BTHC - Alvarez and OSU want to make it happen?

[star2city]

Plan for Big Ten hockey league iced (for now?)

This was brought up in another thread, but seems it warrants it's own.

A series of high-level discussions took place this summer about the creation of a new men's hockey league featuring the five Big Ten Conference members that sponsor the sport.

A series of conference calls included representatives from the office of Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany as well as athletic department officials from Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State and UW.

Alvarez believes the sport needs to be more regionalized, especially as it relates to programs in the CCHA and WCHA. Both leagues have schools that stretch from the Eastern time zone to Alaska. They also have diverse memberships, with schools whose other athletic programs are classified from NCAA Division I to I-AA to Division III, as well as carrying varied academic requirements.

Ohio State officials are openly supportive of the idea of a Big Ten affiliation. Calls to administrators at Michigan and Michigan State were not returned, but multiple sources around college hockey say they brought open minds to the summer talks

Gopher AD Maturi may have prevented a BTHC:

Whatever momentum the initiative seemed to have gained, though, apparently slowed because Minnesota athletic director Joel Maturi spoke out strongly against it. ...

"There is some disagreement as to whether we should have a Big Ten hockey conference. I, for one, have felt that wouldn't be good for college hockey. Some may not agree with me and I'm respectful of that because we all have differences of opinion."

Alvarez (not Eaves) threatened to move Wisconsin to the CCHA.

Multiple college hockey sources said UW officials responded to the slowing of the talks by making it known they would consider moving to the CCHA. That league will go from 12 members to 11 in 2010-11 when Nebraska-Omaha defects to the WCHA. Omaha will join Bemidji (Minn.) State to make the WCHA a 12-school conference.

UND wouldn't have been included in a BTHC:

According to sources familiar with the Big Ten discussions, multiple scenarios were broached. One would bring Notre Dame, a CCHA member, into the mix to create the six-school lineup required by the NCAA for one of its automatic national tournament berths.

Another plan would incorporate some combination of Bowling Green, Miami (Ohio) and Western Michigan into the arrangement. All three are CCHA members that compete at the Division I level in all sports.

Wisconsin almost certainly had to have been the school that abstained when voting in UNO and BSU.

Did the CCHA reject UAH, thinking they can still grab Wisconsin later?

Or was the CCHA threat by Alvarez just a bluff to get Maturi change his mind on BTCH?

BGSU, Miami, and WMU are all FBS level. Would UND have to move up from FCS to FBS to be considered? WMU and BUGS don't any what anybody can call real arenas, yet they would get consideration?

Big Ten officials are obsessed with athletic classification, and only really want to associated with FBS level schools: not DIII, DII, or FCS.

[Goon]

Wisconsin almost certainly had to have been the school that abstained when voting in UNO and BSU.

I would bet you any money It was Denver.

[Goon]

BGSU, Miami, and WMU are all FBS level. Would UND have to move up from FCS to FBS to be considered? WMU and BGSU don't any what anybody can call real arenas, yet they would get consideration?

Big Ten officials are obsessed with athletic classification, and only really want to associated with FBS level schools: not DIII, DII, or FCS.

I find it funny since BGSU and WMU aren't half as good as UND or Notre Dame in hockey.

[gopherz]

I like the idea of a B10 hockey conference if it means adding Notre Dame to the 5 Big 10 schools. That'd be awesome.

[redwing77]

It's funny because Maturi was dead on.

It would kill college hockey outside of the BTHC.

I think Alvarez is making a push to replace Myles Brand. I mean, with one retard gone, might as well replace him with another retard, right?

Now, a BTHC that actually tried to even out the talent out west might be intriguing.

Something like:

BTHC: Michigan, MSU, Minnesota, Notre Dame, tOSU, Wisconsin, UND, and Miami

WCHA: DU, CC, UAA, UAF, UNO, BSU, MSUM, SCSU

CCHA: BGSU, UAH, WMU, NMU, LSSU, MTU, and UNO

Of course, that's not cool because then we might as well call the BTHC the WCHA, the WCHA can stay the same, and the CCHA the CHA.

[star2city]

I would bet you any money It was Denver.

Can understand DU being upset with less games against UM, UW, and UND. DU could have voted no, not "abstain". Most expansion votes are officially "unanimous" for the sake of posterity and unity, but only after a much more confrontational initial vote. With Alvarez threatening to go to the CCHA, wouldn't he abstain as a matter of course from a WCHA vote that would theoretically have had no bearing on Wisconsin? McLeod and the other AD's would have insisted that Alvarez abstain.

