yababy8

I'm interested to know your cost vs benifit analysis on this. particularly the costs?

You are correct about everything you posted here. But Just for the record, it is only over because we are all going to let it be over. The will of the people is always realized just as long as they continue to have will. (only exception to this murder)

Sweet the Summit is coming to town! We should invite them to breakfast at the Village Inn and buy them some pancakes!

what is the scoop on Miller, is he good? Does he have a face for TV??

fightingsioux.com had an interesting article on the old Hockey barn on their website today. It made me curious about what Sioux Hockey was like back then... Is there anyone on SiouxSports.com that can claim to have been a fan and watched Sioux hockey back when they played there? Or at least does anyone know of a person who experienced Sioux BARN hockey? If so let's here about it. Also, where was the barn located??

I agree "warning" was not a good discription of your post. My appologies.. To quote a pirate, your post was 'more of a quideline'.

I bored so I thought I would throw in my two cents here. First, any interested parties should notice Jim's post where it says "negative RESPONSE to a lot of his posts" This suggests that the issue is not MPLSBISON, instead those who have reacted negatively to his posts need to clean it up a bit. I agree with this. I will defend MPLSBISON even though I know he is an instigator and he argues against reason and civility. (anyone on here who has read my posts regarding the name change knows I am radically opposed to any kind of concessions regarding having our name stolen from us) Having said that, MPLSBISON is like a machine, he is relentless at arguments but does not cross the line. ie, there is no basis to boot him. On another note I don't think Icebergs post should have warranted a mod warning. He was making a point of clarity and a contention that a poster exaggerated the facts. That should always be welcome I think. Having said this, I think Sprig and PSB are absolutely AWESOME members of this forum. One of the best days of my life was when I watched my first game on FTA after I purchased a system from PSB. And I will not forget the time that PSB hung on the phone with me for over a half hour to help me tune to a Wisconsin feed on a different satellite! If the world was full of guys like Sprig and PSB we would be in a pretty good place, especially if we have guys like Iceberg keeping an eye on them. lol

Now that is more like it.. Somebody is looking for some justice in America? nice to see!

If people put 1/2 as much energy into being vocal about the injustice that is the looming name change as they do arguing with MPLSBISON I do think we would be much closer to being heard than where we stand today. BTW, anyone who thinks MPLSBISON's point on the current stadium topic has no validity is just plain irrational and unable to think objectively. The bottom line is both sides are correct because it is an argument of perception and interpretation. I think the original point that was made stated, it should be viewed as 'hypocritical' toward the NCAA if they had a regional in the United Center. On some level this is clearly true. Then the argument switched to what the NCAA can do regarding it's "right to choose a venue" this is about as stupid an argument as I have ever seen on this site. WE all KNOW that the NCAA can do whatever it wants to do, DON'T WE?? They will pick wherever they want to have the tourneys. If they can make up !@#$ like, hostile and abusive and have you all swallow it to the degree that you all let them take OUR name away, then how hard do you think it will be for them if they decide to choose the United Center for A Frozen four? Hmmmmm?

You might be proven a "little" wrong. Here are some things to consider; UNO- Showed a serious commitment to a high end program by scoring Blais. They have been on an up swing the last couple years already. They have kick ass attendence numbers. If I wanted to play in the WCHA in front of a crowd. I would be thinking if not UND or Wisconsin then UNO would be right there with UofM. Bemidji- recent frozen four. Rich history. good coach. Nice new arena and lots of fan energy to boot. Either or both could suprise I think.

First, just for clarity- I have accused the media of spinning this issue and employing manipulative reporting techniques to brainwash their readers into conforming with the travesty we are being served. It is in the nature of posts on a blog to "spin" as they are openly and overtly an argument such as an Op-Ed article in the paper. Now as far as the accuracy of $150 million, I concede that is a guestimation. Now if it is say $136.8 million instead of the $150 guess I assert that it does not fundamentally change my point so it is of very very little relevance to the point I was making. BTW, my $150 million dollar guess was loosely based on my memory of $110 million for the arena and $50 million (=$160 million and I rounded down) that I had a memory of him giving to the U at the same time he pledged the original $50 for the REA. I do not know if the increase from $50 to $100 plus million for the REA meant he did not give the other $50 to the school? As far as your point about Ralph not worrying about what others thought- I agree that he probably didn't. But that does not mean that we should so quickly forget about the AMAZING gift he gave us all and also continue to appreciate what we all know mattered to him- the FIGHTING SIOUX name and its part in the FIGHTING SIOUX tradition. Here is another way of explaining how I look at this issue: If I had given someone or some group over one hundred million dollars I would be very disappointed if that did not create a relationship between me and them where if something like this absolute injustice happens we don't give something in return to protect what all of us love. Why is it so hard for people to motivate to fight for our name? The Sioux people would fight to keep their name, Ralph would fight to keep the name (he did). He gave so much to all of us and so far we have let him as well as each other down. So I hope the REA fights for the name in EVERY goddamn way they can for as long as they can and maybe, just maybe, you all will get a fire lit under your collective asses and actually do something about what is being done to you. Then and only then will we all be free men. Until then we are all somewhere between slug and slave waiting eternally for the next gift to fall into our laps and crying about how the last one was taken from us.

