iramurphy

Your problem, Dave, is that you call anything you don't like lies. You don't wish to be confused by the facts and neither do others on your keep the name website. Here are a couple of facts as best I can summarize for you and any of the others who are leading the charge that will hurt UND athletics and UND as an institution.. UND is a voluntary member of the NCAA. Over 400 members voted to ban Native American names, logos and mascots. Less than 10 members voted to support them. UND spent over $1,000,000 trying to save the name. The SBoHE, UND Alumni and supporters of UND fought for years to try and save the name. Many Native Americans support keeping the name and have tried to be supportive. Both tribes were given an opportunity to make their wishes known and their preference a reality back in 2005. Had one of the two tribes stated clearly to the NCAA that they as a tribe supported the name it would not be the issue we face today and UND alumni would have saved alot of money. When neither of them did that, the NCAA declared UND on the sanction list. Then UND, The SBoHE tried to sue the NCAA to force them to let us keep the name. It was clear to attorneys including the Attorney General, that UND would win the intitial lawsuit because the NCAA didn't follow their own policy. It was also clear we were screwing the proverbial dead horse because they would then follow their own policies and do the same thing and we would then lose litigation. UND and the SBoHE and the Attorney General got them to extend the deadline for UND and UND only. It did require both tribes to grant approval. During the additional time UND and SBoHE officials attempted to communicate and negotiate with Standing Rock Tribal Officials who restated their opposition to the name. That has been consistent since the late 1990's. They also refused to meet with UND or SBoHE officials over time. The lies you refer to are the claim that UND or the SBoHE did nothing. The lies are that the tribes haven't been given a chance to "come to the table". They were given a chance to have their way and weren't required to come to the table. They were given the opportunity for discussion and negotiation over the years and the tribal officials weren't interested. Those are facts. It is also a fact that Standing Rock has not allowed their members to vote on the issue. That is their business and if their tribal members wish to do so then they can lobby their elected officials or elect new ones. It is stupid to claim they have no voice. Their elected officials made clear they want the name to go away and the tribal members hwve done nothing to change that stance. That is how their governement works, not how you or I or Fetch, or Frank think it should be done. It is a fact that our membership in the Big Sky looks good for this year. It is also a fact that UND has been cautioned by their league commisioner that this issue could jeopardize our future with the league. It is a fact that Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and S. Dak. State won't play us as long as we are sanctioned. It is a fact that there are new reprots that the AC may not play us as long as we are on the sanctions list. It is a fact that many recruits for all sports look at future games and schedules as they determine the factors when it comes to recruiting. Beloning to a league and who we play and where and how we travel are important factors. What kind of sports are available and who the opposing teams are, are a factor for fans when they consider going to games and supporting our teams. That is also a factor for some non-athletes when they consider where they will go to college. I know this because many years ago I was the Director of High School relations at UND and before that coached FB at UND and was involved with recruiting. Those of you who don't think this is a factor just don't know what you are talking about. Losing the ability to host playoffs is detrimental to our athletic teams. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant. For those who think hockey only and that this won't hurt hockey give some thought to maybe our best incoming recruit Jordan Schmalz. If his Dad and uncles didn't play FB at UND there isn't much chance he would be coming. He had committed to Wisconsin. Will that occur very often? Probably not but with recruiting for hockey at this level we need every advantage and can't afford to lose one kid over this issue. Many former UND athletes and coaches as well as present UND athletes and coaches are telling you we need to vote yes for UND athletics. The Booster club, the Alumni association, UND student leaders, and the vast majority of former athletes and coaches and alumni who have a clear understanding of this issue, are very clear we need to vote yes. We need your help and it can in fact affect outcome of games more than anything else you have done. UND staff, students and Alumni have travled to Fargo and Minot to help with flood fighting and disasters amd will dontinue to do so regardless of the outcome of this issue. Do us all a favor in the meantime and vote yes for UND. Vote yes for UND athletics. Vote yes to prevent a potential disaster to UND.