[The Whistler]

Suppose they had a Big Ten hockey conference.

Doesn't that make it harder for the fortunate 4 to all make the NCAA's. I would think that Mich, Mich State, Wisconsin and Minny have all been in the NCAA's the same year numerous times.

Add in another strong school or two and it's going to be hard for them to have a 500 record.

[star2city]

Suppose they had a Big Ten hockey conference.

Doesn't that make it harder for the fortunate 4 to all make the NCAA's. I would think that Mich, Mich State, Wisconsin and Minny have all been in the NCAA's the same year numerous times.

Add in another strong school or two and it's going to be hard for them to have a 500 record.

That's part of the reason why BGSU and WMU are discussed: to put some fat in their schedule. BGSU and WMU would jump at the opportunity: practically guaranteed sellouts even with their losing records.

[The Whistler]

That's part of the reason why BGSU and WMU are discussed: to put some fat in their schedule.

And then what's in it for them to be in there as cannon fodder. As it is the lesser teams in the WCHA, CCHA and Hockey Least have as many or more peers to play as well as strong programs.

[star2city]

And then what's in it for them to be in there as cannon fodder. As it is the lesser teams in the WCHA, CCHA and Hockey Least have as many or more peers to play as well as strong programs.

Sellouts and the prestige of being a BT associate member.

[ScottM]

I'd bet Maturi actually looked at the money the current alignment brings to Minnesota's coffers, and figured it made no fiscal sense to upset the apple cart. Sorry, but duhOhio State and WMU are not going to fill Mariucci like UND, St. Cloud or even UMD usually do.

[Goon]

And then what's in it for them to be in there as cannon fodder. As it is the lesser teams in the WCHA, CCHA and Hockey Least have as many or more peers to play as well as strong programs.

It would give the BTHC their version of UAA or MTU, a bottom Cellar dwellar.

[Snake]

I'd bet Maturi actually looked at the money the current alignment brings to Minnesota's coffers, and figured it made no fiscal sense to upset the apple cart. Sorry, but duhOhio State and WMU are not going to fill Mariucci like UND, St. Cloud or even UMD usually do.

I bet the current luxury of having the conference tourney in their backyard every year was another consideration. I don't think they'd get that every year with a BTHC.

Please note - I'm not complaining about the gophers getting to "host" the final five every year, as I very much enjoy the tourney at the X and feel it's the best venue.

[Goon]

I bet the current luxury of having the conference tourney in their backyard every year was another consideration. I don't think they'd get that every year with a BTHC.

Please note - I'm not complaining about the gophers getting to "host" the final five every year, as I very much enjoy the tourney at the X and feel it's the best venue.

I think you're right. I also think the Xcel Energy Center is an awesome place to watch our teams play. Already planning this seasons trip to the final five.

[The Sicatoka]

Attendance numbers ...

2008-09 Season at Mariucci:

Mich @ Minn (11/28/2008): 10217

MSU @ Minn (11/29/2008): 9985

2006-07 Season at Mariucci:

MSU @ Minn (11/24/2006): 10145

Mich @ Minn (11/25/2006): 10118

UND @ Minn (01/26/2007): 10197

UND @ Minn (01/27/2007): 10208

2007-08 Season at Mariucci:

OSU @ Minn (10/25/2007): 9054

OSU @ Minn (10/26/2007): 9573

UND @ Minn (02/01/2008): 10222

UND @ Minn (02/02/2008): 10197

2008-09 Season at Kohl:

MSU @ UW (11/28/2008): 12695

Mich @ UW (11/29/2008): 14025

UND @ UW (03/06/2009): 14179

UND @ UW (03/07/2009): 15237

2006-07 Season at Kohl:

Mich @ UW (11/24/2006): 13592

MSU @ UW (11/25/2006): 14120

UND @ UW (10/13/2006): 14336

UND @ UW (10/14/2006): 15237

One last note:

OSU hosted Notre Dame, Michigan State, Michigan, and Miami last year.

Not once did they go over 9300 (in a rink that holds 17000+).

They only drew in the low 6000s for Notre Dame.

[star2city]

I'd bet Maturi actually looked at the money the current alignment brings to Minnesota's coffers, and figured it made no fiscal sense to upset the apple cart. Sorry, but duhOhio State and WMU are not going to fill Mariucci like UND, St. Cloud or even UMD usually do.

