Vossberg Speaks Out

[Brainerd Sioux]

I think this issue is gettting old. All of you out there that think UND is a cheap team can kiss my A##. You must have never played hockey before? or at least past squirts. Hockey is a physical game and things happen, there is a HUGE differents in being cheap and getting into fights, being cheap is all the slashes, cross checks and other BULL SH#T UND puts up with game in and game out, don't get me wrong UND is not a bunch of angels on ice, but in the three fight they have been involved in this year they did not instigate. I watched the UND denver game again last night and after UND got up 2-0 Denver was basically head hunting. The Radke Tesweede fight was a shift that Radke was slashed, crosschecked tripped in front of the net and basically followed the whole shift by Testy. The fight at the end of the second was a situation where they did what they hade to do to protect each other. This is a great thing to see from this team they do not back down and they protect each other. IF I wanted to see a bunch of pussies on Ice I would watch a CHEAP team like the Gophers, Denver ect that like to use there sticks for more than just hockey and then cry when people drop there sticks and gloves to be a real man.

I FOR ONE WOULDN'T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY. GO SIOUX AND KEEP IT UP.

[SiouxSpoiler]

I agree, it is getting old. I tire of hearing that it is never our fault. It's not always our fault, by no stretch of the imagination, your all right, it does take two to tango.

But can someone please admit to me that it may be getting a little out of hand, that it isn't coincidence. Maybe, and probably just this year, maybe it is North Dakota. And THIS YEAR it actually isn't Minnesota, and Denver, and Wisconsin, and Mankato, and the referees, and the WCHA commissioner. Maybe there is something behind it this year.

Once again, someone on here posts against the views of North Dakota and everyone comes to the defense of the team. All I see are comments like "I love it!" and "Everyone else started it."

It's not coincidence! It's not, plain and simple.

What exactly caused each brawl. A Cross-check, a poke, a slash. Fine, let it be. If the ref misses it, oh well, we complain about it. But they miss calls both ways, and no, it is not a conspiracy.

We can't say that other teams are too blind to see past their "MAROON HALO" when I have seen no indication that our fan nation can't seem to ever take off their "GREEN GLASSES."

[RexBanner]

What exactly caused each brawl. A Cross-check, a poke, a slash. Fine, let it be. If the ref misses it, oh well, we complain about it. But they miss calls both ways, and no, it is not a conspiracy.

Well, it appears that some of the Sioux players are like a lot of the Sioux fans--they have thin skin.

[Diggler]

When Kaip charged the Wisconsin player and a brawl broke out, it was UND's fault. When Mannino punched Finley, it was 15-on-2 and Radke came out to fight Vossberg, it was UND's fault. How does that work?

I have no problem with UND taking the blame in the Gopher or most of the blame for the Badger scrum, but the one against the Pioneers was not UND's doing.

[AZSIOUX]

I agree, it is getting old. I tire of hearing that it is never our fault. It's not always our fault, by no stretch of the imagination, your all right, it does take two to tango.

But can someone please admit to me that it may be getting a little out of hand, that it isn't coincidence. Maybe, and probably just this year, maybe it is North Dakota. And THIS YEAR it actually isn't Minnesota, and Denver, and Wisconsin, and Mankato, and the referees, and the WCHA commissioner. Maybe there is something behind it this year.

Once again, someone on here posts against the views of North Dakota and everyone comes to the defense of the team. All I see are comments like "I love it!" and "Everyone else started it."

It's not coincidence! It's not, plain and simple.

What exactly caused each brawl. A Cross-check, a poke, a slash. Fine, let it be. If the ref misses it, oh well, we complain about it. But they miss calls both ways, and no, it is not a conspiracy.

We can't say that other teams are too blind to see past their "MAROON HALO" when I have seen no indication that our fan nation can't seem to ever take off their "GREEN GLASSES."

so what do you want done? you want a sioux fan to say we are at some fault and that will make you feel better? dont get it. not sure what you want and how that makes things any different? should the sioux close up shop and quit playing hockey at UND because they are bullies? go check back and watch some 1982 clips and so forth and you will see there has been worse occasions than a few fights. last year there were 2 or 3 fights as well with the sioux. it happens, get over it and move on...... where was the outcry then?

its all our fault every game every year is that what you want GO SIOUX - THE RACE FOR 8 IS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG HITTIN A 4 FOOT BONG DURING A GAME OF PING PONG

[The Whistler]

When Kaip charged the Wisconsin player and a brawl broke out, it was UND's fault. When Mannino punched Finley, it was 15-on-2 and Radke came out to fight Vossberg, it was UND's fault. How does that work?

