Future Schedules

[ShilohSioux]

For an eligible DI FCS team its all about trying to make the playoffs. Ask Montana about their 2010 scheduling . . . they ended up 7-4, just like NDSU, but NDSU went to the playoffs instead of Montana. Why? One of Montana's wins was against a DII.

The way Montana played this year there's absolutely no guarantee Montana would have beat a FCS team. They could have been 6-5 if they had. They lost to Weber and Cal Poly, and won three of their league games by a combined 8 points. Besides, as it was pointed out here, NDSU had to pay Wagoner 125K to come to Fargo. Montana is in a very difficult financial position at the moment (the reason why they're going to Tennessee next year). They don't have that kind of money to bring in another FCS team.

If you can avoid playing down, avoid it.

There you go. That's the issue here. A lot of places can't avoid it and fill out an 11-game schedule and pay the bills.

For an eligible DI FCS team its all about trying to make the playoffs. Ask Montana about their 2010 scheduling . . . they ended up 7-4, just like NDSU, but NDSU went to the playoffs instead of Montana. Why? One of Montana's wins was against a DII. If you play a DII, your margin for error in earning 7 DI wins is razor thin. If you can avoid playing down, avoid it. Better off trying to bring in a MEAC, Northeast Conf, Pioneer, etc, etc, than playing a DII. Ya, NDSU or UND could play SCSU, but it wouldn't make any playoff sense. You might be able to pay a smaller guarantee, but why even do it if it could cost you a playoff opportunity.

And FBS vs. FCS, they count for both. (For FBS, 1 FCS game/year counts) Montana's been the exception to playing FBS teams, but are finnally stepping back up again next year. They would be wise to schedule some possibly winnable FBS games though.

If it cost NDSU 125K to bring in one of these teams, why/how would we do that? Again, there are financial issues that trump the seven-win issue, unfortunate but that's the way of the world right now.

[82SiouxGuy]

I wish I could live in a world where money didn't matter. I bet that UND and a bunch of other schools do too. Unfortunately, it matters a lot. Schools get into trouble if their athletic departments go deeply in the hole. So most of them try to watch the bottom line and balance that with performance. I can live with a weak home game every couple of years to make some money, or even every year if that's what they need to do. I'm just glad that the days of 5 weak home games should be done soon.

As far as this proving the point that NDSU has about not wanting to play a game against UND every year, it may or may not. NDSU could sell the tickets for a UND game at a premium price. They have about 17,000 tickets to sell that are non-students. Just adding $10 per ticket gives them $170,000 of extra revenue with absolutely no extra cost. And they don't have to pay a guarantee of $125,000, for each of 2 games. Plus they would increase season ticket sales because people would want to guarantee having seats. This added revenue could potentially give them enough extra profit on one game to approach what they would make on 2 games against someone like Wagner. But it could also give them much larger revenue one year and less the next. I don't have the actual numbers to be able to determine if it would equal or not, but my guess is it could be in the same ballpark. The problem is that they may not be able to have 6 home games every year for their fanbase. But it would just about eliminate the cupcake factor for both schools.

[darell1976]

For an eligible DI FCS team its all about trying to make the playoffs. Ask Montana about their 2010 scheduling . . . they ended up 7-4, just like NDSU, but NDSU went to the playoffs instead of Montana. Why? One of Montana's wins was against a DII. If you play a DII, your margin for error in earning 7 DI wins is razor thin. If you can avoid playing down, avoid it. Better off trying to bring in a MEAC, Northeast Conf, Pioneer, etc, etc, than playing a DII. Ya, NDSU or UND could play SCSU, but it wouldn't make any playoff sense. You might be able to pay a smaller guarantee, but why even do it if it could cost you a playoff opportunity.

And FBS vs. FCS, they count for both. (For FBS, 1 FCS game/year counts) Montana's been the exception to playing FBS teams, but are finnally stepping back up again next year. They would be wise to schedule some possibly winnable FBS games though.

