Suspensions and Injurys

[sodaksioux]

We might as well get rid of all checking in college hockey. If Wehrs doesn't turtle, he just gets run over, once again WCHA rears its ugly head, I hope I get to watch Frattin put some hits like this on Denver. I hope this fires up the boys and take care of business on Thursday eve.

[Blackheart]

Maybe UND will appeal it like St Cloud did...the WCHA braintrust went from 5-8 games for Messy Marvin down to 3...maybe they can make Frattin sit just one shift...

[BobIwabuchiFan]

I've watched the Frattin hit about 12 times and I notice that his feet only leave the ice after the hit is made...kinda of like riding up on wehr when he made the hit...wehr slide low whilst he moved up....I don't see him launching off of his skates prior to the hit. I would ask everyone to slow down the hit right before contact and you can see his feet are solidly on the ground. My 2 cents...

BobIwabuchiFan

[jodcon]

Do you all agree with 1 game, or did you all expect it. I expected it. I don't agree with it.

I expected it and I can live with it, this will be the standard at least the rest of the year after the Marvin incidents, we just happened to be the ones it affected first. They're not singling us out.

[Ranger]

I expected it and I can live with it, this will be the standard at least the rest of the year after the Marvin incidents, we just happened to be the ones it affected first. They're not singling us out.

sorry, i can't put the two in the same category.

brad's screen shots:

http://www.areavoices.com/undhockey/?blog=73641

[jodcon]

sorry, i can't put the two in the same category.

brad's screen shots:

http://www.areavoices.com/undhockey/?blog=73641

I'm not comparing this to either of the Marvin hits, just saying anything that looks like this the rest of the year is probably going to result in a suspension because the WCHA is now on the defensive and will be critical of any questionable hits the rest of the year.

Before the second Marvin incident they probably wouldn't have given this a second look.

[dagies]

I've watched the Frattin hit about 12 times and I notice that his feet only leave the ice after the hit is made...kinda of like riding up on wehr when he made the hit...wehr slide low whilst he moved up....I don't see him launching off of his skates prior to the hit. I would ask everyone to slow down the hit right before contact and you can see his feet are solidly on the ground. My 2 cents...

BobIwabuchiFan

I agree. It might be simple physics. As Frattin said on the radio, he just overpowered the guy. The photos show that at the point of the most violent part of the contact Frattin's feet are still on the ice. However, Wehrs goes down and that energy has to go somewhere, so likely up. One guy bounced one way, the other went the other way.

However, Wehrs's head probably hits on Frattin's shoulder and so that may still be cause for the contact to the head discipline.

[Blackheart]

I just read the blog where former Sioux Sports poster PCM gives his take on the hit. He compares the recklessness and danger of the hit to those on Bina, Genoway, etc. I think all that time he's spending on USCHO has fried his brain...

[Sioux-cia]

Do you all agree with 1 game, or did you all expect it. I expected it. I don't agree with it.

I expected it. Doesn't matter if I agree with it or not. I thing the League is under pressure to call anything that injures a player; penalty, clean hit, intentionally, accidentally, whatever. I didn't read anywhere what the suspension was for though. Charging too fast and too hard?

[Runninwiththedogs]

I agree. It might be simple physics. As Frattin said on the radio, he just overpowered the guy. The photos show that at the point of the most violent part of the contact Frattin's feet are still on the ice. However, Wehrs goes down and that energy has to go somewhere, so likely up. One guy bounced one way, the other went the other way.

However, Wehrs's head probably hits on Frattin's shoulder and so that may still be cause for the contact to the head discipline.

Uh, Dagies... that's not how physics works. And you know I love physics.

[redwing77]

I'm not comparing this to either of the Marvin hits, just saying anything that looks like this the rest of the year is probably going to result in a suspension because the WCHA is now on the defensive and will be critical of any questionable hits the rest of the year.

Before the second Marvin incident they probably wouldn't have given this a second look.

