Not too Late for Sioux?

[GeauxSioux]

VIEWPOINT: N.D. lets nickname settlement fall by wayside

May I suggest that even today, it is not too late for visionary leaders of our local, state, national and tribal governments to come together for the people

[sioux7>5]

VIEWPOINT: N.D. lets nickname settlement fall by waysideNice piece, but I think the writer fails to understand the power the NCAA holds over it's members.

I agree it is a very well written editorial. But, yet must agree with the writer. Why is more not being done to safe the nickname and logo. Why are the tribal leaders not even coming to the table for discussions? Why is the state not doing more? I think these are all very valid questions and should be answered.

[darell1976]

I agree it is a very well written editorial. But, yet must agree with the writer. Why is more not being done to safe the nickname and logo. Why are the tribal leaders not even coming to the table for discussions? Why is the state not doing more? I think these are all very valid questions and should be answered.

Its a lost cause. There won't be a vote of all the natives just a vote of the tribal council and thats what will kill the Sioux nickname. Its done and over, what UND should do now is get some new nickname ideas from alumni, facilty and students. RIP Fighting Sioux.

[The Sicatoka]

I take this time of quiet to be a good thing.

We've had lots and lots of heat; now is the time for light.

Grandstanders (heat) prefer the cameras and press.

Thinkers and solvers (light) prefer to work at a slower, more measured pace.

Use the three year cooling off period to allow everyone, everyone, to think about all of the direct and indirect effects that would come with UND making a change: Really ponder it. Really examine it. Really understand it.

Like a wise man told me long ago: Be careful what you wish for ...

[Goon]

VIEWPOINT: N.D. lets nickname settlement fall by waysideNice piece, but I think the writer fails to understand the power the NCAA holds over it's members.

Funny thing is that could all be solved by the House and senate with the swoop of a pen.

[Northcountry]

Funny thing is that could all be solved by the House and senate with the swoop of a pen.

Is this really how we want elected legislators spending their (our) time? First it smacks of micromanagement , to which I am always opposed and secondly it involves a law-making body aacting in an executive capacity. Exactly how would you have the legislature do this? Or is your opinion an opportunity to make a run at Pomeroy, Dorgan, and Conrad? Keep the government off my back, even if it costs me to do it.

[ScottM]

I agree it is a very well written editorial. But, yet must agree with the writer. Why is more not being done to safe the nickname and logo. Why are the tribal leaders not even coming to the table for discussions? Why is the state not doing more? I think these are all very valid questions and should be answered.

Goetz and Co. are merely going through the motions to appease their masters at the NC$$. The tribal "leaders" are not inclined to even discuss the issue with their own people, let alone the state and UND. As such, you have no real impetus to do a deal, or even negotiate in good faith.

Rather than letting this thing fester for three years, I'd rather retire the name/logo on our own terms now, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Oxbow6]

Goetz and Co. are merely going through the motions to appease their masters at the NC$$. The tribal "leaders" are not inclined to even discuss the issue with their own people, let alone the state and UND. As such, you have no real impetus to do a deal, or even negotiate in good faith.

Rather than letting this thing fester for three years, I'd rather retire the name/logo on our own terms now, and let the chips fall where they may.

Totally agree. Goetz keeps hitting the "easy" button in hopes this just goes away. And NAs, from "leaders" on down, have demonstrated for generations that they can't even stay out of their own way in any attempt to make progress on any issue!

[Chewey]

The three stooges should have something to say on this. After all, Dorgan is the Chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs, right? Even without the Abramoff mess, they'd be completely worthless. They could not keep missiles in GRand Forks during the Clinton years and lost the B1-B's to Ellsworth. How much more worthless are they with a Republican in the White House? As a native ND living in another state, I marvel at how you can't get rid of those three empty suits.

[Oxbow6]

The three stooges should have something to say on this. After all, Dorgan is the Chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs, right? Even without the Abramoff mess, they'd be completely worthless. They could not keep missiles in GRand Forks during the Clinton years and lost the B1-B's to Ellsworth. How much more worthless are they with a Republican in the White House? As a native ND living in another state, I marvel at how you can't get rid of those three empty suits.

Pay me a living wage NOT to plant corn or wheat and I'd vote for those 3 misfits myself! It is a joke though as you implied!

[Bison Dan]

Goetz and Co. are merely going through the motions to appease their masters at the NC$$. The tribal "leaders" are not inclined to even discuss the issue with their own people, let alone the state and UND. As such, you have no real impetus to do a deal, or even negotiate in good faith.

Rather than letting this thing fester for three years, I'd rather retire the name/logo on our own terms now, and let the chips fall where they may.