This is my point as well. Take this scenario UND is 7-3 with 1 of those wins against SCSU...then we lose the last game of the season oh guess what NO PLAYOFFS because we would have 6 D1 wins. Now as a Sioux fan I would be mad as hell at the AD for scheduling a D2 team when this scenario could happen and take us out of a playoff hunt. Its stupid. With USD, SDSU, and NDSU in our own tri-state we could hope to gain just 1 FCS team out of those 3.

[mksioux]

Maybe we'd have better luck scheduling these teams if we didn't refer to them as "cupcakes." Would you want to come to Grand Forks if that's the respect your opponent had for you?

It's a term of art for ease of reference. I actually don't think St. Cloud will be a cupcake, especially if UND doesn't get significantly better soon. But the point is that, come 2012, if we are going to schedule a team with less than 63 scholarships, I'd much rather it be an FCS team so a win actually means something. If we can't get one of those at a price Faison considers affordable, then don't have a reduced scholarship game. And another thing that really bugs me about scheduling St. Cloud (if the rumor is true) is how early it was scheduled. I can see if if we were absolutely desperate for a home game and St. Cloud was the only option available, but we are far from desperation for 2012 scheduling. Another thing that makes no sense is why UND would schedule multiple games with St. Cloud. That is just mind-boggling to me. St. Cloud State on the schedule, if it is scheduled at all, should be a last resort, no-other-options type of game.

[Ole in MSP]

It's a term of art for ease of reference. I actually don't think St. Cloud will be a cupcake, especially if UND doesn't get significantly better soon. But the point is that, come 2012, if we are going to schedule a team with less than 63 scholarships, I'd much rather it be an FCS team so a win actually means something. If we can't get one of those at a price Faison considers affordable, then don't have a reduced scholarship game. And another thing that really bugs me about scheduling St. Cloud (if the rumor is true) is how early it was scheduled. I can see if if we were absolutely desperate for a home game and St. Cloud was the only option available, but we are far from desperation for 2012 scheduling. Another thing that makes no sense is why UND would schedule multiple games with St. Cloud. That is just mind-boggling to me. St. Cloud State on the schedule, if it is scheduled at all, should be a last resort, no-other-options type of game.

I think that SCSU has upgraded their program and as such rivaled UMD this year, but I believe their fan support/interest is far less than UMD's following. If finances/attendance is such big issue, the Bulldogs followers would be a more attractive visiting team than SCSU. I can tolerate playing down one game a year. More than that and we are just masquerading as a DI football program once we are playoff eligible.

[star2city]

A bit of outside the box thinking on why UND is scheduling SCSU

[Ole in MSP]

Reply to SCSU to the BSC.

Based on the large egos at the U of Minnesota; when Mankato State tried to get renamed the "University of Southern Minnesota" I think a move to D1 for SCSU would be a very difficult ordeal. The U of M thinks it is the only product in the state worthy of that status. It would be a tough sell for the school considering the financial status of the state and the Gopher fans egos to have a "state" school get that recognition.

[Yote 53]

We've been thinking about scheduling down here as well. I have an idea that could help both schools and allow us to maintain our rivalry. It looks like in the future both our schools will have 8 conference games, 4 home/4 away, and one FBS money game. That leaves 2 games a year to schedule. Why not schedule USD to a home/home series indefinitely then set up home and home FCS games with other OOC schools (NDSU, ahem, or other MVFC schools) with the home game falling on the years you travel to Verm. USD would do the same thing with our home/home series with BSC or Southland schools alternating the years for when we travel to GF.

Sure, it would result in only 5 home games per year, but that is the reality of things when FCS schools have to play that FBS game. 5 home/5 away FCS games per year with one FBS game. The best way for all of us Dakota schools to deal with this reality is to at least schedule our OOC games against rival schools within driving distance. It would be even better for UND if you could get the annual game with NDSU back. You could play 8 BSC games, and alternate NDSU at home, USD away, then the next year USD at home, and NDSU away, plus an annual FBS game. Talk about making scheduling easy, the only game to schedule each year would be the FBS game. In years where 13 games are allowed a 6th home game could be added by buying an FCS non schollie or D2 game.

