- UND now offers MN and WI recruits the chance for meaningful travel. May be a negative for certain recruits that want relatives to travel to all games. But now, NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNI, WIU will all be going after the same recruits in the same locations. UND will offer something different.

- UND would have annual games vs Montana and Montana State. Huge impact in western ND.

- If the indoor practice facility is built, UND facilities will exceed most FCS schools.

Overall very positive for football.

Basketball

- Again, UND will offer a vastly different travel experience for Minnesota and Wisconsin mid-major recruits that NDSU, SDSU, and USD can't.

- Jones and Roebuck have to start gaining mid-major Minnesota and Wisconsin recruits. That hasn't been happening yet.

- Travel issue will likely be used very effectively against UND in recruiting.

- Facilities are excellent. Games against Montana and Montana State could be "Ralph" games.

- Pre-conference scheduling would be very regional

Overall neutral to even negative

Volleyball

- Again, UND would offer a vastly different experience than the other Dakota schools.

- Volleyball talent is very good in the west.

- Travel isn't in the winter.

- Pre-conference scheduling would be very regional

Overall positive

T&F and CC

- Dependent on practice facility more than conference

Swimming

- Tremendously positive as it would be affiliated with a higher league than the Summit

Tennis

With new Grand Forks Wellness Center, the facilities will be top of the line.

Huge new recruiting area.

- Very positive

Golf

- Drop men's golf. Not worth it with no conference.

Softball

The recruits come from the West.

They have to travel early anyway.

A practice facility would help immensely.

Big Sky will start softball

- Very positive.

Soccer

Expanded recruiting area.

A practice facility would help with winter conditioning.

- Positive

Baseball

No meaningful conference.

These would be my major goals for the UND athletic department:

1. Establish and continue rivalries with Montana and Montana State, even if it means FBS eventually.

2. When Minnesota and Wisconsin leave the WCHA, ensure that a hockey conference relationship with Notre Dame is established.

3. Drop baseball. Start men's lacrosse and begin a conference with Denver, Air Force, USC and Stanford.

We don't live in the NCC world anymore.

Excellent post Star.

I see absolutely no negatives with UND being in the Big Sky. I really think if UND markets this right it will be a huge boost for the university. As I've stated in other posts, the Sioux should have a huge recruiting advantage when we go up against the other regional schools. We're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids here so it shouldn't be too hard of a sell for all the sports mentioned above.

When we're going up against the XDSU's for a recruit in football, the coaches will be telling them:

- Our home conference schedule includes the likes of Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Portland State, Sacramento State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, etc.

- Our home non-conference game is SDSU, USD or NDSU.

- Our FBS away game is Texas Tech in front of 60,000 people (example)

- Our away non-conference game is at SDSU, USD or NDSU

- Our away conference games are in Southern California, Sacramento, San Francisco area, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Montana and Colorado.

- Our training facilities are the best in the region

- We are the only Liberal Arts University in the region

- We are THE premier tier one research university in the region.

- We have a Medical School, Law School, the top Aviation School in the country, a top regional Business School, etc, etc, etc.

Now, we'd still have the academic advantages if we were in the Summit/MVFC, but the schedule, TV games and conference travel location advantages that the Big Sky Conference offers should convince most 17 and 18 y/o kids that they'd rather spend the next 4 to 5 years at UND than at SDSU, USD or NDSU.

So again, I couldn't be happier to be the Dakota school that was picked to be in the Big Sky. Several months ago all we could do is dream about being in the BSC and nobody would have every believed it was possible. It's been a great last 5 days.

[nd1sufan]

Excellent post Star.

I see absolutely no negatives with UND being in the Big Sky. I really think if UND markets this right it will be a huge boost for the university. As I've stated in other posts, the Sioux should have a huge recruiting advantage when we go up against the other regional schools. We're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids here so it shouldn't be too hard of a sell for all the sports mentioned above.

When we're going up against the XDSU's for a recruit in football, the coaches will be telling them:

- Our home conference schedule includes the likes of Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Portland State, Sacramento State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, etc.

- Our home non-conference game is SDSU, USD or NDSU.

- Our FBS away game is Texas Tech in front of 60,000 people (example)

- Our away non-conference game is at SDSU, USD or NDSU

- Our away conference games are in Southern California, Sacramento, San Francisco area, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Montana and Colorado.

- Our training facilities are the best in the region

- We are the only Liberal Arts University in the region

- We are THE premier tier one research university in the region.

- We have a Medical School, Law School, the top Aviation School in the country, a top regional Business School, etc, etc, etc.