My question is why is Goetz and company even messing with this. Hell it's a NICKNAME - Let UND handle it, but the dirty little secret is they don't want to want to touch it. UND's powers to be pawned it off to the HBOE so as to be held blameless if they have to change it and then will try to get the state of ND to pay for the change. Does anyone actually think that if Mayville State changed their nickname to the "stars" that the board would even blink and care? The NCAA doesn't care one bit what Goetz and Co. does or doesn't do. You guys are so ready to blame everyone else but the real people that caused this. If UND would have had good relationships with the tribes to start with this would have never come about.

[sioux7>5]

My question is why is Goetz and company even messing with this. Hell it's a NICKNAME - Let UND handle it, but the dirty little secret is they don't want to want to touch it. UND's powers to be pawned it off to the HBOE so as to be held blameless if they have to change it and then will try to get the state of ND to pay for the change. Does anyone actually think that if Mayville State changed their nickname to the "stars" that the board would even blink and care? The NCAA doesn't care one bit what Goetz and Co. does or doesn't do. You guys are so ready to blame everyone else but the real people that caused this. If UND would have had good relationships with the tribes to start with this would have never come about.

What else do you think could have been done, please enlighten the rest of us. I think UND went above and beyond what they should have had to do.

[Oxbow6]

My question is why is Goetz and company even messing with this. Hell it's a NICKNAME - Let UND handle it, but the dirty little secret is they don't want to want to touch it. UND's powers to be pawned it off to the HBOE so as to be held blameless if they have to change it and then will try to get the state of ND to pay for the change. Does anyone actually think that if Mayville State changed their nickname to the "stars" that the board would even blink and care? The NCAA doesn't care one bit what Goetz and Co. does or doesn't do. You guys are so ready to blame everyone else but the real people that caused this. If UND would have had good relationships with the tribes to start with this would have never come about.

And who would that be? Pull your head out of your ass!! I'm sure the student section at NDSU over the years, with their vulgar t-shirts and chants tarnishing and trashing the Fighting Sioux nickname, had nothing to do with the tribes taking the stand they have! UND is not blameless in this mess, but what other university in the NATION has done more to promote NAs within it's programs over the years?

[Goon]

Is this really how we want elected legislators spending their (our) time? First it smacks of micromanagement , to which I am always opposed and secondly it involves a law-making body aacting in an executive capacity. Exactly how would you have the legislature do this? Or is your opinion an opportunity to make a run at Pomeroy, Dorgan, and Conrad? Keep the government off my back, even if it costs me to do it.

They are doing nothing now under the leadership of Reid and Pelosi so they aren't doing anything on your/my time.

[ScottM]

And who would that be? Pull your head out of your ass!! I'm sure the student section at NDSU over the years, with their vulgar t-shirts and chants tarnishing and trashing the Fighting Sioux nickname, had nothing to do with the tribes taking the stand they have! UND is not blameless in this mess, but what other university in the NATION has done more to promote NAs within it's programs over the years?

Precisely. The conduct of other schools' fans was more an issue for the name/logo foes than most of the conduct by UND fans, or the conduct of the school itself. Remember the t-shirts that showed a buffalo f***ing an Indian woman? I doubt they were designed or printed on or near UND's campus.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

...micromanagement...

In this case, it would be micromanagement by a very large organization (the federal government) to correct micromanagement by an organization that is merely large (the NCAA). Personally, I am always suprised to see the number of private action bills passed thru Congress for a particular person's citizenship, marriage, etc. Does it make it right? No, but it also means its not unknown to happen.

An interesting editorial that makes a lot of points already mentioned: namely, words like Sioux, Cherokee and Seminole are a part of the public domain and cannot be owned any more than a word like "French". But a private organization like the NCAA can do as it pleases-unless a powerful Congressman from Louisiana decides that Tulane is being jobbed on a bowl invitation: then hearings are scheduled and the rules of the organization are changed.

[Bison Dan]

And who would that be? Pull your head out of your ass!! I'm sure the student section at NDSU over the years, with their vulgar t-shirts and chants tarnishing and trashing the Fighting Sioux nickname, had nothing to do with the tribes taking the stand they have! UND is not blameless in this mess, but what other university in the NATION has done more to promote NAs within it's programs over the years?

Isn't that sweet - UND fans can name call and say whatever they want but because UND uses an Indian name for it's NICKNAME nothing can be said? Yea it's everyone's elses fault. As far as the promoting NA's - just take the state and federal money away and UND would claim that there isn't any NA's in ND. Face it UND administrations over the years are at fault, like I said before if you would have had good relations with the tribes none of the chants or t-shirts would have mattered. And don't talk to me about student sections and what they say because it's well documented the trouble that UND's students have gotten the university in. Talk about hiding your head in your ASS.