It seems as if you are trying to achieve the label of moron as.... Who is demonstrating poor reading comprehension here? I did not call you a moron- I said your supposition was moronic. I did not assert that you made a claim 'as to how R.E. would feel..", I claimed that your statement, and I put it in bold, that we have "no idea" regarding what Ralph's position would be today was moronic and I even gave an analogy to help you see the moronic error in your post. So, despite quoting your point and putting the subject of my criticism in BOLD and further giving an analogy, you were not able to demonstrate fundamental reading comprehension. IF that is not pathetic enough, you go on to call me out For having a "stunning lack of reading comprehension". You know I think Ralph was a much better man than me because if I had $150 million bucks to do with what I wanted I would NEVER give it away knowing people like you would benefit from it in any way.

WOW! That is about the most impressively moronic suggestion think I have ever heard. You might as well say, Five years after William Wallace died he might have supported England's acquisition of Scotland with the caveat that Scotland be included in the rotation for the national archery championships.

Guy spends $150 Million dollars of his OWN money on a Ice rink that we couldn't even have dreamed of before he made it happen. He only wanted one thing in return, to have the name he loved not be taken from us all becuase of PC knee jerk reactions to victim addict crybabies. Now you say that the board, which was NOT a part of the settlement, should defy Ralphs only wish because why? If you ever go inside the ralph to enjoy an event, hopefully the manager will throw your ass out and wont use the door gifthorse looker!

hey DAKOTA Dan, change your name racist! Her is some logic for you to ponder while you roll over after your long fight to preserve who we all are as Fighting Sioux Fans... We will BE whatever "we" want to BE. No one tells anyone who to be period. If they try, well then one of two things happen; They either destroy the "we" or they fail. In this case the "we" will be changed to you or the "we" will continue to be the Fighting Sioux. Sounds like some people here want to continue to be who they-WE are... THE FIGHTING Sioux. I have one thing to say to anyone who says, " OOO-K let's just do what they tell us to do (even though we know very well it is the wrong thing to do) and you can send me a private message and I'll let you know what that is. .. sorry about being so direct. I have no tolerance for people letting bad things happen to them and doing nothing about it while they say that everything that could have been done was done. You, as well as 97% of all of the Fighting Sioux victims, have done nothing to stop this injustice and it frankly pisses me off because I LOVE everything about being an alumn of UND and saying I am a Fighting Sioux.

We all flew over the cuckoo's rink Yes we have all done so much, we must sleep now.. Our minds are exhausted and our feet are blistered. We have lost our voices time and again. We cannot protest another second as we have all given every moment possible to the endeavor. Sooo soooo sooo tired... must sleep now... Go to sleeep, tired activist.. You fought hard, your fought proud! You did all you could and then you did more.. Must sleep solder! let your dreams relieve you of the weight of your lost battle. It's only a name.. Everything will be ok! There are other things to care about. There is nothing you could have done. No way for victory. You made sure, you did everything you could. You and your fellow man- side by side- all fought the fight and lived the struggle. Now it's time to sleep. Good night.

North Dakotan's - fighting Sioux fans- should not allow the NCAA to manipulate them into sacarificing the Sioux name. You all need to realize how valuable your bond is with that and how UNIQUE and SPECIAL of a thing you all have there in the middle of nowhere. And the fact that you choose to allow some dude (RHHT) 300 miles away from you to manipulate government a bit on some reservation with no damn relationship with your part of the world at all to tear the name from you and kick your passion into the earth is frankly- PATHETIC. In the end it is the Sioux fans who will decide the future of the Sioux name. Will ya all roll over??

