skateshattrick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 My question to all of you is this. What are your thoughts on Jason Gregoire? Gregoire committed to Denver before backing out on his word and committing to North Dakota. At least Clarke is playing in a league that will never play North Dakota. Gregoire will play the team he committed to 4 times a season. (minimum) I think it's extremely hypocritical that you guys are getting on this kids case but you give Gregoire a free pass. I have not weighed in on this issue to this point because I do not disagree with you, BUT you make it sound like all Sioux fans on this board are criticizing the decision. That is simply not true. More importantly, you are talking apples and oranges. I have no problem if a 15 year old kid changes his mind. However, I am not naive enough to believe that a 15 year old made this decision. This looks and smells like it was orchestrated by his father so that the kid could get drafted by the major junior team of choice. If that is truly what happened, I have a problem with that because it reeks of manipulation, if not dishonesty, on the part of his father. I could care less if a 15 year old changes his mind. It is quite another to leverage the position of your son by resorting to less than ethical tactics. The situation with Gregoire is not unlike decisions made by Chris Chelios (who committed to UND) and Keith Ballard who purportedly verballed to UND. There are many, many examples of kids changing their minds after giving a verbal or even a written LOI. I really do not have a problem with a kid changing his mind as long as that decision was not influenced by the poaching of an opposing coach or alum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Good job grouping all Sioux fans together. I don't hold a grudge against Clarke. It's his decision. I'm actually glad that he made his decision now, two full seasons before he was supposed to take the ice for the Sioux. That gives Hakstol plenty of time to find a dman for that vacated spot. While I would have loved to see him in a Sioux uni, the UND hockey program will go on...with or without him. I have the same thoughts about Gregoire. It was his decision. I'm sure that some DU fans were upset by his change of plans, just as some Sioux fans are upset about Clarke. But those feelings will pass, and other recruits will take their places. That said, I will enjoy seeing Gregoire in a Sioux uniform much more than I would have seeing him in a DU uni. Sorry for grouping all Sioux fans together. The rest of your post is 100% how I feel about the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Good job grouping all Sioux fans together. I don't hold a grudge against Clarke. It's his decision. I'm actually glad that he made his decision now, two full seasons before he was supposed to take the ice for the Sioux. That gives Hakstol plenty of time to find a dman for that vacated spot. While I would have loved to see him in a Sioux uni, the UND hockey program will go on...with or without him. I have the same thoughts about Gregoire. It was his decision. I'm sure that some DU fans were upset by his change of plans, just as some Sioux fans are upset about Clarke. But those feelings will pass, and other recruits will take their places. That said, I will enjoy seeing Gregoire in a Sioux uniform much more than I would have seeing him in a DU uni. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I have not weighed in on this issue to this point because I do not disagree with you, BUT you make it sound like all Sioux fans on this board are criticizing the decision. That is simply not true. More importantly, you are talking apples and oranges. I have no problem if a 15 year old kid changes his mind. However, I am not naive enough to believe that a 15 year old made this decision. This looks and smells like it was orchestrated by his father so that the kid could get drafted by the major junior team of choice. If that is truly what happened, I have a problem with that because it reeks of manipulation, if not dishonesty, on the part of his father. I could care less if a 15 year old changes his mind. It is quite another to leverage the position of your son by resorting to less than ethical tactics. The situation with Gregoire is not unlike decisions made by Chris Chelios (who committed to UND) and Keith Ballard who purportedly verballed to UND. There are many, many examples of kids changing their minds after giving a verbal or even a written LOI. I really do not have a problem with a kid changing his mind as long as that decision was not influenced by the poaching of an opposing coach or alum. This is exactly the problem I have with this. I don't begrudge a kid that has a change of heart. But this has all the appearance of an orchestrated plan to get drafted by the team he wanted to play for. Dad/son were using UND to get what they wanted from the QMJHL. Big difference to me than Gregoire deciding to change schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 This is exactly the problem I have with this. I don't begrudge a kid that has a change of heart. But this has all the appearance of an orchestrated plan to get drafted by the team he wanted to play for. Dad/son were using UND to get what they wanted from the QMJHL. Big difference to me than Gregoire deciding to change schools. I don't think it was that big of a loss because UND will get more GREAT defenseman to come play for the Sioux. My father says you can't get them all. It is kind of like the Badgers and Gagner screwing around with Wisconsin. I could be wrong and it won't be the last time. I personally think this is a character issue and that he was using UND maybe it is better that he didn't come here. I am not holding a grudge against him and could care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxweet Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I don't think it was that big of a loss either, from what others have said he very well could have been a one and done player. defenseman usually take a good 2-3 years to develop to make a big impact on a team. just ask the gophers about ej. