Irish

The program certainly didn't improve in my opinion - Having a 5th year senior quarterback with BCS credentials transfer in didn't hurt things either. Still a very frustrating season.

I am one of the many who are sick of Bison trolls hijacking every thread - the best way to prevent that is a simple two part plan - 1. Don't mention the Bison ourselves when talking about our team and 2. Don't feed the trolls Having said that - in relationship to this endless discussion - I would rather that the Sioux had a signature win than a signature "played pretty well against".

Fair enough - I have similar expectations - I think you place way more emphasis on our perceived recruiting handicaps than I, but it's a subjective call. I think it's agreed that Muss will get another couple of years. I hope things turn around, but am kind of worried that they won't. In addition to our won-lost record, I think part of the frustration on this board stems from the type of play we watched. It has been a long time since I have seen a Sioux team get absolutely physically bullied by teams in our own division. Doggone it - that's not what I think of when I think of "Sioux" football. Add the recent success of the team to our south and it makes for a tough year. I hope we return to our winning ways soon.

One thing about college football is that at the end of the season there are some pretty good black and white indicators about how the season went - won-lost record, playoff success, success compared to our rivals. You do not need to be a college coach or former player to have a pretty good idea of the season (like some seem to think here). I would love for some of the status quo defenders to state plainly what should be a reasonable expectation for this program for the next 3-4 years. How can we tell if our program is successful or not. I don't know what business you are in, but every job I know has specific performance expectations and consequences if they aren't met.

Aww, but I don't want to temper my expectations next year -

So .... your point is that it is better than fightingbooya thinks because our poor play is due to lack of talent rather than lack of execution?

Even though we have disagreed in the past, I too hope you and your group become more active on this board - we'd love to hear your insight. Died in the wool fans like your group are essential to any college program. Because of your group make-up, your group seems very supportive to the coaches. I'd love to hear some of your discussions. I would like to hear some of your group opinions on some of the issues on this board (not just a blanket condemnation of anyone who questions a coach accusing him/her of thinking they know more) Here are some things I would like to know (please know I'm not trying to be a smart a**, just want to hear your point of view) - What does it mean to "do transition the right way" - I hear this all the time, but with no specifics - NDSU has had four 10-1 seasons since making the jump - are we doing it a better way than them? - What are some reasonable expectations for the next couple of years for the football team? At what point are we not on the right track? - Have there ever been times when a coach is not working out and needs to go? - I too am a long time Sioux fan - UND has historically given their coaches the benefit of the doubt and a long time to work things out. However, some of the changes have turned programs around (Bjorkman, Burns, Rivard). Other coaches like Glass have been given a long time because of their previous success. - Does your group ever become frustrated with the quality of play? I too know a group of older fans - having our defensive line getting blown out game after game or seeing a talented but undisciplined group of juniors on the Men's BB leads to comparison of the Sioux play in their glory days. - What does your group think needs to happen to get back to where we need to be in DI? Finally, I need to comment on your recruiting story - If I understand you, a talented kid who has a father and grandfather who are alumni and who has had a lifelong dream to become a Sioux, after meeting and being recruited by Muss and staff (and rather intensely I would assume) is going elsewhere because of this fan board? Although this may be the excuse he is giving his grandpa, there is something missing here. Please post more on this board - we would love to hear your ideas.

I get the same message

Moving up to DI means that you will have to adjust to playing better athletes and a faster game - It may take a few years. It doesn't mean that your team should suddenly play like they have never heard of the fundamentals of the game or teamwork. This applies also to the football team.

I can't stand the Bison, but they are setting the bar pretty high. Wake up call time for Muss and Company. We need to demand excellence from our program too, and right soon.