I agree.

When Sheparse and McLoeser discover that they've been wrong all along, this is true. It's a reactionary stance because to be proactive in accountability would mean the demise of their buddy buddy ole boy network. Why? Because buddies would be fired... and Shepherd would have to act like an administrator and not as Grampa Greggie to the officials.

They are incometent buffoons who can't realize that the answer to their woes is two things:

1. Accountability of all involved from Administrators to schools to officials to players

2. The rulebook as written and approved by the NCAA (or whoever) and approved by the WCHA.

If officials are held accountable, then they are forced to better themselves or face involuntary retirement (in other words termination). Same goes for the head of officials. If the rulebook is ignored, things revert back to #1 and termination could occur.

The job of Shepherd isn't to be friends with anyone he's in charge of. He has to be absolutely positively willing to do whatever it takes, from making a positive example of good on ice performance, to canning someone (EVEN IF IT IS HIS OWN BLOOD), to make the WCHA the top collegiate hockey organization in the US. He's failed. Miserably.

Time to cut the cord.

[Sioux-cia]

I've watched the Frattin hit about 12 times and I notice that his feet only leave the ice after the hit is made...kinda of like riding up on wehr when he made the hit...wehr slide low whilst he moved up....I don't see him launching off of his skates prior to the hit. I would ask everyone to slow down the hit right before contact and you can see his feet are solidly on the ground. My 2 cents...

BobIwabuchiFan

I think we all saw and said the same thing. Huge hit, my seats are 7 rows up from where it happened and I think the impact made me bounce a little in my seat.

[yababy8]

Why isn't anyone mentioning the fact that he was involved in a race for the puck?

They were both going full speed to get to a puck?

Now there is a speed limit in hockey?

Is there some rule that suggests that a player needs to slow down and let another player get to a lose puck?

If Fratten were to have laid off on that contact he would have exposed himself to injury.

It was just a classic case of meeting at the corner, we have all done it at the office right?

If the puck would have been about 5ft around the corner of the boards closer to the direction that Fratten was traveling then Fratten would have had the worst of the hit.

It was just physics, not a suspendable offense!

For those of you that think it was worth a suspesion, what would you tell Fratten to do different as he was racing to that puck that he got to first?

BTW, I AM VERY DISSAPOINTED in all of the SS.com members and Sioux Bloggers that threw him under the bus by saying that a suspension was warranted!!

It seems that you were manipulated by mumbling (drunk?) emotional Woog? or maybe this was just what you saw as an opportunity to prove to the college hockey world that the Sioux have more rationality and dignity that everyone claims we do?

FYI, that is a lost cause! we are the recipients of cheap and the ambassadors of honor and it will never be recognized.

Think about what our guys say in press conferences about the other team- go review our last Wednesday press conference and listen to them, and then go listen to Kangas's interview on FSN.

Our players would never speak like that, I know because I listen to every interview and the Sioux are way more poised than that.

[SiouxFanatic]

This didn't come as a surprise to me. It sucks since he has just been a huge contributor to this team.

Ah well, Frattin just needs to serve the suspension and then get ready to get on the ice again.

[Blackheart]

Why isn't anyone mentioning the fact that he was involved in a race for the puck?

They were both going full speed to get to a puck?

Now there is a speed limit in hockey?

Is there some rule that suggests that a player needs to slow down and let another player get to a lose puck?

If Fratten were to have laid off on that contact he would have exposed himself to injury.

It was just a classic case of meeting at the corner, we have all done it at the office right?

If the puck would have been about 5ft around the corner of the boards closer to the direction that Fratten was traveling then Fratten would have had the worst of the hit.

It was just physics, not a suspendable offense!

For those of you that think it was worth a suspesion, what would you tell Fratten to do different as he was racing to that puck that he got to first?

BTW, I AM VERY DISSAPOINTED in all of the SS.com members and Sioux Bloggers that threw him under the bus by saying that a suspension was warranted!!