Now, we'd still have the academic advantages if we were in the Summit/MVFC, but the schedule, TV games and conference travel location advantages that the Big Sky Conference offers should convince most 17 and 18 y/o kids that they'd rather spend the next 4 to 5 years at UND than at SDSU, USD or NDSU.

So again, I couldn't be happier to be the Dakota school that was picked to be in the Big Sky. Several months ago all we could do is dream about being in the BSC and nobody would have every believed it was possible. It's been a great last 5 days.

I guess somebody better tell Bohl he better head east, it doesn't look like he has a chance to get anyone west of Illinois

[nodakvindy]

I gotta admit I'm not crazy about FBS. Just don't see the point to get to the fringes, which is where we would be. The upcoming BCS upheaval will likely only widen the gulf between haves and have nots. I'd much prefer to see some money pumped into the basketball programs. Now that we are playing for a spot in the dance, we need to take things up a few notches. It would also be nice to capitalize on an alum who will likely have a lot more free time in 10 months, has an attachment to Big Sky country and is involved in the $500 million campaign. Just having him around the program would be a recruiting coup.

[gabe01]

Too much attention on the South Dakota schools. I imagine UND and NDSU will schedule some games together. Do we miss St. Cloud and Mankato? I don't. Likewise we won't miss SDSU and USD. Big Sky is a new chapter full of potential.

Strange statement considering 90% of UND fans called the Yotes your top rival.

Bad comparision. St Cloud and Mankato didn't even have the maximum D2 scholarship levels of 36. St Cloud only had something like 20 scholarships and they were pretty much weak teams. St Cloud is talking about dropping football altogether.

On the other hand, SDSU is actually committed and has 63 full fledges scholarships. Same goes with the Yotes. They are not the same teams they were back in the D2 days.

[Matt]

Excellent post Star.

I see absolutely no negatives with UND being in the Big Sky. I really think if UND markets this right it will be a huge boost for the university. As I've stated in other posts, the Sioux should have a huge recruiting advantage when we go up against the other regional schools. We're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids here so it shouldn't be too hard of a sell for all the sports mentioned above.

When we're going up against the XDSU's for a recruit in football, the coaches will be telling them:

- Our home conference schedule includes the likes of Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Portland State, Sacramento State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, etc.

- Our home non-conference game is SDSU, USD or NDSU.

- Our FBS away game is Texas Tech in front of 60,000 people (example)

- Our away non-conference game is at SDSU, USD or NDSU

- Our away conference games are in Southern California, Sacramento, San Francisco area, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Montana and Colorado.

- Our training facilities are the best in the region

- We are the only Liberal Arts University in the region

- We are THE premier tier one research university in the region.

- We have a Medical School, Law School, the top Aviation School in the country, a top regional Business School, etc, etc, etc.

Now, we'd still have the academic advantages if we were in the Summit/MVFC, but the schedule, TV games and conference travel location advantages that the Big Sky Conference offers should convince most 17 and 18 y/o kids that they'd rather spend the next 4 to 5 years at UND than at SDSU, USD or NDSU.

So again, I couldn't be happier to be the Dakota school that was picked to be in the Big Sky. Several months ago all we could do is dream about being in the BSC and nobody would have every believed it was possible. It's been a great last 5 days.

The nice thing about all of this is that we will be able to watch and find out if the coaching staff will follow through with all of this. I think we will see some very public recruiting battles in the region representing not only UND v NDSU, but a choice between BSC v MVFC.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Excellent post Star.

I see absolutely no negatives with UND being in the Big Sky. I really think if UND markets this right it will be a huge boost for the university. As I've stated in other posts, the Sioux should have a huge recruiting advantage when we go up against the other regional schools. We're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids here so it shouldn't be too hard of a sell for all the sports mentioned above.

When we're going up against the XDSU's for a recruit in football, the coaches will be telling them:

- Our home conference schedule includes the likes of Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Portland State, Sacramento State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, etc.

- Our home non-conference game is SDSU, USD or NDSU.

- Our FBS away game is Texas Tech in front of 60,000 people (example)

- Our away non-conference game is at SDSU, USD or NDSU

- Our away conference games are in Southern California, Sacramento, San Francisco area, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Montana and Colorado.

- Our training facilities are the best in the region

- We are the only Liberal Arts University in the region

- We are THE premier tier one research university in the region.

- We have a Medical School, Law School, the top Aviation School in the country, a top regional Business School, etc, etc, etc.

Now, we'd still have the academic advantages if we were in the Summit/MVFC, but the schedule, TV games and conference travel location advantages that the Big Sky Conference offers should convince most 17 and 18 y/o kids that they'd rather spend the next 4 to 5 years at UND than at SDSU, USD or NDSU.