It seems to me that Hak's teams slow starts have some commonalities (actually many, but some are just general poor hockey play). We always have trouble with the break-out. It doesn't matter if we have many veterans returning or just a few, there seems to be no flow in our play for at least half a year. Poor to uneven special teams play (see the Notre Dame game - we had just scored and had a 5 on 3 advantage - a real chance to take over the game - how did that work for us) - also see the Notre Dame example for extremely poor penalties we sometimes take. And finally, a rash of horrible turnovers by guys who should know better . If this happens once or twice this could just be a team that needs to work the kinks out. But 8 years running? I really felt that with the fantastic effort we got from some of the young guys last year and with the amount of talent returning that this would be the year we didn't have this start. We need to feel a sense of urgency and get it together now.

Come on - we are way too talented to play like this at the start of the season. These starts are getting old. Get it done.

You make a good point - Many fans remember the teams you mention - in fact when you look at the Basketball crowd you see mostly older fans. Why? Because it has been a long time since Sioux basketball has been top notch. Now we see a very talented group of Juniors. Why are they criticized? Because if you watched any of Gunther's teams you saw an extremely cohesive unit that played total team ball. Maybe not always the best talent, but a group that played smart and followed his system to much success. Some of the best shooting guards ever including Scarprud and Goodrich. You never saw these guys whine and take reckless shots or pout if they didn't get the ball enough to suit them. Watching this very talented group can be very frustrating in so many ways. They need to get it together and play as a team - I'm not saying they never do, it's just that they don't consistently do it.

Just saying that a feature of Hat's teams is that they coast until January - I can understand when some teams need to work out chemistry etc and jell later, but almost every Hak coached team under performs until the second half - Although it is nice to see the second half surge, It would be nice to get it done from start to finish. I can't believe that we have to start over every year. We have enough returners to understand his system this year.

how about the last 8 years?

Name me another top flight team that doesn't start playing up to potential until late January

Couldn't agree more - with what we have returning no way I expected this start - when will Hak's teams start playing the first half of the year - this can't be part of a winning stategy - and a coach got fired to give us this defense

I think it's safe to say that no one knows quite what to think of the lack of tackling we saw this year. Is it lack of talent, lack of speed, poor defensive schemes, coaching, lack of concentration, lack of leadership and pride, or probably a little of all. You are right, at this level all defensive players should know how to tackle. And, after one or two poor showings you would think they would have gotten their acts together. All we know is that we expected a fairly salty defense this year and instead this bizarro team showed up and stayed all year. The total inability to solve this problem makes me wonder.

Muss needs to get his act together and get this program on track soon or we are looking at a lost decade of Sioux Football. How we go through a year with a defense that looks like ours did is beyond me. I have seen high school programs that were much more assignment sharp and ready to play than we were - not to mention better tacklers. It seems like a good many are ready to settle for mediocrity and have adjusted expectations down. What has Muss shown this far that makes you think he will lead us to the top?

Add about 4 years to pull the program out of the hole he dug, and you have way over a lost decade. I have seen nothing from Muss to indicate he's the guy we need and plenty to show he is not. How many years do we want this program to go dark?

How do you like him now? I never said I was smarter than the coaches, but I sure as hell could manage the end of a game better than Muss did today.

Hey Saunders - what does it feel like to play behind 6 drafted defensemen? Hard to say - he sees the same amount of rubber. I am very tired of the Sioux mailing it in until after Christmas - there are enough veterans on this team to have a decent start and play up to our talent. I've always liked Gleeson, but he might as well shoot one in our goal each game.

Friday - Forbert Saturday - Rocco

I would feel a whole lot better about the officiating that we saw this weekend if next year we had a league run right. I thought the Sioux were movers and shakers in the new league. How in the wide wide world of sports did we end up with the director of officials being the only ref who has publicly stated his hatred for the Sioux (and hosed us again this weekend). What is Faison doing - I wish Sioux fans would insist on a public accounting from Faison on why this tool was selected for the new league. Have we no say in things at all. Someone needs to come clean on what happened because it is not good news for Sioux hockey.

I don't think this team will ever learn about bad shots and coach can't/won't insist that they do