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patatoe Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think cases like this are one of the problems that the "gentleman's agreement" in recruiting creates. In my opinion, If the big name schools wouldn't make offers so soon 1) the highest quality kids (who want to go the NCAA route) would still wait for offers from the big schools and 2) it would take away a lot of the leverage players like this would have in the MJ drafts. What would scare MJ teams more? Commitments to UND, Minnesota, Michigan, BC, etc or a commitment to Mercyhurst or Robert Morris. I'll admit I don't know a lot about MJ but I would be doubtful of college hockey "stealing" a lot of kids from MJ and visa versa. If the want to go a certain route that's the way they are going to go. In theory, I like the gentleman's agreement but may be it create a case of "Be careful what you wish for" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I don't think it was that big of a loss either, from what others have said he very well could have been a one and done player. defenseman usually take a good 2-3 years to develop to make a big impact on a team. just ask the gophers about ej. Ask the gophers about EJ. I bet they will tell you they would have KILLED to have EJ last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Ask the gophers about EJ. I bet they will tell you they would have KILLED to have EJ last season. Killed is too kind. There were some upset folks who thought he'd play in the AHL. Sillyness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I find this real hard to believe because I know alot of players who have played in the WHL. They have had their room and board paid and have received maybe $75.-$100 every 2 weeks but when they leave the Whl they get their tuition paid for every year they played hockey. So if they played for 3 years they get 3 years of tuition and books paid for at a Canadian University I seem to remember Crosby's team buying a 3 or 5 million dollar annnuity in case he was injured and unable due to injury to move onto the NHL. this is in addition to th insurance policies that players may take out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 My question to all of you is this. What are your thoughts on Jason Gregoire? Gregoire committed to Denver before backing out on his word and committing to North Dakota. At least Clarke is playing in a league that will never play North Dakota. Gregoire will play the team he committed to 4 times a season. (minimum) I think it's extremely hypocritical that you guys (who are ripping on Clarke) are getting on this kids case but you give Gregoire a free pass. Apples and Oranges here. Gregiore committed to go to DU in 2007 and had indicated that he preferred UND, but UND had given him a 2008 date to start. when DU changed their mind and told him they would like him to come in 2008 he changed his mind. That said I have little problem with a 15 year old kid and his family trying to do what they think is best for them whether it turns out to be the best decision or not. I think the fact that Blais has been outspoken on the issue with Jason Herter(Clarke's coach last season) on his staff speaks volumes to what jason and Dean think of his decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Apples and Oranges here. Gregiore committed to go to DU in 2007 and had indicated that he preferred UND, but UND had given him a 2008 date to start. when DU changed their mind and told him they would like him to come in 2008 he changed his mind. That said I have little problem with a 15 year old kid and his family trying to do what they think is best for them whether it turns out to be the best decision or not. I think the fact that Blais has been outspoken on the issue with Jason Herter(Clarke's coach last season) on his staff speaks volumes to what jason and Dean think of his decision. I disagree that it's apples to oranges. It's more like a green apple and a red apple. They both committed to a program and they both backed out of their oral agreements. You can spin it however you want to but it's the truth. They both backed out of commitments to a certain team. I've stated that I don't think either one of them is that big of a deal, I just don't like the hypocrites on this board sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloos Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I seem to remember Crosby's team buying a 3 or 5 million dollar annnuity in case he was injured and unable due to injury to move onto the NHL. this is in addition to th insurance policies that players may take out. This is likely very true, but Sidney Crosby is 20 year exception. A player of his caliber does not come around very often. He came to the QMJHL as a 100% sure thing. There was no doubt he was going to be the #1 NHL draft and that he would have a significant impact in the NHL. The same cannot be said for Clarke, Turris or anyone else mentioned. I spoke to an aquaintance who is involved in the MJHL and he said as far as he knows the QMJHL, OHL and WHL all have caps on what players can receive. He said Rimouski paid Crosby a % of the gate to get around this (I have heard $1/ticket). The CHL (or QMJHL) has since allegedly closed this loophole. He also said he has never heard of a player getting