Irish

Interesting observation - maybe because this is a Sioux board - I think it is clear NDSU has an edge in talent right now. We have a couple of highly touted classes on the young end and maybe that is where the optimism comes from. Hopefully, in a couple of years we will catch up or be ahead. I think it is harder for the casual fan to evaluate talent than it is to look at the game plan. For example, no way Sioux Falls had more talent - we just plain got outcoached. I think from watching last year's team both lines and our entire defense needs a talent upgrade. However, quarterback and receivers were outstanding. The talk in the section that I sit in was more about schemes than talent. For example, we knew our defense was not well stocked, but most of the complaints were about horrible fundamentals like tackling and how far off our corners played. In addition, Muss has not shown himself to be a good clock manager. These things are very obvious at gametime. The general feeling is that we have some great talent, but that it is young. We shall see. I think in two years, Sioux fans would be more than happy to have a talent debate. Now that I have you here as an "impartial" judge - how well do you think Muss's record and career would have been received at NDSU - would he still be there? Geaux Sioux and I have been having a debate - he maintains NDSU is a patient program because of the stability of the coaching situations - I think there is tremendous pressure to produce and little margin for error. The stability comes from having a good program.

Only if you need to use it as an excuse

If Muss was the coach at NDSU during their transition and beginning of DI and he had the exact same record as he does here how do you think he would fare. At 28-26 no way he would still be around, let alone having fans saying that if he could only go 7-4 this year he deserves a long term extension. Although we have definately made improvements, our defense last year and the fact that we didn't belong on the same field as the big boys (Eastern Washington and Montana State) would not be well received. In my opinion, UND has been very patient so far with Muss. I feel that he needs to show us something this year - A signature win perhaps, or at least 7-4. In addition, we need to look like the Fighting Sioux and not get our butts handed to us by anyone.

If you look at their records, they really haven't had much need, but Bob Babich at 46-22 over 6 years was forced out. Before him was Rocky Hager at 91-25 and before him Earl Solomanson at 24-2-1 and Don Morton at 57-15. The Bison are notoriously restless at any sign of being less than competative. Hager was fired more for personal issues, but even at 91-25 he was getting criticism in his last year when he went 6-4. The Bison nation is in no way shape or form patient with their football team. If you think the Bison would for one minute put up with a defense like we put on the field last year without heads rolling you are delusional.

Not necessarily arguing with giving Muss some time, but using the Bison as an example of a patient program doesn't help make your case.

Seriously - you are telling me that the Bison are a patient fan base? He was on the hot seat two years after back to back 10-1 seasons and only a run deep into the playoffs got him off. I know you think Muss deserves more time, but you need at least one foot in reality.

So patience is what makes programs great. I guess that's why the Bison have had so much success. They seem to be a very patient bunch.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - the Pat Burns era gave us 6 years of mediocrity and it took forever to dig out. I'm not saying a new coach every year.

I think you are right about the team being hungry and hope they have a fantastic year - we do have some massive improving to do in some areas from last year. I call BS on this year being the second year that counts, however. This will be Muss's 6th year and all of the previous years should be steadily building and improving to bring us to this year. I'm just plain not not willing to give him 10 years to break the bonds of mediocrity. The time is now to get the crowds back and re-establish a winning tradition. I'm not saying that Muss can't do it - I'm saying he needs to do it soon.

In my opinion we have the most important first five games that we have had in many years. Now is the time to re-establish North Dakota Football at this level. We need to be competative and to put a team on the field that plays Fighting Sioux Football. We can get the buzz and excitement back or we can lose many fans for a long while. Muss has been at the helm for long enough to not have any excuses. I am optimistic about this season - we have a talent influx that should make a difference. My biggest worry is mediocrity - just good enough to keep the status quo but not a breakout season. We can show that we are a force or we can have a lost decade or more of Sioux football. Time to make our mark. Time for a signature win. Anyone else tired of the smugness of the fans down south? Well, let's do something to get our team going.

It's not hate, but it's time to get it done.

Not saying that at all - I love it when the Sioux are gritty - I just meant that I am really tired of our endless cycle

Wow - this young bunch of talent brings amazing opportunities for coaches to coach. Defense - let's turn into a unit to be feared instead of the eratic group from last year. Goalies - we have three with good credentials - I hope someone takes a leap forward and claims the job - it's certainly open to any of the three. I was disappointed no one claimed it last year. Offense - Please, let's get out of the damned corners and go up and down for once - Use our talent. Time for Hak to evolve as a coach.

You, Sir, are a true historian.

Wow, that's a pretty long time to prove himself and get things done. I worry about a lost decade or more if we don't get things going (which I think we will). In addition to record I think how we look will be pretty important to the fan base. If we get blown out on the line on both sides of the ball and tackle like we did last year I think we can expect quite a bit of grumbling. I think we have the talent to have a very good season, but I feel this is a make or break year for the coaches - we need to show that we can compete with the best talent in the league and not lay down like last year. I am cautiously optomistic.

Actually, we were talking about getting it done when you have the talent.

That'd be kind of like having Oshie, Toews, and Duncan (the Hoby Baker winner) on a college hockey line.

Agree 100% - I couldn't believe how soft we played at times. We didn't have a real puck-moving defensive corps either - unless you count Gleeson who sometimes just skated around until he lost the puck. I'm not sure if this is a change in philosophy or just due to the personnel we had, but having watched old time Sioux Hockey for 40+ years, I was disappointed in this style of play.

Challenge accepted - Best tradition - 5 championships in the 25 years before Hak took over - next closest is Lake Superior State with 3 Best fans - top 1 or 2 in home attendence and always sold out - name one team who's fans travel better Best arena - name a better one

Of course no one thinks that having a nice arena guarantees success - that's why we have a coaching staff - that's their job. However, almost everyone but you thinks that having the best tradition, the best arena, and the best fans certainly doesn't hurt and probably helps in recruiting. Bringing a recruit to a game at the Ralph when the Sioux are rocking has to be somewhat impressive. The Ralph is icing on the cake, but hey, icing tastes pretty good. Sioux fans need to keep their expectations high.

Funny how you can be all over a local high school coach while giving hell to anyone who suggests Mussman has done a less than stellar job at UND so far (kick the f'ing field goal Muss)

Anyone else still blaming bad luck?

Odds are high that we will have a very good team but play the cycle and come up short in the tourney. Many posters here will talk about how hard it is to win in this format and state that once we win one they will come in bunches.

Nice summary - seems to me like we are looking a lot to dump and chase first, carry it in second. Maybe it is my blind spot, but our continual cycle drives me nuts. I understand the theory and have seen it work ok, but to me its time has come and gone. I don't see this carrying us to #8. I feel about this about like I feel about the 3 yards and a cloud of dust football offense - can it be effective - even demoralizing - you bet. Can you be successful at the highest level and compete with a team like Oregon - not so much. Sad to say, but it looks like the old WCHA is becoming like Big 10 football - not quite with the times and it shows. Since the all WCHA final it has been steadily downhill.

Agreed they played strong and were hard to play against - didn't see a lot of dump, chase, and cycle though