Bottom line is scheduling would get a whole lot easier for both our schools if we could just agree on continuing the UND/USD series.

[RD17]

The NSIC plays a 10-game conference schedule. The ONLY open date SCSU could possibly have would be week one, which is when UND has Drake scheduled. This game will not be happening, at least not in 2011.

[GeauxSioux]

The NSIC plays a 10-game conference schedule. The ONLY open date SCSU could possibly have would be week one, which is when UND has Drake scheduled. This game will not be happening, at least not in 2011.

I have to agree. The guy who posted on D2 said that SCSU was playing UND on Oct. 15, which would be right in the middle of their conference season. There is no link to support it and no even stepped forward to say, "yeah, I heard the same thing". Looking back at SCSU's schedule the past three years, all of their OOC games are early in the season, not in the middle.

I am anxious for the Sioux to start a Big Sky schedule and get some foundation regarding scheduling.

[ShilohSioux]

We've been thinking about scheduling down here as well. I have an idea that could help both schools and allow us to maintain our rivalry. It looks like in the future both our schools will have 8 conference games, 4 home/4 away, and one FBS money game. That leaves 2 games a year to schedule. Why not schedule USD to a home/home series indefinitely then set up home and home FCS games with other OOC schools (NDSU, ahem, or other MVFC schools) with the home game falling on the years you travel to Verm. USD would do the same thing with our home/home series with BSC or Southland schools alternating the years for when we travel to GF.

Sure, it would result in only 5 home games per year, but that is the reality of things when FCS schools have to play that FBS game. 5 home/5 away FCS games per year with one FBS game. The best way for all of us Dakota schools to deal with this reality is to at least schedule our OOC games against rival schools within driving distance. It would be even better for UND if you could get the annual game with NDSU back. You could play 8 BSC games, and alternate NDSU at home, USD away, then the next year USD at home, and NDSU away, plus an annual FBS game. Talk about making scheduling easy, the only game to schedule each year would be the FBS game. In years where 13 games are allowed a 6th home game could be added by buying an FCS non schollie or D2 game.

Bottom line is scheduling would get a whole lot easier for both our schools if we could just agree on continuing the UND/USD series.

Makes a lot of sense from many standpoints -- historic rivalry, peer institutions, D-I game, good crowds, similar stages in move-up process, etc.... I would love to play the Yotes every year and the games would draw good crowds at both places.

[mksioux]

We've been thinking about scheduling down here as well. I have an idea that could help both schools and allow us to maintain our rivalry. It looks like in the future both our schools will have 8 conference games, 4 home/4 away, and one FBS money game. That leaves 2 games a year to schedule. Why not schedule USD to a home/home series indefinitely then set up home and home FCS games with other OOC schools (NDSU, ahem, or other MVFC schools) with the home game falling on the years you travel to Verm. USD would do the same thing with our home/home series with BSC or Southland schools alternating the years for when we travel to GF.

Sure, it would result in only 5 home games per year, but that is the reality of things when FCS schools have to play that FBS game. 5 home/5 away FCS games per year with one FBS game. The best way for all of us Dakota schools to deal with this reality is to at least schedule our OOC games against rival schools within driving distance. It would be even better for UND if you could get the annual game with NDSU back. You could play 8 BSC games, and alternate NDSU at home, USD away, then the next year USD at home, and NDSU away, plus an annual FBS game. Talk about making scheduling easy, the only game to schedule each year would be the FBS game. In years where 13 games are allowed a 6th home game could be added by buying an FCS non schollie or D2 game.

Bottom line is scheduling would get a whole lot easier for both our schools if we could just agree on continuing the UND/USD series.

I agree an annual OOC series with USD makes a lot of sense (maybe not as much sense as an annual game with NDSU, but obviously they will not agree to it).

