The Sicatoka Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 "C'mon Paulsen. I mean seriously, John, seriously, have you lost complete control of the Foundation? It's just a couple million." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Duh. Presidential searches are confidential until the announcement is made. The media couldn't have verified it if they tried. UWyo had to give a no comment. The media took Joe Chapman at his word. Let me put my boots on! Get the shovel quick!! Why are you so desperate to smear NDSU that you would resort to such a desperate and obviously false theory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Let me put my boots on! Get the shovel quick!! Why are you so desperate to smear NDSU that you would resort to such a desperate and obviously false theory? NDSU's opponents do that every Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Let me put my boots on! What's incredible is that you can not even conceive of your beloved purposefully deceiving you, or anyone else. Sad. In the human condition, deceit is common, unfortunately, especially among ones wielding power. You and many other bison-backers have elevated Chapman to god-like status: everything he does is wonderful because of all the "good" he has done, even if he used immoral means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonW Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 "What can I say, she's a ballbuster, rather face room full of irate pit bulls than walk in the front door and tell her no" <The preceding caption is fictional, but more than believeable.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 What's incredible is that you can not even conceive of your beloved purposefully deceiving you, or anyone else. Sad. In the human condition, deceit is common, unfortunately, especially among ones wielding power. You and many other bison-backers have elevated Chapman to god-like status: everything he does is wonderful because of all the "good" he has done, even if he used immoral means. He committed no crime in my book. And it's as simple as this: Chapman would never purposefully do anything to detract from NDSU as a university. Meaning either: 1) someone at the foundation told Chapman to use this money or made it seem as if it was ethical/acceptable/whatever (and now is covering their own a$$ by running to the media) or flat out Chapman didn't take anything that he wasn't supposed to and this money was never budgeted for academic purposes anyway. Either way, he did nothing wrong. And to think, you'd pull Fargo police officers off the street to raid his office for incriminating documents. As if there isn't enough real crime out there to keep them busy. The fact that you and other posters on this board have lunged at Chapman full force like a tiger going after a gazelle, is as comical as it is faux. "Ohhh! The outrage!!!" As if. Just keep in mind that they're coming after UND next. You have your own over-budgeted president's house to deal with. Note that Kelley and Chapman were two good ol' Wyomings boys -- peas from the same pod. Can't wait for all the support for UND's president, though. Your motto should be "Be UND. Be realistic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detroit87 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Those are not honest answers to questions and I would like to hear the reasoning behind this and how you came to your conclusion. If all donors to the NDSU foundation are told that not a dollar is going to go towards scholarships, educational programs, or educators, then what is the point of donating? It is a University and the 1st point of a university is to educate students. I would like to see you tell the donors that to their face and expect them to ever donate again. Bottom line is he used NDSU for his own financial gain, end of story. Where did you ever get the idea that a university's first job is to educate students? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxFanatic Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Where did you ever get the idea that a university's first job is to educate students? Don't know, but everyone knows that a University's first job is to milk the students for as much money as they can. But wow Bisonville is !@#$ing ridiculous. There mudslinging and blaming anyone they can about Chapman resigning. It is beyond hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 He committed no crime in my book. And it's as simple as this: Chapman would never purposefully do anything to detract from NDSU as a university. Meaning either: 1) someone at the foundation told Chapman to use this money or made it seem as if it was ethical/acceptable/whatever (and now is covering their own a$$ by running to the media) or flat out Chapman didn't take anything that he wasn't supposed to and this money was never budgeted for academic purposes anyway. Either way, he did nothing wrong. And to think, you'd pull Fargo police officers off the street to raid his office for incriminating documents. As if there isn't enough real crime out there to keep them busy. The fact that you and other posters on this board have lunged at Chapman full force like a tiger going after a gazelle, is as comical as it is faux. "Ohhh! The outrage!!!" As if. Just keep in mind that they're coming after UND next. You have your own over-budgeted president's house to deal