I have never said Native Governments have allowed their people to have a voice in this. UND, the SBoHE or the state of N.Dak. have no authority to make the tribal government let anyone have a voice. The Native American people can do that if they wish. Thus far, not enough of them wish to change things. What I said was, that they as tribal goverments were given a chance to voice their opinions. In 2005 all it would have taken was one or the other to fulfill the NCAA requirments to give UND permission to use the name and neither of them did so. Whether or not Natives feel they have been heard on any issue important to them including this one is none of our business and the way they can change that is to vote someone else into office. That fact won't change no matter how this particular issue is resolved. Spirt Lake and Standing Rock have their own governing bodies and they and they alone can change how that works. This is only one issue and voting one way or another on this measure won't get them a voice on their tribal councils nor will it change what the tribal council says or does. The NCAA has made it very clear this vote is irrelevant to them. This is not about standing up to anyone. This is about disagreeing with the vast majority of NCAA members and then defying their decisions. Native elders have been heard on the issue and they seem to have been very supportive of the name as best I can tell and from those who have chosen to get involved. These individuals do not have the authority to speak for their respective tribal governments just like I don't have the authority to speak for mine. What I did say and it is accurate is that those tribes had ample opportunity to speak up and be involved in this whole process over the years. Some elders and others who supported the name did exanctly that and UND officials did a number of things to try and sway the NCAA over the years and to sway the tribal governments. Obviously it didn't work. The elders would understand the term "we are kicking a dead horse". The NCAA doesnt' care whether or not they are heard and the NCAA has a legal right to that decision. The NCAA is a private organization and over 400 members voted to get rid of Native Names. The NCAA has made it clear the vote on this measure is irrelevant to them. Those of you who think this is a civil rights issue don't understand the rights of a private organization. I don't agree with the NCAA and don't care for how they run the organziation. Unfortunately for me, the NCAA and the members don't care what I think. Same goes for the tribal elders and the rest of us. If the name goes away nothing changes in the lives of Native peoples. If the name stays it puts UND athletics in a postion whereby there are factors we can't control that may put our teams and coaches at a competitive disadvantage. Those of us who have been in the coaching business and recruiting business over time are trying to tell people the facts. Guys like Purpur, Hakstol, Charilie Bridgeford, Tim O'Keefe, and the whole host of former UND athletes and coaches who have realized the potential harm to UND have asked us to vote yes. They have a lot more credibility than the former 4th line hockey player and an unknown attorney from Minot. Their website simply declares what they wish as fact and anyone who tries to respond with a counter point based on historical facts and evidence contrary to their stance is called a lier. Pretty easy to see we need to Vote yes for UND and vote yes for the future of UND athletics.

This is a great example of how misinformation has allowed someone to form an opinion and would vote based on what he or she may believe is an honorable reason but hurts UND. All tribes had an opportunity to have their voices heard. The Standing Rock Tribal Officials wouldn't respond to UND officials on a number of occasions and when they did their answer was they were opposed to UND keeping the name. The people of Standing Rock had ample opportunity over the years to elect representatives who would have supported the name. They did not. The Spirit Lake Tribe also had an opportunity to speak out on behalf of UND in 2005 and had they done so the name would be there without sanctions. "These people" you refer to had ample and multiple opportunites to speak out. There were open forums and there were committees over the years. There have been many opportunites to participate in the discussions. The agreement with the NCAA involved the parties with "a horse in the race". UND, the State of N.Dak. and the NCAA. Whether or not we wanted to sit at that table or wanted someone else including Tribal Officials to sit at the table, is not something we can force on the NCAA nor the courts. (The courts just decided that). The SBoHE fought to keep the name until it became clear the NCAA was not going to allow them to keep the name without approval of the tribes. That was another opportunity for the tribes to have their "voices" heard. At some point the SBoHE relaized the futility of trying to force our opinion on the NCAA and have been trying to retire the name once we were unable to get those "voices" you refer to to be heard and approve the name. Vote however you wish, but learn what the heck you are talking about before you make a decision. Misinformed voters like you could very well hurt UND athletics beyond repair. NDSU, SDSU, recently joined the growing list of schools who are heeding the recommendatin from the NCAA that no NCAA school schedule UND. The possibility (not certainty) that UND will be removed from the Big Sky is real. To vote against UND because groups of people didn't care enough to take action when they had the chance is not a good reason in my opinion. As time goes by there is something new every month providing more evidence of how keeping the name will hurt UND and UND athletics. Anyone foolish enough to believe it won't hurt UND hockey as well is just palin foolish. The people who matter most in this discussion are not the people of Standing Rock and Spirit Lake. It is the student athletes, the students, the fans, the alumni and the rest of the UND community that will be directly affected and hurt by the NCAA sanctions.