If UND set up an annual game with USD, it would leave only one FCS game per year for Faison to have to worry about. Between SDSU, NDSU, UNI, and Drake, one would think it would be pretty easy to pick up that last game.

[Cratter]

This is my point as well. Take this scenario UND is 7-3 with 1 of those wins against SCSU...then we lose the last game of the season oh guess what NO PLAYOFFS because we would have 6 D1 wins. Now as a Sioux fan I would be mad as hell at the AD for scheduling a D2 team when this scenario could happen and take us out of a playoff hunt. Its stupid. With USD, SDSU, and NDSU in our own tri-state we could hope to gain just 1 FCS team out of those 3.

Yeah but one of those three loses is likely to a FBS program, so you should also be mad as hell at the AD for scheduling that game too!!

[Cratter]

When does SDSU come to Grand Forks to repay us for this year?

[fightingsioux4life]

If it's not "feasible" to run this program like a DI FCS program, then we shouldn't have moved up in the first place. If balancing the budget is all that matters, then Tom Buning should have gotten a lifetime contract extension.

Yes, it's expensive to get FCS teams to come to Grand Forks. Everyone knew that when we moved up and now some people around here think we should keep running this program like a D-2 school to help keep costs down. Well, that's just unacceptable for the flagship of the NDUS. If we want our athletics at the Division I level, then we have to start running the whole athletic department like a Division I program, not a D-2 program with a D-I label. One D-2 game each year and one FBS money game a year would be acceptable. But once we join the BSC in 2012, all of these NAIA programs had better get taken off the schedule for good.

[Ole in MSP]

If it's not "feasible" to run this program like a DI FCS program, then we shouldn't have moved up in the first place. If balancing the budget is all that matters, then Tom Buning should have gotten a lifetime contract extension.

Yes, it's expensive to get FCS teams to come to Grand Forks. Everyone knew that when we moved up and now some people around here think we should keep running this program like a D-2 school to help keep costs down. Well, that's just unacceptable for the flagship of the NDUS. If we want our athletics at the Division I level, then we have to start running the whole athletic department like a Division I program, not a D-2 program with a D-I label. One D-2 game each year and one FBS money game a year would be acceptable. But once we join the BSC in 2012, all of these NAIA programs had better get taken off the schedule for good.

Amen! And ..... no one should think that playing SCSU would generate any money or interest from the MSP area. In the 40 years I have lived here the only schools that get any press other than the Gophers are the MIAC teams and then virtually exclusively St Johns and St Thomas. UMD, SCSU and Mankato are virtually ignored except for hockey. As far as SCSU going DI it will never happen. U of M would never tolerate another DI school in the area, much less the state. See Mankato's attempt to become the U of Southern Minnesota a number of years ago, stonewalled politically. And with the state in a financial bind, not going to happen.

[82SiouxGuy]

If it's not "feasible" to run this program like a DI FCS program, then we shouldn't have moved up in the first place. If balancing the budget is all that matters, then Tom Buning should have gotten a lifetime contract extension.

Yes, it's expensive to get FCS teams to come to Grand Forks. Everyone knew that when we moved up and now some people around here think we should keep running this program like a D-2 school to help keep costs down. Well, that's just unacceptable for the flagship of the NDUS. If we want our athletics at the Division I level, then we have to start running the whole athletic department like a Division I program, not a D-2 program with a D-I label. One D-2 game each year and one FBS money game a year would be acceptable. But once we join the BSC in 2012, all of these NAIA programs had better get taken off the schedule for good.

When did anyone say it wasn't "feasible" to run this like a FCS program? Almost every FCS program has issues with their budget. Have you watched Montana over the past decade? That is why so many play FBS guarantee games, and why a lot bring in low guarantee teams for at least 1 home game, either non-scholarship DI teams, DII or even NAIA teams. That is what we are talking about, having 8 Big Sky games, a FBS game, a cupcake at home, and 1 more game. That game will change from year to year, unless UND gets an annual contract with either USD or NDSU. That game could be home and home with a quality FCS. It could be a second FBS sometimes, it might be a second cupcake some years. That is what happens in FCS football. I find it interesting that people are getting upset about 2012 and future schedules when we have no idea what the conference schedule is going to look like.