with. Note that Kelley and Chapman were two good ol' Wyomings boys -- peas from the same pod. Can't wait for all the support for UND's president, though. Your motto should be "Be UND. Be realistic". Hate to tell you but Kelley has nothing to do with UND's housing construction it was Kupchella. So Kelley isn't going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 He committed no crime in my book. And it's as simple as this: Chapman would never purposefully do anything to detract from NDSU as a university. Meaning either: 1) someone at the foundation told Chapman to use this money or made it seem as if it was ethical/acceptable/whatever (and now is covering their own a$$ by running to the media) or flat out Chapman didn't take anything that he wasn't supposed to and this money was never budgeted for academic purposes anyway. Either way, he did nothing wrong. And to think, you'd pull Fargo police officers off the street to raid his office for incriminating documents. As if there isn't enough real crime out there to keep them busy. The fact that you and other posters on this board have lunged at Chapman full force like a tiger going after a gazelle, is as comical as it is faux. "Ohhh! The outrage!!!" As if. Just keep in mind that they're coming after UND next. You have your own over-budgeted president's house to deal with. Note that Kelley and Chapman were two good ol' Wyomings boys -- peas from the same pod. Can't wait for all the support for UND's president, though. Your motto should be "Be UND. Be realistic". Is it possible for Chapman to commit a crime in your book? Whether he did something purposefully or accidentally that detracts from NDSU doesn't affect whether he did something wrong or not. I haven't seen any proof that Chapman or anyone else committed a crime. I'm also not sure that he didn't, the evidence isn't all in yet. There are definitely questionable areas that should be examined, and an audit by the state will accomplish that. Some of the house decisions and taking his kids to Washington DC are 2 examples of items that should be examined. I think that there are other decisions that are legal but were not wise financial decisions. Examples may include private plane and the choice of hotels on the DC trip. Chapman deserved to get some heat for those type decisions, but not lose his job. Of course he made the decision to quit instead of taking the heat. They are definitely going to examine UND for the house issue. Dr. Kelley won't be affected at all by the examination since the house was completed before he started his job. Kupchella and his staff were the decision makers. The decision makers at the UND Foundation may be affected. And what they decide on the landscaping and site preparation issue will determine if UND did anything wrong. If there is evidence that previous projects have not included landscaping and site prep, than UND and NDSU will be off the hook for those portions. That would leave UND over budget by approximately $20,000 and NDSU still over budget by several hundred thousand. If there is no precedence for separating out the outdoor work, then both schools have a large problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I wonder how they are justifying the $1,000 membership to the Washington DC Men's Club that showed up on the credit card - a business expense no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 The Forum reports that the reason to get the President's house done, quickly and well ahead of schedule, by June was the fact that Joe's daughter was getting married and that they wanted the reception at the new house! Are you kidding me??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 And what they decide on the landscaping and site preparation issue will determine if UND did anything wrong. If there is evidence that previous projects have not included landscaping and site prep, than UND and NDSU will be off the hook for those portions. That would leave UND over budget by approximately $20,000 and NDSU still over budget by several hundred thousand. If there is no precedence for separating out the outdoor work, then both schools have a large problem. According to the BisTrib Both well over budget (NDSU was way over) NDSU used ~$517k of University Money UND used over $260k of University Money plus whatever was spend on the home's landscaping, parking, driveway and patio costs, which are not detailed in a summary of expenses presented to the Board of Higher Education but which UND paid for. UND COSTS: The Board of Higher Education also gave the University of North Dakota permission to seek legislative approval to raze the university president's existing home and build a new one, "at a total cost not to exceed $904,000." The University of North Dakota Foundation was to finance the project, using a separate $1 million pledge from Marcil. OVERRUN: The completed home cost $1.26 million to build and furnish, including the late addition of some cabinetry and a security system and $47,682 worth of furniture and appliances. UND paid for the home's landscaping, parking, driveway and patio costs, which are not detailed in a summary of expenses presented to the Board of Higher Education. UND's new president, Robert Kelley, moved in when he started his job in July 2008. NOT ALL DONATIONS: The University of North Dakota financed the home project's deficit of more than $260,000 with