Cary Eades is only one of the UND coaches. Good recruiting is a result of many factors. The head coach and the assistants are a recriuting team and have a team strategy.. The players you have on your team and how they interact with the recruits is a huge factor. The quality of the facilities. The reputation of the program. The quality of the academic institution. The location of the school and in many cases the chances of the kid playing and whether or not he thinks the chances of playing in the NHL are enhanced by his college choice. As far as our recruiting dropping off I am not sure I agree. Nelson was a great recruit. Grimaldi is a great recruit. The kid who changed his mind and played Juniors in Canada was a good recruit. The Schmalz kid coming in is a big time recruit. Forberg, Kristo are blue chip kids. Kids who left early like Gregoire or Hextall. You can go down the list and most colleges would be very happy with the kids UND has had recently and has coming in. Don't know why Eades is moving on but Brad Berry was not the only UND recruiter at the time nor was Eades recently. For those who don't think UND's schedule has anything to do with recruiting, the breakup of the WCHA and the loss of the Gophers and Badgers on our future schedules are a negative rather than a positive. That makes the recruiting job a bit harder. Recruting and the choices kids 16-19 make are based on different factors for different kids. Any small factor may be enough to move a kid to or away from a school. Not sure how Eades factors into that.

I believe it is accurate to say Altru has come through with a sizable donation and UND has about $15.6 million pledged thus far. This facility project should start picking up speed. The Sanford donation offer was there. The biggest problem with the athletic training issue is the orthopedic coverage. UND is covered well by Altru with Drs Mann and Greek and the Family Medicine residents for primary care. 90% of athletic injuries are taken care of by the athletic trainers and 90% of the rest can be taken care of by primary care physicians with Sports Medicine experience. UND has that covered well right now. There is not a consistent ortho referral pattern and Sanford has no orthopedic surgeons in EGF or GF so that makes it tougher for Sanford to upgrade. Sanford has an excellent Ortho staff and multiple physicians with Sports Medicine training and experience. Getting the Sports Medicine contract was the center point of the $10,000,000 donation. I believe Sanford would like to develop a collaborative relationship with the UND med school and be the provider of Sports Medicine. The Altru donation probably puts a damper on those wishes.

Still Army-Navy.

Mollberg scored 20 in first round loss to DeLaSalle. Lakers couldn't get outside game going and LaBatt had some foul trouble and wasn't a factor offensively. Labatt rebounded well and outjumped the 6' 6" kid for the opening tip off by about 4 inches. He is a grat athlete and brings some options for where to play him. On a sad note, Mollberg's cousin fell off a horse yesterday and was flown to twin cities with serious head injury. Keep her in your prayers.

Is that the same as the AC? Did they change their name? Hard to keep up with all the changes in college sports these days.

You make a good point. I don't get to coffee often and I live in Minnesota so these guys aern't going to help donate. I still have to work. 4 figure donations are big donations and we can't afford to lose those donors. Read my post. I didn't make my comment personal on purpose, I just think we are way past blaming UND and UND administration for this mess, especially the ones who are there now. The enemy is the NCAA and the problem is the referendums and the proposed legislation that will handcuff UND.

I knew that but easier to change Uniforms than arenas.

Too easy. Army-Navy.