[Oxbow6]

Isn't that sweet - UND fans can name call and say whatever they want but because UND uses an Indian name for it's NICKNAME nothing can be said? Yea it's everyone's elses fault. As far as the promoting NA's - just take the state and federal money away and UND would claim that there isn't any NA's in ND. Face it UND administrations over the years are at fault, like I said before if you would have had good relations with the tribes none of the chants or t-shirts would have mattered. And don't talk to me about student sections and what they say because it's well documented the trouble that UND's students have gotten the university in. Talk about hiding your head in your ASS.

You're a tool!! If you're lucky at best, you're a NDSU grad, but even at that you're too stupid to understand this situation. What university doesn't have their share of "troubled" students. Again I said UND is not without blame in this situation, but as an outsider, you're simplification of this issue shows your ignorance. The tribe's have said first and foremost that the abuse of the nickname/logo is the main reason they want to get rid of it. You think UND is the major abuser of the name and logo? Come with something legit or stay away because you're clueless here.

[siouxjoy]

UND's powers to be pawned it off to the HBOE so as to be held blameless if they have to change it and then will try to get the state of ND to pay for the change.

President Kupchella was in the process of evaluating the future of the nickname when the SBOHE stepped in.

President Kupchella timeline

December: The State Board of Higher Education decides to retain Fighting Sioux name for UND athletic teams.

I know there are better supporting links out there, but I don't have a long enough lunch break to search for them.

Isn't that sweet - UND fans can name call and say whatever they want but because UND uses an Indian name for it's NICKNAME nothing can be said? Yea it's everyone's elses fault. As far as the promoting NA's - just take the state and federal money away and UND would claim that there isn't any NA's in ND. Face it UND administrations over the years are at fault, like I said before if you would have had good relations with the tribes none of the chants or t-shirts would have mattered. And don't talk to me about student sections and what they say because it's well documented the trouble that UND's students have gotten the university in. Talk about hiding your head in your ASS.

I don't even know what that bold sentence even means. Do you really believe the things you type? I know you enjoy being "that guy" on this message board, but seriously...this is a little extreme even for you.

[Bison Dan]

President Kupchella was in the process of evaluating the future of the nickname when the SBOHE stepped in.

President Kupchella timeline

I know there are better supporting links out there, but I don't have a long enough lunch break to search for them.

I don't even know what that bold sentence even means. Do you really believe the things you type? I know you enjoy being "that guy" on this message board, but seriously...this is a little extreme even for you.

It's isn't too hard - If you take the special state and federal monies away the NA programs would also go away. This all boils down to relationships and UND doesn't have a good relationship with the tribes for whatever the reasons are - period.

[DamStrait]

It's isn't too hard - If you take the special state and federal monies away the NA programs would also go away. This all boils down to relationships and UND doesn't have a good relationship with the tribes for whatever the reasons are - period.

Wow - for a UND hating troll, you really have an unique perspective.

[The Sicatoka]

I know this may be news to some, but the ND SBoHE governs all ND campuses. The ND SBoHE took UND's ability to resolve this away by their actions in December 2000. In doing so, they took ownership all the way to and through resolution (including the bills).

UND has fine relationships with most tribal members. The tribal councils are a different story for whatever reasons.

And good luck defunding programs at the Federal level.

[siouxprideforever]

I think it is only fair to remember that the Tribes did not put the current logo issue front and center. I also believe that if polled most Tribal council members would like to see the issue just go away. Unfortunately, when put in front of them it becomes a political issue that they have to respond to in what they perceive as being politically correct. Additionally, I have to believe that Tribal Council members all realize that they have much larger issues to attend to in their own backyards. Objectively speaking, I am afraid that the Tribal council members may subscribe to the mentality that logos such as the Fighting Sioux may not be politically correct, even if they might be prideful of the logo!

[Goon]

And good luck defunding programs at the Federal level.

I agree with Sicatoka this isn't going to happen...

[Bison Dan]

I know this may be news to some, but the ND SBoHE governs all ND campuses. The ND SBoHE took UND's ability to resolve this away by their actions in December 2000. In doing so, they took ownership all the way to and through resolution (including the bills).

UND has fine relationships with most tribal members. The tribal councils are a different story for whatever reasons.

And good luck defunding programs at the Federal level.

"The ND SBoHE took UND's ability to resolve this away by their actions" My question is why? I doubt the SBoHE stepped in without being invited in by UND. UND didn't want to face this no win situation and wanted a fall guy (ND SBoHE). But whatever, it is what it is. The whole thing is stupid anyway. PC run amuck.