It seems that you were manipulated by mumbling (drunk?) emotional Woog? or maybe this was just what you saw as an opportunity to prove to the college hockey world that the Sioux have more rationality and dignity that everyone claims we do?

FYI, that is a lost cause! we are the recipients of cheap and the ambassitors of honor and it will never be recognized.

Think about what our guys say in press conferences about the other team- go review our last Wednesday press conference and listen to them, and then go listen to Kangas's interview on FSN.

Our players would never speak like that, I know because I listen to every interview and the Sioux are way more poised than that.

It's too bad Kangas hates North Dakota because they sure love (playing against) him.

[Sioux-cia]

Uh, Dagies... that's not how physics works. And you know I love physics.

I don't know physics. So, from a professional view point, how does he go from blades on the ice when he makes contact with Wehr's body, as the pics clearly show, to flying in the air?

[Sioux-cia]

Why isn't anyone mentioning the fact that he was involved in a race for the puck?

They were both going full speed to get to a puck?

Now there is a speed limit in hockey?

Is there some rule that suggests that a player needs to slow down and let another player get to a lose puck?

If Fratten were to have laid off on that contact he would have exposed himself to injury.

It was just a classic case of meeting at the corner, we have all done it at the office right?

If the puck would have been about 5ft around the corner of the boards closer to the direction that Fratten was traveling then Fratten would have had the worst of the hit.

It was just physics, not a suspendable offense!

For those of you that think it was worth a suspesion, what would you tell Fratten to do different as he was racing to that puck that he got to first?

BTW, I AM VERY DISSAPOINTED in all of the SS.com members and Sioux Bloggers that threw him under the bus by saying that a suspension was warranted!!

It seems that you were manipulated by mumbling (drunk?) emotional Woog? or maybe this was just what you saw as an opportunity to prove to the college hockey world that the Sioux have more rationality and dignity that everyone claims we do?

FYI, that is a lost cause! we are the recipients of cheap and the ambassadors of honor and it will never be recognized.

Think about what our guys say in press conferences about the other team- go review our last Wednesday press conference and listen to them, and then go listen to Kangas's interview on FSN.

Our players would never speak like that, I know because I listen to every interview and the Sioux are way more poised than that.

I believe the general consensus is the suspension was 'expected'. Accept it and move on. We don't want to sound like a bunch of goofy fan's crying in their milk because they just noticed hockey is a physical, contact sport and if you can't play the game the way it's suppose to be played, physically, you're gonna lose. We do and sometimes we have to suck it up and move on. This is one of those times.

[Cratter]

Why isn't anyone mentioning the fact that he was involved in a race for the puck?

They were both going full speed to get to a puck?

Come on. This ones easy. Any one can see Fratts had absolutely no intention of playing the puck. Homer or not its easy to see that from the beginning.

Its probably just a reality of (WCHA) hockey now. If a player gets injured a game suspension will probably follow.

[yababy8]

I believe the general consensus is the suspension was 'expected'. Accept it and move on. We don't want to sound like a bunch of goofy fan's crying in their milk because they just noticed hockey is a physical, contact sport and if you can't play the game the way it's suppose to be played, physically, you're gonna lose. We do and sometimes we have to suck it up and move on. This is one of those times.

While there is always wisdom in moving on when you have no control to change the outcome, please consider that we just lost a player for a playoff single Illimination game.

So I will move on by saying that I have not seen that level of offensive domination from a Fighting Sioux forward since the likes of Jason Blake.

The level that Matt has been playing as of late is absolutly amazing. I will go so far as to say that if he keeps this up, even 85%-90% of what he was doing last weekend, I will argue that he is the best player in the Nation currently.

So forgive me if I dwell a little on losing this guy for a playoff game. I want to see him continue this terror. Losing him is like a TV timeout when your team is on a run!