[mksioux]

If it's not "feasible" to run this program like a DI FCS program, then we shouldn't have moved up in the first place. If balancing the budget is all that matters, then Tom Buning should have gotten a lifetime contract extension.

Yes, it's expensive to get FCS teams to come to Grand Forks. Everyone knew that when we moved up and now some people around here think we should keep running this program like a D-2 school to help keep costs down. Well, that's just unacceptable for the flagship of the NDUS. If we want our athletics at the Division I level, then we have to start running the whole athletic department like a Division I program, not a D-2 program with a D-I label. One D-2 game each year and one FBS money game a year would be acceptable. But once we join the BSC in 2012, all of these NAIA programs had better get taken off the schedule for good.

I agree with your sentiments, but not your conclusion. I think a DII team should be scheduled only as a last resort. I know a lot of people liked to make fun of NDSU scheduling low-scholarship or non-scholarship FCS schools to their schedule, but that's the right way to do it if you want to have an "easy" game on your schedule. Schedule a Wagner or a Valpo if you're looking for an easy win. Scheduling a DII school does nothing to advance UND's chances of making it to the playoffs. Wanting to play FCS teams is not just about labels or being "macho" as some have suggested. Playing FCS teams is rewarded come playoff selection time, playing DII schools is not. I realize it's probably more expensive to bring in a Wagner or a Valpo than a St. Cloud or a Sioux Falls, but saving a few bucks to bring in a DII schools is short sighted. UND consistently in the playoff hunt is the best way long term way to make sure the program is financially sound, and the best way to do that is to play as many FCS schools as possible. I think there should be 10 FCS teams on the schedule every year. Then with the 11th, you go with the FBS game. Maybe a DII team is acceptable on years where you get a 12th game, but that's it. This is not mission impossible. All we're talking about is two non-conference FCS games to schedule per year. Schedule an annual game with USD, and then we're talking about only one game per year. With that one game per year, schedule a guaranty game with a low- or non-scholarship FCS team, or schedule home-and-homes with NDSU, SDSU, or UNI. If Faison can't get that done, then I don't know what to say.

Hopefully this St. Cloud rumor has no truth to it and we're getting worked about nothing.

[Matt]

What rubs some fans like me the wrong way about scheduling a a weak FCS school vs an NAIA or a D2 is that NDSU is finding a way to just freaking get it done. It's expensive? Get it done. It's hard to find someone to play? Get it done. Spare me the excuses and JUST GET IT DONE. Coach used to put it the same way. Missed a tackle? He was holding you? JUST GET IT DONE. I will abide the difficulties in transition, but not after. After that, either the athletic department makes enough from the gate of the home conference games, or you fundraise more money, or whatever needs to be done, JUST GET IT DONE. Yes, it's a cold attitude, but athletics is a bottom line business. You step up, make a play, and GET IT DONE! Hold the front office to the same standard we hold the athletes.

[nodakvindy]

I think 10 FCS games is the key. That 11th game can either be a D2 home game or a FBS game. We need to be doing a better job with FBS games. It's foolish to try and schedule these with any intent of winning and counting toward the playoffs. I'd much rather play a BCS powerhouse for a huge paycheck every couple of years, then use that money to get more home games in other seasons. Plus, a game versus an Alabama, Penn State or Nebraska actually has the environment of a major college football game. I just don't think that's the case for a Northern Illinois, Idaho or Fresno State. Montana does this perfectly - occasional FBS games against big time opponents. Getting home games and rebuilding the following is critical, games against MAC or WAC teams for middling paydays is worthless.

