Hobey Baker

[Shawn-O]

I'm sure if given the choice of being named the Hobey Baker winner, or the MOP of the Frozen Four, JPL would choose the latter every time.

Goon, I think that you're right about the the Hobey Finalists having similar numbers to Oshie's if they played in the WCHA. Would love to see Oshie's numbers if he played in the CCHA.

We now interupt this WCHA ego stroke with a dose of reality. Check the brackets, folks. CCHA with two in Denver, maybe should have been three. The numbers would be similar.

[LeftyZL]

We now interupt this WCHA ego stroke with a dose of reality. Check the brackets, folks. CCHA with two in Denver, maybe should have been three. The numbers would be similar.

Except neither team has had a WCHA team yet just like MSU last year

[siouxpa]

We now interupt this WCHA ego stroke with a dose of reality. Check the brackets, folks. CCHA with two in Denver, maybe should have been three. The numbers would be similar.

Can we really gauge a conference's strength by the number of teams it has in the FF? In a one-and-done elimination situation, any team in the tournament could be playing in the FF--all it takes is a couple of lucky bounces to completely upset even the best of teams. I'm not saying that the CCHA teams in the tournament are good or bad teams, just making a point that anything can happen in the tournament, and don't understand how the number of teams a conference has in the FF says anything about the strength of the conference. We will never know how Oshie's numbers would look in the CCHA, but it's fun to speculate...

[petey23]

Anyone who thinks the top CCHA teams are anything but good is in denial.....but the bottom of that league is terrible and give up a ton of goals. Half the teams in that conference gave up more goals than UAA in the WCHA who gave up the most.

So do I think if UND and CC and the top offensive teams in the WCHA would light up the bottom teams in the CCHA to the tune of 5 and 6 goals an outing? Yep. Translated, Oshie and Duncan and others would have similar offensive numbers against that competition and if Porter and Kolarick and Jones had to face WCHA teams and officiating night in and and night out their teams would be successful but their numbers would be way down.

Should Lammy have been one of the final 3? Probably but he wasn't, so move on. I know 3 awards left for Lammy and the Sioux to shoot for.

In order:

NCAA championship

Frozen 4 All Tourney

Frozen 4 MVP

And if we get the first one, the 2nd and 3rd will take care of themselves.

[HaksHomey]

I going to look on the positive and support the its-no-longer-a-distraction argument... sure he deserved to be apart of the final 3, but he, the team and all of us would rather beat BC and Notre Dame for number 8

[Goon]

We now interupt this WCHA ego stroke with a dose of reality. Check the brackets, folks. CCHA with two in Denver, maybe should have been three. The numbers would be similar.

That is an interesting point but if three of the six WCHA teams were put in one regional maybe it would have been different.

[AZSIOUX]

I going to look on the positive and support the its-no-longer-a-distraction argument... sure he deserved to be apart of the final 3, but he, the team and all of us would rather beat BC and Notre Dame for number 8

very true

[HaksHomey]

That is an interesting point but if three of the six WCHA teams were put in one regional maybe it would have been different.

that and the fact that st. clown and cc are perennial chokers...

[Goon]

that and the fact that st. clown and cc are perennial chokers...

Yep, that is true. Minnesota was good to get there and I think ran out of gas...

I wonder if you put Denver out east they end up in Frozen Four?

[dagies]

Can we really gauge a conference's strength by the number of teams it has in the FF? In a one-and-done elimination situation, any team in the tournament could be playing in the FF--all it takes is a couple of lucky bounces to completely upset even the best of teams. I'm not saying that the CCHA teams in the tournament are good or bad teams, just making a point that anything can happen in the tournament, and don't understand how the number of teams a conference has in the FF says anything about the strength of the conference. We will never know how Oshie's numbers would look in the CCHA, but it's fun to speculate...

We all loved up the WCHA when it had 4 teams in the FF...

[mikejm]

...it was given to a goaltender who faced about 15 shots a game with the help of a neutral zone trapping system...