almost $112,000 in tuition revenues and about $152,000 in other funds, including interest income and profits from auxiliary services, such as food, book and housing sales, according to the expense summary. NDSU COST CEILING: North Dakota's Board of Higher Education gave its permission for NDSU to seek legislative permission to build a new home for the school's president "at a total cost not to exceed $900,000." The Legislature's Budget Section approved the plan. The board's motion allowed NDSU the option to build a new house or add to the president's existing home. The existing home was razed and a new one built. OVERRUN: The president's house cost $2.04 million to build and furnish, according to figures prepared for the Board of Higher Education. The sum includes site preparation, landscaping, exterior concrete work, parking, lighting, and $155,270 worth of furniture and appliances. It does not include $372,355 in donated materials and services. NOT ALL DONATIONS: NDSU financial reserves, not donated money, were used to cover $516,159 of the cost of building the new president's home, or one-fourth of the total. The money came from university parking fees; profits from selling books, meals and housing; soft-drink commissions; and interest income. http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/local/...1cc4c03286.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 According to the BisTrib Both well over budget (NDSU was way over) NDSU used ~$517k of University Money UND used over $260k of University Money plus whatever was spend on the home's landscaping, parking, driveway and patio costs, which are not detailed in a summary of expenses presented to the Board of Higher Education but which UND paid for. http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/local/...1cc4c03286.html I think that you can pull the costs of furnishings out of the cost overrun for both schools. They were both given permission to furnish the houses above the $900,000 (although I don't know for sure if a limit was set on the cost of furnishings). Both still went over budget, it is a matter of how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonked Out Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Where did you ever get the idea that a university's first job is to educate students? I guess it's from a crazy set of ideals that only I believe in todays' environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I don't really see the big deal here. Not in the slightest. Did he do anything illegal? I would even go so far as to question if it was unethical. Like I said, he was worth every penny and then some. Obvously, Ethics is not a course taught at NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Don't know, but everyone knows that a University's first job is to milk the students for as much money as they can. But wow Bisonville is !@#$ing ridiculous. There mudslinging and blaming anyone they can about Chapman resigning. It is beyond hilarious. I guess it's kinda hard to see the truth when your lips are stuck on Chapman's backside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I wonder how they are justifying the $1,000 membership to the Washington DC Men's Club that showed up on the credit card - a business expense no doubt. Is that a strip club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Is that a strip club? I have no knowledge of that and anyone saying anything different is lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nothing really new, but today's New York Times as a story on this saga. Linky And it's also on Fark's front page ... Fark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I have no knowledge of that and anyone saying anything different is lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Obvously, Ethics is not a course taught at NDSU. You only take ethics if you're pre-blood sucker...whoops I meant pre-law. The law school is up north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 You only take ethics if you're pre-blood sucker...whoops I meant pre-law. The law school is up north. So, you admit you are without ethics, no surprise there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 You only take ethics if you're pre-blood sucker...whoops I meant pre-law. The law school is up north. Actually, UND requires ethics courses of engineering (Phil 370) and health care (Phil 372) majors. I guess that explains much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Tu-Uyen Tran breaks down the numbers, and does a good job explaining the approach each school took. http://www.areavoices.com/gfhcitybeat/?blog=62036 Regarding the cost overruns at NDSU and UND: There is no comparison. UND clearly attempted to keep costs down based on its interpretation of what it felt was within its power to spend. NDSU, or more specifically, its foundation, operated on some pretty unrealistic assumptions, as detailed in the previous post about this. Both NDSU and UND didn't do competitive bids because both rushed their projects. NDSU, however, rushed so much that it caused the usual cost control measures to fail. It also added a bonus room to the project during construction while UND took away to cut costs. As a result, UND got some gold stars this afternoon from the finance committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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