So again, I couldn't be happier to be the Dakota school that was picked to be in the Big Sky. Several months ago all we could do is dream about being in the BSC and nobody would have every believed it was possible. It's been a great last 5 days.

Geez........is there any kool-aid left for the others.......LMAO!!!!

Admittedly UND made the only choice it could.........but, as was stated on the Griz board.....you guys got "Utah Stated".

[Shawn-O]

Geez........is there any kool-aid left for the others.......LMAO!!!!

Admittedly UND made the only choice it could.........but, as was stated on the Griz board.....you guys got "Utah Stated".

NDSU would have jumped at the Sky as a solo act in a New York second, don't kid yourself.

[The Phoenix]

NDSU would have jumped at the Sky as a solo act in a New York second, don't kid yourself.

Shawn-O, let's be fair. First, Wyo was clearly stating he understands that UND did the only logical thing. And yes, NDSU would have done the same thing years ago if offered. He never said anything to the contrary.

However, the idea that what happened is a good thing for UND? My goodness; UND is now on a conference island and will have very limited exposure in MN and WI. That is going to be a huge challenge. Games against Montana schools will be cool and draw fans, but that is about it.

[UND92,96]

For some reason, I just can't let go of the article Jim linked yesterday from the Terre Haute paper, in which concerns over adding a flight to the football budget for Indiana State were apparently significant both when the xDSU's were added, and again this week. And then I compare that to the NCC adding UNC (a flight for everybody except UNO, and for basketball and volleyball, too), and then the Washington schools as affiliate football members. If it wasn't a deal-breaker for a dII conference, why should it have been such a big deal for at least two members of a prominent FCS conference? Seriously, if a long-time FCS program can't afford to fly two or three times per year, maybe they need to re-think whether they can even afford to be playing scholarship FCS football.

To put it another way, if SIU is so strapped for cash, where did the money come from to pay Lennon big bucks (by FCS standards)?

[WYOBISONMAN]

NDSU would have jumped at the Sky as a solo act in a New York second, don't kid yourself.

Back before we joined the Summit.....maybe. I don't really know (and no one does) how tight we were with SDSU. In the end, every school has to look out for their own interests. But, where it stands now, no one at NDSU and very very few fans or alumni would have interest in the Big Sky.

[bincitysioux]

UND is now on a conference island and will have very limited exposure in MN and WI. That is going to be a huge challenge.

I don't think there are any Missouri Valley teams in Minnesota or Wisconsin either..........................

[Shawn-O]

Back before we joined the Summit.....maybe. I don't really know (and no one does) how tight we were with SDSU. In the end, every school has to look out for their own interests. But, where it stands now, no one at NDSU and very very few fans or alumni would have interest in the Big Sky.

I just find it laughable that you guys are trying to spin this into a net negative for UND.

[bincitysioux]

NDSU voted in favor of South Dakota joining Missouri Valley

[bincitysioux]

Back before we joined the Summit.....maybe.

Hey WYO, just in good fun, remember this? :

I would not be in favor of the Mid-Con. *I think it is a terribly weak conference that would offer NDSU little. *It would in a way cheapen our athletic programs. *I would support looking at either forming a new conference with some of the stronger schools that are coming out of D2, or remaining independent until the clouds over the Big Sky clear a bit more. *The Mid-Con smacks of a desparate jump to find conference affiliation and to me it is a step down from the NCC. I am just not in favor of this one.

[The Phoenix]

I don't think there are any Missouri Valley teams in Minnesota or Wisconsin either..........................

Point taken, but NDSU and SDSU are basically on the border and USD is not far. Further, UNI is close, too. Wisconsin is Wisconsin, but tons of Illinous teams on there border. Look at a map, and you wil see the issue. Can it be overcome? Maybe, but no way anyone can argue this helps. That is simply happy face talking. And yes, Big Sky is clearly better than being idependent.

[homer]

However, the idea that what happened is a good thing for UND? My goodness; UND is now on a conference island and will have very limited exposure in MN and WI. That is going to be a huge challenge.

Your wrong. We are in another conference that supplies us a lot of exposure in those states. Granted its for a different sport but its not like UND is going to fall of the map all of a sudden and be completely forgotten. How did we have any coverage there before playing in a Great West conference? Now if no AQ was available and come postseason play we had no opportunity to be still playing than yes, exposure would be limited. I see having that opportunity as a good thing and if the Montana's stick around along with UNC and SUU a very good thing.