I have no problem with UND taking the blame in the Gopher or most of the blame for the Badger scrum, but the one against the Pioneers was not UND's doing.

Kaip's charge was not a charge. On the other hand it was unnecessary in the last few seconds of a game and it would have been better to not do it.

I disagree that we are responsible for anything in Minnesota with the exception of Finley pulling Wheeler out of line. So what if he doesn't shake hands like a gentlemen. Originally I had thought that Zajac's cross check was unwarrented but looking at the replay it was 100% deserved.

[LFSPRO]

This is a team that is close and sticks up for each other, for that we should all be thankful. As to this UND team being "goons" or such I find amusing.

If you watch replays of the games from the late 70's and early 80's this team looks like choirboys. I can remember the same things being said of those teams and they won championships. Other teams complain when they get don't win and want to blame it on physical play.

It is nice to see good, clean, hard checks. I hope they keep playing tough hockey and that reflects on the W vs L record.

[AZSIOUX]

This is a team that is close and sticks up for each other, for that we should all be thankful. As to this UND team being "goons" or such I find amusing.

If you watch replays of the games from the late 70's and early 80's this team looks like choirboys. I can remember the same things being said of those teams and they won championships. Other teams complain when they get don't win and want to blame it on physical play.

It is nice to see good, clean, hard checks. I hope they keep playing tough hockey and that reflects on the W vs L record.

bottom line is bolded. win win win and great things will happen. we have jumped up in every poll every week and are a top 2 pwr team now. haters will hate but it is magnified so much more when you are winning. go sioux - keep this going vs the beavs

[passit_offthegoalie]

" don't start nothin', won't be nothin' "

I think they should stitch that into the back of all the sioux jerseys, because thats what it boils down to. somebody should use that for the "USCHO-describe your team in 6 words thread"

[dagies]

Hello Sioux fans, first time poster here, so take what I have to say for what its worth.

I feel that this team has always been a physical team, no doubt about that. They are tough and hard checking and that is how we play North Dakota hockey. Proud of it too!

But it seems like this year that we've gotten MORE than physical. Yes, our players are defending their teammates, which can be expected...if undoubtedly provoked. All I seem to see these days is us defending our seemingly new style of play.

We must admit to ourselves that Denver and Minnesota have a point. It cannot be a coincidence that the four brawls this year have ALL involved North Dakota. We can talk about Genoway being ganged up on, and the possible cross-check by R.J. Anderson, but the fact is, they don't ALWAYS necessarily require this kind of retaliation. Cross-checking and "cheap shots" happen in every game. Every last one. Every team gets away with a call, including us.

So why does it seem that we're the only ones that find it necessary to start a brawl? We tend to blame the referees for all of these problems, but once again, the fact is we have 13 more penalties and 108 more penalty minutes than any other team in the WCHA, and that's with three less games!

Now I know that most of this post will probably be ignored, and I will possibly be ridiculed for this, because I've seen other Sioux fans speak up like this and have their opinions shot down. I can only hope that I will not be antagonized as the gopher fans usually are. We can hopefully keep this on a more adult level than seems to happen over on GPL.

Go ahead, take your shots.

Welcome to the board. Reasonably stated opinions like yours should never be ridiculed and one reason yours wasn't is because you didn't come from a holier-than-thou perspective.

I agree with some of what you say. I don't think the Sioux are angels, and they have started their share of things, as well as take their share of cheap shots. It's just that I don't think other teams are innocent either, though they point to the coincidence of the Sioux fights to say that MUST be where the blame lays.

I bolded one of your sentances. Everyone blames the Sioux for Zajac starting the scrum at the end of the game, yet Zajac did what happens by most teams in most games. He cross-checked a guy after the whistle. Lucia responded by wanting to fight Zajac. Zajac is blamed for starting that fight. Where is the criticism of Lucia escalating the situation? No one blames Lucia, yet in similar situations the Sioux are blamed for taking the Lucia role.