Miller actually faced 25 shots per game.

[siouxjoy]

Well, now I have a Friday evening in Denver open on my calendar.

[MafiaMan]

This ranks right up there with Panzer getting robbed in 2001. That was the year that I stopped caring about the Hobey Baker award. If Panzer had played for an East Coast team or a "big time" program, he would have been handed the award on a silver platter. But since he played for North Dakota, it was given to a goaltender who faced about 15 shots a game with the help of a neutral zone trapping system. To this day, everytime I see Ryan Miller's smiling mug on TV I get mad all over again.

I am an obviously biased Sioux fan and also feel that Jeff Panzer deserved the Hobey Baker award in 2001, however, stats don't lie.

Let's compare:

Games played: Ryan Miller 40 JPL 41 (and counting)

Record: Ryan Miller 31-5-4 JPL 27-10-4 (and counting)

Saves: Ryan Miller 1,024 JPL 983 (and counting)

GAA: Ryan Miller 1.32 JPL 1.64

Those statistics are very similar. However, in 2001, we're screaming that Jeff Panzer got robbed. Now, in 2008, we're saying a goalie with similar stats to the goalie who won the Hobey in 2001 got robbed. We can't have it both ways.

By the way, I bolded the number of saves to refute a comment made by the previous poster.

[MafiaMan]

Just for the fun of it, I wanted to post Jeff Panzer's stats next to those of this year's Hobey finalists.

Ryan Jones 42 games, 31 goals, 18 assists, 49 points

Kevin Porter 42 games, 33 goals, 29 assists, 62 points

Nathan Gerbe 41 games, 30 goals, 30 assists, 60 points

Jeff Panzer 46 games, 26 goals, 55 assists, 81 points

OK, obviously Jeff played 4 or 5 more games than those three, but in terms of PPG average, it's still an overwhelming disparity:

Ryan Jones .74 goals per game, .43 assists per game, 1.17 points per game

Kevin Porter .79 goals per game, .69 assists per game, 1.48 points per game

Nathan Gerbe .73 goals per game, .73 assists per game, 1.46 points per game

Jeff Panzer .57 goals per game, 1.20 assists per game, 1.76 points per game

Like I said earlier, I don't think JPL not making the final cut is as big a travesty as Jeff Panzer not winning the award in 2001.

[mikejm]

^Psst, MM.

You're quoting the wrong year's stats. Miller, like Duncan, returned to play another year after winning the Hobey. Here are his last two year's stats. 00-01 is his Hobey year:

2000-01 40 1.32 31 5 4 1024 0.950

2001-02 40 1.77 26 9 5 1039 0.936

(Just trying to help a brutha out.)

[MafiaMan]

Yet another comparison:

Jeff Panzer 46 games, 26 goals, 55 assists, 81 points - no Hobey Baker

Ryan Duncan 43 games, 31 goals, 26 assists, 57 points - Hobey Baker

It's certainly not an exact science. Honestly, I have no idea how the selection is made after viewing the last three posts.

[MafiaMan]

^Psst, MM.

You're quoting the wrong year's stats. Miller, like Duncan, returned to play another year after winning the Hobey. Here are his last two year's stats. 00-01 is his Hobey year:

2000-01 40 1.32 31 5 4 1024 0.950

2001-02 40 1.77 26 9 5 1039 0.936

(Just trying to help a brutha out.)

I thought I had the wrong year but am at work and trying to compute other numbers as well on vacation and not thinking straight. I went ahead and fixed my original post to show the correct numbers, which obviously help Ryan out a little bit, although his 01-02 season was very good too. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

My biggest point is we can't argue that JPL deserves the Hobey and say that Ryan Miller didn't deserve his. Jeff Panzer should have won it in 2001 and if it were up to me, Ryan Jones would not be a finalist for the award this season and JPL would be. Just my two cents.