Now you are using emotional suggestions to manipulate-- But I'm not so easily fooled I was pointing out that the two sociological events both arose from people having things taken away from them based on brainwash- Seeing things with a warped, illogical perspective brought on by people or a group with an agenda. Allow me to explain the brainwash process that has occurred: Through all of the guilting and emotional manipulating that has been done by opponents who subscribe to a socially immature victimization addiction, we have all become more accepting of the idea of losing our name - That is what the article about our University institution culture was addressing. The fact of the matter is that the closest thing to reasonable (and to be clear it is NOT reasonable) the name opponents have as an argument is that the name shouldn't be used if it offends Sioux people. (Please allow me to say again this argument is bogus itself when you consider the following: (1)No ill intent, (2)The fact that the name can reasonably be said to refer to historic Sioux which no one has the prerogative to speak for because they are all dead and gone. (3)The concept that no one has the right to deny the use of a word-something the Sioux historically believed regarding everything having to do with ownership and possession). Now to address this best argument- that the name shouldn't be used if it offends Sioux people- First of all, everyone will agree that the name is not used with the intent to offend and that the name was not used in the past as a word to offend or as a pejorative. That is not something even the most fervent opponent would even attempt to suggest correct? So that leaves only the position that the name is inherently offensive just because it is being USED at all. I would say this would be the perspective of someone who is addicted to the perception of being classified as a victim. oh and by the way two thirds of the only group of Sioux to be mathematically enumerated on the topic say they are not victimized by the use of the name and in essence go on to say that they rather approve of it. Yet here we are. Given everything I outlined above, and almost everyone is going to accept the lose of the name when that happens. At least in the sense that they will effectively do nothing about it. So there you have it. A study on how propaganda and brainwash can effectively take something very special away from an entire group of innocent people. And I bet if you ask the people you mentioned above about that they would agree. So in the future, please refrain from making emotionally manipulative statements in an attempt to gain some advantage where you have none. As much as most everyone knows this name change is asinine, everyone as well knows that this is not mass genocide! Wouldn't you agree?

I think a more appropriate comparison with the people who supported the Third Reich would be people who believe that UND's use of the Sioux name is wrong hence they (UND) should be disallowed from using it. That my friends is Mind Control 101- prapaganda to manipulate people thought emotional based thinking. It's quite a study to see how what people accept being done to them evolves. Five years ago most name supporters defended the name from the LOGIC that it was no more deragatory than the Vikings or Irish and that in a free society it is rediculus to be forced not to use a word you choose to use- especially when it is used with NO intent to be negative. Now, five years later, those same people are all saying that if a group of people on the border of North and South Dakota decide they do not want to give their tacid approval of UND's use of the name then, despite another tribe which, oh by the way, is four times closer to UND gave them overwhelming approval to use the name, they will be be OK with having something we LOVE taken away from us. That my fiends is a textbook study on Propaganda and Brainwash. You all been served!

South Africa- (see wikipedia for an index of sources) A survey for the period 1998

This all should happen regardless of the name. Using the Fighting Sioux name should not predicate that the school do things for anyone. It is a name and if it is not a deragatory name, and it isn't, then the school or anyone should be free to use it as they see fit. That is a basic principal of Freedom isn't it? It is funny how something so rediculess to begin with gets cought up in idealogical debates to the point that the argument evolves away from the rhetoric of it all in the first place. The name should have never been questioned and the stuff iramurphy speaks of should be done by the University just because it is the right thing to do for a good number of reasons, and if you want to call using the name a reason it wouldn't be one of the top five, thus not really a reason at all..

You are like the singular personification/poster-child for the one sided media spin that continually gets spewed regarding UND-Native Americans-and the name. Even if you we correct about about what you spewed in your post regarding the "entire percentage of all Sioux people" that would actually support the name, that was not the issue about which I posted. My point was and is that in the preponderance of media written about UND and the Sioux name is one sided in that it includes quotes and facts that support the anti-name view and leaves out facts(like votes) and quotes that support the pro-nickname side. My perception is that about 50% of the articles I have read leave out the Spirit lake vote, about 90% of the articles favor anti-name quotes, about 90% of the articles lead with the anti-name view point and associated quotes while placing pro-name view points with lesser or no quotes later in the article (back paging them), about 99% of articles do not cite the Sports Illustrated poll mentioned by other posters above or the Fargo Forum poll which equally reflected overwhelming support of the name. PLEASE NOTE: I qualified the percentages outline in the paragraph prior to this one as "my perceptions". I reiterate that my post before this one was to point out that the article written about the BlackHawks was one sided in its quotes and presentation of facts and the main point of this post is that your response to it was moronic.

Yet another article with one sided reporting of the truth. The author left out the fact that 70% of the Sioux people who have voted say they want the name. The author can find a nice juicy anti-name quote from our favorite RHHT but can't seem to include a quote from anyone either for the name or saying anything that makes sense, unlike RHHT talking about the calvary and crazy things like that??? It would have been way to hard for the author to even mention how the Sioux name is presented at UND and the Ralph. That would have been surely a sided position with bias. huh???

Good luck with that one. Mr Haga likes to write articles of propaganda where he gets quotes from anti-nickname criminal/murderers? and convieniently forgets to get a single quote from one of a 70% majority. How is he still getting a pay check from our free and unbias press?? Oh and he ignores emails calling him out on these facts! Doubt he will be doing any round tables any time soon!