Why is that?

It's because it's become convenient for the Hate-UND crowd to spin it that way. Keep repeating something often enough and it becomes fact.

It's fact that the Sioux have been involved in several situations, but if you look at each one individually, it's not as black and white as most fans outside of this program will admit.

[jk]

Listened to the Inch podcast, and they mentioned something that has been brought up in message board posts:

UND has managed to kill off the penalties they've taken, so they feel like they can continue to take them. However, this may come back to hurt them in the postseason.

I was curious, so I went back to the MSUM series that started the 2008 brawl season, a stretch that included the last four weekends. In those eight games against MSUM, UAA, MN and DU, the Sioux are 8-42 on the PP. Their opponents are an aggregate 4-32. That's right, the big bad Sioux have been in the penalty box 10 fewer times than their opponents over this stretch, when their wickedness was made evident to all.

The Sioux may lead the nation in penalty minutes, but the most penalized team in the country this year may be UND's opponents.

This supports my feeling that this year's Sioux team does not play the intimidation game that everyone seems to think, especially in comparison to the Greene, Jones, Schneider, Smaby group that was so brutal. The Sioux this year are not nearly that physical (in fact they're undersized on D) and they're not that chippy either, as evidenced by the lack of "regular" penalties. Their penalty numbers are outsized because of the four big dust-ups. Blame for those events is in the eye of the beholder, but I think this year's Sioux team just doesn't like to take crap.

[Dean]

I agree, it is getting old. I tire of hearing that it is never our fault. It's not always our fault, by no stretch of the imagination, your all right, it does take two to tango.

But can someone please admit to me that it may be getting a little out of hand, that it isn't coincidence. Maybe, and probably just this year, maybe it is North Dakota. And THIS YEAR it actually isn't Minnesota, and Denver, and Wisconsin, and Mankato, and the referees, and the WCHA commissioner. Maybe there is something behind it this year.

Once again, someone on here posts against the views of North Dakota and everyone comes to the defense of the team. All I see are comments like "I love it!" and "Everyone else started it."

It's not coincidence! It's not, plain and simple.

What exactly caused each brawl. A Cross-check, a poke, a slash. Fine, let it be. If the ref misses it, oh well, we complain about it. But they miss calls both ways, and no, it is not a conspiracy.

We can't say that other teams are too blind to see past their "MAROON HALO" when I have seen no indication that our fan nation can't seem to ever take off their "GREEN GLASSES."

I couldn't agree more. Excellent post.

[jojordan23]

Listened to the Inch podcast, and they mentioned something that has been brought up in message board posts:

UND has managed to kill off the penalties they've taken, so they feel like they can continue to take them. However, this may come back to hurt them in the postseason.

I was curious, so I went back to the MSUM series that started the 2008 brawl season, a stretch that included the last four weekends. In those eight games against MSUM, UAA, MN and DU, the Sioux are 8-42 on the PP. Their opponents are an aggregate 4-32. That's right, the big bad Sioux have been in the penalty box 10 fewer times than their opponents over this stretch, when their wickedness was made evident to all.

The Sioux may lead the nation in penalty minutes, but the most penalized team in the country this year may be UND's opponents.

This supports my feeling that this year's Sioux team does not play the intimidation game that everyone seems to think, especially in comparison to the Greene, Jones, Schneider, Smaby group that was so brutal. The Sioux this year are not nearly that physical (in fact they're undersized on D) and they're not that chippy either, as evidenced by the lack of "regular" penalties. Their penalty numbers are outsized because of the four big dust-ups. Blame for those events is in the eye of the beholder, but I think this year's Sioux team just doesn't like to take crap.

NOW THAT is a well-stated post!!! I completely agree J/K, I am glad someone found a way to say what I feel far more intelligently than I could have!

[farce poobah]

Listened to the Inch podcast, and they mentioned something that has been brought up in message board posts:

UND has managed to kill off the penalties they've taken, so they feel like they can continue to take them. However, this may come back to hurt them in the postseason.

I was curious, so I went back to the MSUM series that started the 2008 brawl season, a stretch that included the last four weekends. In those eight games against MSUM, UAA, MN and DU, the Sioux are 8-42 on the PP. Their opponents are an aggregate 4-32. That's right, the big bad Sioux have been in the penalty box 10 fewer times than their opponents over this stretch, when their wickedness was made evident to all.