paid hundreds of thousands to play junior hockey. He said the stipend varies but it is pretty typical for a player to get his room and board plus a year of college for each year he plays (like another poster said). On top of that each player gets a monthly "allowance" that does vary, but is not very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I disagree that it's apples to oranges. It's more like a green apple and a red apple. They both committed to a program and they both backed out of their oral agreements. You can spin it however you want to but it's the truth. They both backed out of commitments to a certain team. I've stated that I don't think either one of them is that big of a deal, I just don't like the hypocrites on this board sometimes. I don't think any, or at least most, here have been ripping the kid, but rather, have been ripping the apparent manipulation by the father. When I ripped the kid early in another thread it was mostly knee-jerk, and was more since I thought the father was living throuugh the kid, and by a fan ripping the kid I was getting back at the father. It's over, the kids only 15, and we've moved on. No further discussion from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 ...I just don't like the hypocrites on this board sometimes.Gee, Chuck, don't be so hard on yourself. With both Beaverson and Gregoire it appears that one party did not make good on the bargain, so the second party declined to keep it in force as originally configured. As the story goes, Beaverson did not do what he need to progress and despite this Blais offered to let him get back to work with another year in juniors before coming to UND. Beaverson didn't want that so he chose to go elsewhere. Gregoire was offered a year earlier vs. UND and when DU changed the deal, Gregoire went elsewhere. Kind of a two-way street - which certainly was not the case with Clarke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Gee, Chuck, don't be so hard on yourself. With both Beaverson and Gregoire it appears that one party did not make good on the bargain, so the second party declined to keep it in force as originally configured. As the story goes, Beaverson did not do what he need to progress and despite this Blais offered to let him get back to work with another year in juniors before coming to UND. Beaverson didn't want that so he chose to go elsewhere. Gregoire was offered a year earlier vs. UND and when DU changed the deal, Gregoire went elsewhere. Kind of a two-way street - which certainly was not the case with Clarke. I don't understand. Are you calling me a hypocrite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Which is why I again question the integrity of his parents and/or "advisors". Anyway, the QMJHL can deal with his showboating. His showboating? Is that codeword for rediculous hockey skills. UND got played...it happens...it does. U of M lost it's best player at the middle point of this season. Stuff happens. O well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 His showboating? Is that codeword for rediculous hockey skills. UND got played...it happens...it does. U of M lost it's best player at the middle point of this season. Stuff happens. O well No, the pagentry surrounding his name being announced at the draft, and him appearing out of a tunnel. Probably the only thing missing was a laser light show, smoke machines and some sorry-ass Guns n' Roses tune blaring in the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 No, the pagentry surrounding his name being announced at the draft, and him appearing out of a tunnel. Probably the only thing missing was a laser light show, smoke machines and some sorry-ass Guns n' Roses tune blaring in the background. When you put it that way I wish we had video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Probably the only thing missing was a laser light show, smoke machines and some sorry-ass Guns n' Roses tune blaring in the background. Sounds as though he would've fit right in at The Ralph Well, if he also included over-priced beer, it would be a match made in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 When you put it that way I wish we had video. Especially if his old man was singing "Sweet Child of Mine". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLW4GOPHERS Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Couturier sets new high for N.B.I just don't like these kind of shenanigans, whether it's from a "kid", hid dad or advisor. Your word should mean something. Sorry, but it looks like you have been beaversoned> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I don't understand. Are you calling me a hypocrite?Easy there, big fella - I'm just having a little fun with you. I must say that this thread is probably not the best one to use as an example of Sioux fans being hypocritical though. I'll also say that your expectations of Sioux fans are rather high - I think you would be hard pressed to find substantial differences in the percentage of hypocrites comprising any fan base - whether they be Sioux fans, Manchester United fans, Dodgers fans or *gasp* even Bucky fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I think you guys are over reacting about this Clarke situation a little bit. It's not like it's the first time in the world that a kid has backed out of a verbal commitment. Then why start the thread? Wasn't Josh Siembeda upset with how Blais handled his situation as well? Far be it for me to defend a (former) Sioux , but I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 ^ How can you come here and post logic? Aren't you embarrassed with yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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