I think you are correct in your concerns about the future of UND hockey. The prestige of the WCHA without UND, Minnesota, Denver, CC, UMD and Wisconsin is not the same. That same prestige is not yet associated with the NCHC. That is why it is important to continue to schedule the Big 10 schools. The name is not the factor. Indiana didn't lose their name and they were already struggling before they dumped Knight. Aren't they playing Kentucky in the S16 today? I don't know that I would call that "just another team". The name isn't UND hockey and the name isn't UND athletics. We will be fine without it. For those of you who are superstitious, UND has never won an NCAA title wearing the present logo uniforms no matter what the color of the hockey sweater. We win with these new uni's, and we will have half of the hockey fans converted on that factor alone.

Continued: I believe UND alumni, most GF community and business leaders, most athletes and coaches (past and present) no longer support keeping the name at all costs. .I believe the majority of Native Americans at Spirit Lake and possibly still at Standing Rock do support keeping the name but not so many if it means harm to UND and UND athletics. Too many of the zealots lost your credibility when you weren't willing to lose a hockey game over the issue. It means you don't want UND and the athletes to pay the price for something out of their control and I agree. Chewey is the exception. He would take the loss. I disagree, but at least he is a man of his convictions. I have gotten to the point of lets win the hockey game. This competition is the purpose of intercollegiate athletics. Yababy you haven't offered any solutions. IF you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Shawn O, let me know what you supposedly are going to refuse to donate each year and I will verify it with UND and then find someone to help me cover it. IF people aren't smart enough to see this is not the doing of UND or UND athletics then they just aren't very smart. If you want to punish UND athletes and coaches for things they have no control over then good riddance. Really what is so important about this particular name. It isn't about the Native Americans, they didn't step up when one tribe could have resolved this in 2005. It isn't Kelly, Faison Thomas or Kupchella. They are a cowards target. The enemy is still the NCAA, They are a private organization that voted over 400 to 6 to support this policy, YA baby go negotiate with them, but you maybe haven't noticed some pretty talented people and about $1,000,000 have failed to convince the NCAA, What makes you think more legislation (already tried and failed) or a lawsuit (courts have previously ruled in the favor of NCAA having the right to make their own rules and if you don't like them leave). This is a waste of time, resources and emotional energy. Lets go cheer on our hockey team. Go Sioux!

We no longer have "overwhelming support" for the name. I believe

Not sure what the announcement will be. Kelly promised some of the FB recruits we would be breaking ground on the practice facility this year. Altru is supposedly finalizing some sort of donation but I don't know what it is for. That is long past due and in my opinion anything less than $10,000,000 isn't enough. They apparently raised enough fuss to convince Kelly and Wynne to decline the $10,000,000 Sanford donation which would have gotten phase started.

In 2005 FSU had the same requirements UND did. Get one tribe to support you. FSU, Utah and Central Michigan all got a representative tribe to support them. We didn't I am not sure why you think they needed help from their legislators unless there is evidence that is how they got the tribal support.

No they couldn't. Not sure what the NCAA would do, but I would not let anyone associated with UND officials, the team, cheerleaders or band have anything with Native American imagery. Not worth the chance and it would accomplish nothing. The team should not give any of this a thought, They need to focus on the games at hand. This is no longer a hockey team issue. Their job is to play hockey and they need to stay focused on that. The fans may do whatever we like. I am pretty sure Hakstol and the coaches are focused on winning and won't waste their time with the logo issue.

I would hope we have more intelligence than to have to rely on the "F bomb" to make our point. It lacks class and would be evidence we are a bunch of buffoons.

You are correct (thus more evidence that the name and logo are irrelevant to winning games). As Al Davis said "just win baby". These kids will play in practice jerseys, I don't think they really care, they need to be focused on the game and playing their best hockey of the season.