The Sioux may lead the nation in penalty minutes, but the most penalized team in the country this year may be UND's opponents.

This supports my feeling that this year's Sioux team does not play the intimidation game that everyone seems to think, especially in comparison to the Greene, Jones, Schneider, Smaby group that was so brutal. The Sioux this year are not nearly that physical (in fact they're undersized on D) and they're not that chippy either, as evidenced by the lack of "regular" penalties. Their penalty numbers are outsized because of the four big dust-ups. Blame for those events is in the eye of the beholder, but I think this year's Sioux team just doesn't like to take crap.

Great research - thanks! for doing the work.

I think the big theme of the second half is that we're playing at outstanding tempo, especially neutral zone and on transition. That cuts both ways - fewer taken and more drawn.

1) The Sioux are drawing lots of penalties by sheer hustle, speed, tenacity. Of the 42 PP opps, Oshie alone has probably drawn 15. Guys like Trupp, Watkins, VV, similarly.

2) The Sioux aren't taking a lot of penalties, because of tempo above AND because the puck isn't in our defensive zone much.

3) This constant full-speed assault is creating lots of hits, and pi$$ing off the opposition.

The only team I've seen that can flat out skate with the Sioux at full tempo is CC. I'd love to see a Final Five Title game of UND-CC.

[Riverman]

I couldn't agree more. Excellent post.

I would much rather have teams like the U of M when Eric Westrum was there. Little rabbit punch here checking from behind there. That's what hockey is all about.

Is it me or have other teams stopped running Phil after a few so called "fights" happened. Don't believe me run the tapes/tivo of a few games from the past and now the present.

[vikes80]

I think we've settled the new nickname problem. I in fact like Murder Incorporated more better than the Fighting Sioux.

North Dakota North Stars would be a good one to get a rise outta rodent central. Our motto could be "Here to Stay!"

[Riverman]

I think the big theme of the second half is that we're playing at outstanding tempo, especially neutral zone and on transition. That cuts both ways - fewer taken and more drawn.

1) The Sioux are drawing lots of penalties by sheer hustle, speed, tenacity. Of the 42 PP opps, Oshie alone has probably drawn 15. Guys like Trupp, Watkins, VV, similarly.

2) The Sioux aren't taking a lot of penalties, because of tempo above AND because the puck isn't in our defensive zone much.

3) This constant full-speed assault is creating lots of hits, and pi$$ing off the opposition.

The only team I've seen that can flat out skate with the Sioux at full tempo is CC. I'd love to see a Final Five Title game of UND-CC.

DU had no time to trap at all that weekend. I agree with #3 the most. Teams that can't keep up the tempo are easy targets for a speedy team.

From my section in 106 I seen the Sioux team standing watching every play even when they were behind on Friday. DU warming the pine even when they had a lead. I think this Sioux team is hungry and I too would love to see a CC & Sioux match up!

[petey23]

As much as I disliked him, I am going to quote him. "I would rather have to tell my guys whoa, than giddyup."...Rocky Hager

Some food for thought.

Our opponents are averaging just over 20 pim this year compared to our 22 pim.

Our game averages on some past teams

1982 15

1987 18

1997 16

2000 15

2006 23

[Telly33]

Denver has completely quit on Little Georgie and all he can think to do is whine about the beating his guy took. Nice.

I put my $0.02 in the comments section after the Vossberg article.

AT

[dagies]

The Sioux may lead the nation in penalty minutes, but the most penalized team in the country this year may be UND's opponents.

This supports my feeling that this year's Sioux team does not play the intimidation game that everyone seems to think, especially in comparison to the Greene, Jones, Schneider, Smaby group that was so brutal. The Sioux this year are not nearly that physical (in fact they're undersized on D) and they're not that chippy either, as evidenced by the lack of "regular" penalties. Their penalty numbers are outsized because of the four big dust-ups. Blame for those events is in the eye of the beholder, but I think this year's Sioux team just doesn't like to take crap.

[mikejm]

Did I hear something about a bong?

[Sioux-cia]

Did I hear something about a bong?

Pio helmet hair...

[AZSIOUX]

Did I hear something about a bong?

maybe in my post but cant remember if it was in this thread thats what bongs will do to a man