[jukenjive27]

I bet Ryan Jones slept with the commitee to get on the list, they thought he was a girl with all that hair.

Ok it's all settled now, JPL will have the NCAA title, those fools will go home.

[mikejm]

For everyone's edification, here are the finalists for the 00-01 Hobey and their stats:

Erik Anderson, St. Lawrence 32 17-34-51

Brian Gionta, Boston College 43 33-21-54

Jeff Hamilton, Yale 31 23-32-55

Dany Heatley, Wisconsin 39 24-33-57

Andy Hilbert, Michigan 42 26-38-64

Kent Huskins, Clarkson 35 6-28-34

Jordan Leopold, Minnesota 42 12-37-49 (Leo's numbers were actually better this year than the next, when he won Hobey)

Jeff Panzer, North Dakota 46 26-55-81

Ryan Miller, Michigan State 40 31-5-4 0.950 1.32

Ty Conklin, New Hampshire 34 17-12-5 0.920 2.05

My feeling is that the Hobey panel looks first for a pure goal-scorer, but when a goal tender has the kind of year Miller did (and JPL has this year) they'll allow them into the inner sanctum. I'm not certain of this, but I think Gionta and Bryan Lundbohm were the only 30+ goal scorers in the country that season.

Miller's stats were simply sick.

[MafiaMan]

For everyone's edification, here are the finalists for the 00-01 Hobey and their stats:

Erik Anderson, St. Lawrence 32 17-34-51

Brian Gionta, Boston College 43 33-21-54

Jeff Hamilton, Yale 31 23-32-55

Dany Heatley, Wisconsin 39 24-33-57

Andy Hilbert, Michigan 42 26-38-64

Kent Huskins, Clarkson 35 6-28-34

Jordan Leopold, Minnesota 42 12-37-49 (Leo's numbers were actually better this year than the next, when he won Hobey)

Jeff Panzer, North Dakota 46 26-55-81

Ryan Miller, Michigan State 40 31-5-4 0.950 1.32

Ty Conklin, New Hampshire 34 17-12-5 0.920 2.05

My feeling is that the Hobey panel looks first for a pure goal-scorer, but when a goal tender has the kind of year Miller did (and JPL has this year) they'll allow them into the inner sanctum. I'm not certain of this, but I think Gionta and Bryan Lundbohm were the only 30+ goal scorers in the country that season.

Miller's stats were simply sick.

I think had Panzer had 30 goal and 51 assists, his numbers would have been too much to ignore. You're right about Miller. Those 31 wins and that .950 save percentage are unbelievable.

[Old Time Hockey]

bad or not he is cutting it off to help people with cancer after the season and thats bad ass

He still is a loser!

Stole JPL's spot for the Hobey Hat Trick and stole Commodores idea about cutting his hair for charity reasons!

[UNDintheNHL]

I'm pretty much in shock about this. I just dont get how Jones got in and not Lammy. i mean, porter and gerbe, ok. but not Lammy? if he elads us to a NC i hope some panelists on that voting board choke on something

[The Whistler]

If you were building a new team where would you start? The goalie right?

[AZSIOUX]

He still is a loser!

Stole JPL's spot for the Hobey Hat Trick and stole Commodores idea about cutting his hair for charity reasons!

yeah because he is the one who determines the final 3 so hes a loser people give hair to kids with cancer everyday, sorry commie, wasnt your invention

[AZSIOUX]

I'm pretty much in shock about this. I just dont get how Jones got in and not Lammy. i mean, porter and gerbe, ok. but not Lammy? if he elads us to a NC i hope some panelists on that voting board choke on something

why gerbe? he had a on ice incident didnt he?? they wrote a article on inch about it and maybe the hobey and thats why hensick got left off last year if i recall correctly. gerbe should be sitting it home if thats the case. why is it different? shouldnt be a reason. oh thats right, BC invented hockey..i forgot, sily me........ same reason tj isnt there as the incident hurt his chances big time and it took a lot just to crack that top 10 for him.