In the WCHA, Minnesota gets all the attention: FSN, multiple rivals, Exel tournament. In a BTHC, most of their games would be on the Big Ten Network, the tournament would likely move (to Chicago?), and Mariucci would be on the periphery of the conference: nonoe of those favor the Gophers. From the Badger viewpoint, they would gain in almost all aspects with a BTHC.

IMHO, this is a huge story that is still playing out. It's very apparent Alvarez wants out of the WCHA and he's not going anywhere as the AD. For the first time, we know that a BTHC was discussed and that Maturi is the only AD strongly against the concept. If Delaney, other Big Ten AD's and presidents keep pushing, how long can Minnesota hold out?

[jk]

In the WCHA, Minnesota gets all the attention: FSN, multiple rivals, Exel tournament. In a BTHC, most of their games would be on the Big Ten Network, the tournament would likely move (to Chicago?), and Mariucci would be on the periphery of the conference: nonoe of those favor the Gophers. From the Badger viewpoint, they would gain in almost all aspects with a BTHC.

IMHO, this is a huge story that is still playing out. It's very apparent Alvarez wants out of the WCHA and he's not going anywhere as the AD. For the first time, we know that a BTHC was discussed and that Maturi is the only AD strongly against the concept. If Delaney, other Big Ten AD's and presidents keep pushing, how long can Minnesota hold out?

Very insightful post that highlights the various motivations. I agree that the occurence of actual discussions is a potential watershed event, changing this topic from internet speculation to a genuine issue.

[ScottM]

IMHO, this is a huge story that is still playing out. It's very apparent Alvarez wants out of the WCHA and he's not going anywhere as the AD. For the first time, we know that a BTHC was discussed and that Maturi is the only AD strongly against the concept. If Delaney, other Big Ten AD's and presidents keep pushing, how long can Minnesota hold out?

I think those favoring a BTHC fail to grasp that hockey is very much a niche sport that commands the top 1-2 revenue spots at only handful of schools across the country. To try and treat it like FB or bouncyball, and presume there will be no downside in revenue, fan interest, etc. is very short sighted. Notre Dame may have a very good team at times, but it is not a hockey school, and its fanbase is probably pretty shallow in that regard, and I doubt they will be able to fill their tourney seats in suburban Chicago in a few months. Moreover, pushing a BTHC as some salve for the Big Ten network is not going to work well, regardless if they try to contrive rivalries with ND, Bowling Green, etc. There are plenty of other B10 schools that do not have varsity hockey programs, and I doubt they are going to foot the bill to go that direction. Schools like UND, etc. will probably fare well over time, since they would not be confined to such a small conference. But the bigger schools like Minnesota, Michigan, and even dear old Wisconsin, may eventually end up losing more if they move into their own little clubby conference. And as much as we may hate to admit it, Minnesota is generally the star of western hockey in alot of minds.

[siouxweet]

I say if the badgers want to move to the ccha then let them. we don't need them nor anyone else that doesn't want to be part of the wcha.

[the green team]

It just goes to show you, at least in the eyes of big time institutions... The Wisco's, Ohio State's, Mich, Mich St of the world, we're pretty small potatos no matter how strong our program is. At least that is the perception. I look at it this way, if their starting off point really had only one dissenting voice (Maturi @ Minny) then I look for this to be a reality much sooner rather than later. It sounds if Alvarez is looking at it from a fiscal perspective... Travel Costs, TV Money, Attendance, I think it will finally presented in a way that would make sense for Minnesota and they most likely will go- There allegiances with these institutions in regards to the other sports along with the Big 10 Network, will make it a no-brainer for them. It will be a sad day because we will be left in what will be essentially the Northern Sun back when the NCC was so strong. You would much rather be in the NCC. I think the writing is on the wall, I feel that this will be a reality-- this will be the new look in college hockey in 5 to 7 years.

[The Sicatoka]

I'm not sure Wisconsin has thought this through. This really doesn't do much to help their travel. And they'd be losing their biggest "sell" at Kohl Center (UND).

Minnesota would come out of this for the worse. Do they want to trade bus travel to Duluth, SCSU, and MSU-M for air flights to Columbus, Ann Arbor, and East Lansing? And will the teams from Columbus, Ann Arbor, and East Lansing sell as well as Duluth, SCSU, and MSU-M at Mariucci? History says no.

Related to the UND moniker: Will UM or UW play UND in hockey if they aren't all in the WCHA?

And how would this affect womens hockey alignments? Remember: tOSU womens hockey is in the WCHA.