So should I say "baa baa baa" ? Are we dedicated to keeping the name or not ? If this is about standing up to the NCAA and fighting for the rights of Native Americans then lets stand up and take a bullet for the cause. Otherwise, I don't think you or I should be telling the athletes and the school how much or how little they are going to be hurt. The sanctions as they stand will indeed hurt. Potential loss of playoff games is a big deal. Our MBB team beat two teams in the tournament this year. Our womens team was pretty darn good. Our FB team was 8-3 and will be a better team against better competition next fall. The battle should continue but not at the expense of what the sanctions do to UND athletics and UND. The thought of forfeiting a hockey playoff game is no more ridiculous than giving up home FB sites. Will the NCAA screw with us when it comes to pairings and selection for different sports? Not sure how they can, but do you trust them and is it worth the risk? Name is not more important to hockey fans than other fans. The name has been part of UND FB before the hockey team existed. Errol Mann the former UND kicker who played in the NFL for a number of years was irate when he read Dale Lennon's letter recommending we drop the name. This is not and has never been a hockey issue. My goofy idea of wearing logo jerseys and taking the hit was to show some of you the sanctions are real and they will hurt. If the sanctions were that we can't wear the logo for playoffs I would say keep the name. Because it involves giving up home playoff advantage for FB or other sports and Women's hockey, that in and by itself makes it unacceptable. The damage is too much. Let SL take the NCAA to court but keep the friggin politicians and mandates out of the equation. Once you mandate keeping the name through legislation, then we don't have the flexibility to fix things if we need to.

We always need those guys who will do anything for the team. Dirty job but someones got to do it.

Standing up to the NCAA and accepting a forfeit would destroy UND hockey. If UND would be crazy enough to wear the logo jerseys and accept the forfeit, we would have kids jump ship off this present team and we would lose committed recruits. We would have trouble ever returning to the quality of team we have been. You would really see UND hockey tradition destroyed by this issue. The name and logo are clearly not UND hockey nor UND athletics but only a very small part of the tradition of UND athletics. It is the players, the coaches, the fans, the University and the Alumni and communities that support us that make up the tradition. Having said that, I will wear my logo gear just like I always do.

I have no doubt in my mind those jerks would require UND to forfeit the Saturday game and I wouldn't take a chance. It isn't that easy to get this far. As you noted new jerseys without the logo will likely create some discussion.

Well then Chewey, I respect your opinion. I disagree cuz I was an athlete and I would want to compete and win a National title and I would rather wear no logo than lose a game forfeiting the game rather than making a team earn it. I would rather have someone else fight with the politicians and the NCAA because we aren't on a level playing field, but good for you. Your points are well taken. The NCAA does little for the multiple violations we see in D1 athletics but punishes a school for trying to honor citizens of the state in a respectful manner. Load of crap, but thus far the courts seem to agree they have the power. Go Sioux!

After all of the accusations from Frank Burgraff, Fetch, Dave K. and friends I would like to pose a question. Is this really about the downtrodden Native Americans and their rights? Are we really going to stand up to the NCAA? Those of us who have been called cowards or sheep because we see the bigger picture and the importance of putting UND and UND athletics in a better postion to succeed have decided no matter how we feel about the name, the risk is too real. Will those of you who claim this is more important than UND athletics, demand UND wear the logo jerseys for the upcoming NCAA playoffs and then accept the NCAA penalty of forfeiting the game? If UND would wear the logo jerseys it would do more than anything thus far, to bring this to a national level and expose the NCAA hypocrisy. Can you imagine the media madness if a University made such a stand against the biased policies of the NCAA and was willing to risk a National Championship in order to make our point and stand up for the rights of the Sioux nation? If you would do that , then I may disagree, but I respect your opinion no matter how misguided and you have the courage of your convictions. I would like Frank Burgraff to publically demand UND wear the jerseys if he really believes in this cause. Otherwise he is just a mouthy 4th line aggitator and loses his credibility. Are you folks dedicated to this issue or not? If so, you should be calling for UND to wear the logo jerseys as a matter of principle. If not, then you are not committed to the cause and just making noise. To be willing to let the punishments hurt others and not you or your favorite team, would be cowardice in my book . Otherwise, it is clearly time to drop the name and move on and I am not sure I know of a better example to try and get some of you to see what is at stake. On a personal note Fetch, if you are going to the regionals and still want that beer, I buy you that beer and a few more as long as you don't drive me nuts. I'll be at Embassy Suites