[gfhockey]

Also have to think of it this way

11 game schedule

1 fbs

if we have 1 d2 one naia

leaves 9 fcs

means we would have to go at minimum 7-2 against fcs

cause they dont count a d2 win rite when determining playoffs

and most times a 7-4 record should get u in the tourney.. some times it doesnt however

we would need to have a 8-3 total record

however if we lose the d2 game hurts us immensley and we would be 7-4 if we won 7 fcs games we would be out of the playoffs cuz of the loss to the d2 team

and they way mussman has his teams playing, i dont even know why im talking playoffs lol but just to put it in perspective.

[Hansel]

however if we lose the d2 game hurts us immensley and we would be 7-4 if we won 7 fcs games we would be out of the playoffs cuz of the loss to the d2 team

and they way mussman has his teams playing, i dont even know why im talking playoffs lol but just to put it in perspective.

I beleive Montana State made it as an at-large with a 7-4 record a few years back with a DII loss. They did beat Colorado that year though.

[mksioux]

I think 10 FCS games is the key. That 11th game can either be a D2 home game or a FBS game. We need to be doing a better job with FBS games. It's foolish to try and schedule these with any intent of winning and counting toward the playoffs. I'd much rather play a BCS powerhouse for a huge paycheck every couple of years, then use that money to get more home games in other seasons. Plus, a game versus an Alabama, Penn State or Nebraska actually has the environment of a major college football game. I just don't think that's the case for a Northern Illinois, Idaho or Fresno State. Montana does this perfectly - occasional FBS games against big time opponents. Getting home games and rebuilding the following is critical, games against MAC or WAC teams for middling paydays is worthless.

My point in saying never schedule a DII team assumes that an FBS game every year is a given. If UND gets to the point where it can skip an FBS game once in a while, then I suppose a DII team home game would be acceptable those years (like Montana does). But the big difference between Montana and UND is that Montana consistently sells 25,000 tickets to its home games, where UND averages around 8,000, with a 12,000 cap. Montana can replace the FBS guaranty game with an extra home game some years and still do okay financially. I'm not sure UND will be able to get away with that. So I think UND will probably have an FBS game on the schedule every year. I agree with you that the FBS game might as well be against BCS schools for a larger pay day.

But you're right, either way, 10 FCS games is the key. That way, you can go 7-3 in those games and still make the playoffs. If you play an FBS game (likely loss) and a DII (non-counter) in the same 11-game season, you only have 9 FCS games and will have to go 7-2 in those games. Not impossible, but you're needlessly leaving yourself less room for error.

[UND92,96]

We've been thinking about scheduling down here as well. I have an idea that could help both schools and allow us to maintain our rivalry. It looks like in the future both our schools will have 8 conference games, 4 home/4 away, and one FBS money game. That leaves 2 games a year to schedule. Why not schedule USD to a home/home series indefinitely then set up home and home FCS games with other OOC schools (NDSU, ahem, or other MVFC schools) with the home game falling on the years you travel to Verm. USD would do the same thing with our home/home series with BSC or Southland schools alternating the years for when we travel to GF.

Sure, it would result in only 5 home games per year, but that is the reality of things when FCS schools have to play that FBS game. 5 home/5 away FCS games per year with one FBS game. The best way for all of us Dakota schools to deal with this reality is to at least schedule our OOC games against rival schools within driving distance. It would be even better for UND if you could get the annual game with NDSU back. You could play 8 BSC games, and alternate NDSU at home, USD away, then the next year USD at home, and NDSU away, plus an annual FBS game. Talk about making scheduling easy, the only game to schedule each year would be the FBS game. In years where 13 games are allowed a 6th home game could be added by buying an FCS non schollie or D2 game.

Bottom line is scheduling would get a whole lot easier for both our schools if we could just agree on continuing the UND/USD series.

Completely agree. As we've seen, it's probably much more difficult to restart a series once it's been put on hold than it is to simply keep it going in the first place. I will be very disappointed if USD isn't still on our schedule in 2012 and beyond.

[mksioux]

When does SDSU come to Grand Forks to repay us for this year?

According to this press release, September 7, 2013.