[siouxweet]

It just goes to show you, at least in the eyes of big time institutions... The Wisco's, Ohio State's, Mich, Mich St of the world, we're pretty small potatos no matter how strong our program is. At least that is the perception. I look at it this way, if their starting off point really had only one dissenting voice (Maturi @ Minny) then I look for this to be a reality much sooner rather than later. It sounds if Alvarez is looking at it from a fiscal perspective... Travel Costs, TV Money, Attendance, I think it will finally presented in a way that would make sense for Minnesota and they most likely will go- There allegiances with these institutions in regards to the other sports along with the Big 10 Network, will make it a no-brainer for them. It will be a sad day because we will be left in what will be essentially the Northern Sun back when the NCC was so strong. You would much rather be in the NCC. I think the writing is on the wall, I feel that this will be a reality-- this will be the new look in college hockey in 5 to 7 years.

I'm not sure I would go as far as to compare it to the northern sun. in terms of college hockey you would still have cc,du and UND which are three high profile programs in college hockey. the northern sun doesn't have any high profile teams in any sport.

[stickboy1956]

It just goes to show you, at least in the eyes of big time institutions... The Wisco's, Ohio State's, Mich, Mich St of the world, we're pretty small potatos no matter how strong our program is. At least that is the perception. I look at it this way, if their starting off point really had only one dissenting voice (Maturi @ Minny) then I look for this to be a reality much sooner rather than later. It sounds if Alvarez is looking at it from a fiscal perspective... Travel Costs, TV Money, Attendance, I think it will finally presented in a way that would make sense for Minnesota and they most likely will go- There allegiances with these institutions in regards to the other sports along with the Big 10 Network, will make it a no-brainer for them. It will be a sad day because we will be left in what will be essentially the Northern Sun back when the NCC was so strong. You would much rather be in the NCC. I think the writing is on the wall, I feel that this will be a reality-- this will be the new look in college hockey in 5 to 7 years.

Minnesota will fight this because of money.

They are the only team with a lucrative TV deal, that depends on historical/regional rivals like UND, UMD, SCSU, Denver. That agreement changes significantly with a BT HC.

The conference tournament gate/tv revenues would be altered as well. Even if it is kept in St. Paul, I don't believe the other BTHC schools fans would travel like the WCHA teams do.

[star2city]

I think those favoring a BTHC fail to grasp that hockey is very much a niche sport that commands the top 1-2 revenue spots at only handful of schools across the country. To try and treat it like FB or bouncyball, and presume there will be no downside in revenue, fan interest, etc. is very short sighted. Notre Dame may have a very good team at times, but it is not a hockey school, and its fanbase is probably pretty shallow in that regard, and I doubt they will be able to fill their tourney seats in suburban Chicago in a few months. Moreover, pushing a BTHC as some salve for the Big Ten network is not going to work well, regardless if they try to contrive rivalries with ND, Bowling Green, etc. There are plenty of other B10 schools that do not have varsity hockey programs, and I doubt they are going to foot the bill to go that direction. Schools like UND, etc. will probably fare well over time, since they would not be confined to such a small conference. But the bigger schools like Minnesota, Michigan, and even dear old Wisconsin, may eventually end up losing more if they move into their own little clubby conference. And as much as we may hate to admit it, Minnesota is generally the star of western hockey in alot of minds.

With regards to revenue, a lot depends on how much hockey adds to the cable Big Ten Network. Cable networks are charged for the right show the BTN at like a $1 a month per subscriber. For instance, if hockey is added and the BTN gains 1 million homes as a direct result, that's an additional $12 million flowing anuually to the Big Ten. Cable companies resisted the BTN because of the fee: but they finally gave in to the Big Ten commissioner Delaney. If even 250,000 homes were added to the BTN because of hockey, Delaney would likely want a BTHC.

Delaney is considered one of the most powerful men in sports. If he wants a BTHC (and all indications are that he does), he has the power to alter Maturi's and Minnesota's opinion.

[the green team]

With regards to revenue, a lot depends on how much hockey adds to the cable Big Ten Network. Cable networks are charged for the right show the BTN at like a $1 a month per subscriber. For instance, if hockey is added and the BTN gains 1 million homes as a direct result, that's an additional $12 million flowing anuually to the Big Ten. Cable companies resisted the BTN because of the fee: but they finally gave in to the Big Ten commissioner Delaney. If even 250,000 homes were added to the BTN because of hockey, Delaney would likely want a BTHC.

Delaney is considered one of the most powerful men in sports. If he wants a BTHC (and all indications are that he does), he has the power to alter Maturi's and Minnesota's opinion.

That is it exactly