[Cratter]

Charging:

Charging is a penalty in ice hockey. The NHL rulebook dictates that charging "shall mean the actions of a player as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A 'charge' may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice." The infraction may warrant any severity of penalty or combination of penalties as the officials deem fit, including a major plus a game misconduct, or suspension if the infraction results in injury to the opposing player.

Seems pretty textbook call to me. And hard to argue via the "NHL rulebook" (I know its not the WCHA rulebook).

[yababy8]

Charging:

Seems pretty textbook call to me. And hard to argue via the "NHL rulebook" (I know its not the WCHA rulebook).

I asked the question, what should he have done different?

Your arguments have a disregard for the fact that he and Wehrs were both in a high speed chase situation to get possesion of a puck in a do or die playoff game tied 1-1.

So Fratten gets there first and decides to take the man because he has Trupp to get the puck. That is correct positioning for cycling play. We do it dozens of times a game.

Now you might argue that he should have put the breaks on and boxed out Wehrs in Liou of checking him, but I would contend that he did not have him beat to the puck by enough to make that work.

If Fratten would have hit the breaks and vyed for position I think he would have gotten nailed and lost an opportunity for possesion.

That's how I see it.

[Runninwiththedogs]

I don't know physics. So, from a professional view point, how does he go from blades on the ice when he makes contact with Wehr's body, as the pics clearly show, to flying in the air?

He would have bounced off at a different angle if he hadn't jumped into the hit. The angle he moves at doesn't make any sense otherwise. There is no way that he would bounced up. Wehrs would have had to be pushing back for that to happen, and he didn't. The only way he could have left his feet under power other than his own would be if Wehrs was trying to hit him back and there is no way he could have, he dropped like a stone.

[Sioux-cia]

While there is always wisdom in moving on when you have no control to change the outcome, please consider that we just lost a player for a playoff single Illimination game.

So I will move on by saying that I have not seen that level of offensive domination from a Fighting Sioux forward since the likes of Jason Blake.

The level that Matt has been playing as of late is absolutly amazing. I will go so far as to say that if he keeps this up, even 85%-90% of what he was doing last weekend, I will argue that he is the best player in the Nation currently.

So forgive me if I dwell a little on losing this guy for a playoff game. I want to see him continue this terror. Losing him is like a TV timeout when your team is on a run!

Your absolutely correct.

[Sioux-cia]

He would have bounced off at a different angle if he hadn't jumped into the hit. The angle he moves at doesn't make any sense otherwise. There is no way that he would bounced up. Wehrs would have had to be pushing back for that to happen, and he didn't. The only way he could have left his feet under power other than his own would be if Wehrs was trying to hit him back and there is no way he could have, he dropped like a stone.

The only way to go from this, note his left blade is flat on the ice and the toe of the right is behind him and on the ice,

to this

is....

HE'S SUPERMAN!!!

[Cratter]

I asked the question, what should he have done different?

Um another easy one make at least the slightest attempt to play the puck.

Or

wait to hit Wehrs once he actually has "posession" of the puck.

Your right it was a race to the puck. Problem was one player wasn't racing to the puck (Fratts). The other was. It was essentially a tie with Wehrs stopping just before he touched it (or right after barely touching it) after he noticed Frattin wasn't attempting to play the puck. Thus him lowering his body embracing for a huge hit.

And hence a Charge was called. Especially given the distance Fratts traveled not even looking where the puck was.

If you are arguing that wasn't a charging penalty I would dare to call you a non smart hockey fan. Please educate yourself.

So Fratten gets there first and decides to take the man because he has Trupp to get the puck.

Thanks for proving my point. You can't "get to the puck" first and not play the puck but instead play the man. That makes no sense. You have competing forces here.

Now you might argue that he should have put the breaks on and boxed out Wehrs

Again you can't "box out" a hockey player. That is another penalty. Its called Interference.

You proved yourself not worthy of anymore of my time.