iramurphy

I have no doubt in my mind those jerks would require UND to forfeit the Saturday game and I wouldn't take a chance. It isn't that easy to get this far. As you noted new jerseys without the logo will likely create some discussion.

Well then Chewey, I respect your opinion. I disagree cuz I was an athlete and I would want to compete and win a National title and I would rather wear no logo than lose a game forfeiting the game rather than making a team earn it. I would rather have someone else fight with the politicians and the NCAA because we aren't on a level playing field, but good for you. Your points are well taken. The NCAA does little for the multiple violations we see in D1 athletics but punishes a school for trying to honor citizens of the state in a respectful manner. Load of crap, but thus far the courts seem to agree they have the power. Go Sioux!

After all of the accusations from Frank Burgraff, Fetch, Dave K. and friends I would like to pose a question. Is this really about the downtrodden Native Americans and their rights? Are we really going to stand up to the NCAA? Those of us who have been called cowards or sheep because we see the bigger picture and the importance of putting UND and UND athletics in a better postion to succeed have decided no matter how we feel about the name, the risk is too real. Will those of you who claim this is more important than UND athletics, demand UND wear the logo jerseys for the upcoming NCAA playoffs and then accept the NCAA penalty of forfeiting the game? If UND would wear the logo jerseys it would do more than anything thus far, to bring this to a national level and expose the NCAA hypocrisy. Can you imagine the media madness if a University made such a stand against the biased policies of the NCAA and was willing to risk a National Championship in order to make our point and stand up for the rights of the Sioux nation? If you would do that , then I may disagree, but I respect your opinion no matter how misguided and you have the courage of your convictions. I would like Frank Burgraff to publically demand UND wear the jerseys if he really believes in this cause. Otherwise he is just a mouthy 4th line aggitator and loses his credibility. Are you folks dedicated to this issue or not? If so, you should be calling for UND to wear the logo jerseys as a matter of principle. If not, then you are not committed to the cause and just making noise. To be willing to let the punishments hurt others and not you or your favorite team, would be cowardice in my book . Otherwise, it is clearly time to drop the name and move on and I am not sure I know of a better example to try and get some of you to see what is at stake. On a personal note Fetch, if you are going to the regionals and still want that beer, I buy you that beer and a few more as long as you don't drive me nuts. I'll be at Embassy Suites

It seems the idea has the AC pissants excited and they are calling some guy named Ira names (go figure). UND doesn't blame the issue on the AC. UND and the SBoHE wants to move on. We didn't get the required approval from the tribes and have been trying to retire the name. The legislature and some of our citizens are trying mandate UND keep the name. It isn't right for the NCAA to sanction UND for things out of their control. What the NCAA did in the southern states, whose legislators mandated continued use of the rebel flag, was to sanction the state . Some AC fans consider similar action against the state of N. Dak. preposterous and think it is a good idea to support the petitioners and the referendum. They may wish to rethink that one. I doubt the NCAA would go that far, but if the NCAA wants to put the issue to rest once and for all that is likely all it would take on their part. Fans of both schools and U of Mary and Minot would vote against it. The AC folks may consider that trying to screw UND athletics may not be worth all the fun they are having. The NCAA is private organization run by University presidents. I wouldn't bet on anything it may or may not do.

The petition to change the constitution is the dangerous one. That would give the legislature the legal authority they don't ha Sorry I was referring to two posts from yesterday but most of you shoudl get my point.

These last two posts hit the nail on he head. The NCAA will penalize UND and should be penalizing the State of N. Dak. I would recommend a letter writing campaign to the NCAA leadership asking them to come out publically stating the sanctions will be against all NCAA schools in the state of N. Dak. similar to the southern states with the rebel flags. That should get our pals from the AC to re-think what a dumb move it is to vote to support or sign these petitions. That should also garner help from the Bismarck area because U of Mary would be penalized as well. UND has done everthing it was supposed to do. Time to get political with the politicians.

Load of crap Dave. Lets make an appointment with Mussman and if he states you are correct, then I will donate $1,000 to the program on the spot. If he doesn't then you agree to leave Siouxsports.com and work to retire the name. As a former UND athlete and coach we do not want people associated with the program that would mistate the facts like you did. If you are so sure of your "inside sources" then PC me and I will make the arrangements. otherwise quit the crap. Being dishonest only hurts your cause. If you would rather, we can make the same appointment with Hakstol after the season. He has more important priorities right now than to meet with a couple of rubes like us til after the season.

Ok Fetch,I'll buy. Would be worth the price of a few of your favorite cold ones to see if you really exist. (don't bring your guns though).

Don't tell me someone has let you have guns, Fetch!!!!

Dog crap and the name are not related. My point is that the host doesn't want us coming in to their house with something they don't wish to clean up, but having said that, I stand corrected I could have used a better analogy. Thanks for the heads up.

So I get what the name has done for Native Americans. (Programming, marketing value, etc.). What has the name done for UND??? Over the years unless someone has tried to take it away no one has really paid much attention to the name. We use it as a logo and name. It has cost us a lot of money, heartache and criticism. We have put up with that over the last 45 years. It isn't that those from the outside don't understand, they don't believe us and they don't care. In their world, they don't wish to associate with this particular ethnic group and have the legal authority to dictate that we can't either. I believe that is a biased policy but they don't care about my opinion anymore than you do. Those who could have helped us were too late. Now they are willing to hurt UND athletics to try and recapture what they didn't care enough about to act on when it would have made a difference. You aren't going to be part of the conference the athletes, coaches and UND is. That conference wants us to get our act together before we come on board and that isn't asking too much. Fetch if you have been walikng around in dog !@#$, it isn't unreasonable for your host to expect you to take your shoes off or clean them before you enter their house.

Dave, What they do is not illegal. There is no law preventing them from doing what they do. Their authority has been challenged in courts before and the courts decided in their favor. The NCAA is not a government entity. It is a private organization that makes their own rules. We don't like the rules and I understand that you think this is so important to some that we should drop athletics rather than play by their rules, but stick to the facts. What they do is not illegal.

Not sure how you can even have an opinion when you are so misinformed. The Great West is disbanding. Who is the dumbass who tells you stupid stuff like the sanctions are temporary? Anyone who is smart enough to use a computer should be smarter than that. The only people I can say "OK I disagree but you are entitiled to that opinion", are those who have a clear understanding of the facts and that UND would need to move to the NAIA to have any intercollegiate athletics and still think calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux is more important.They don't care if our hockey team sinks to a level of those teams who make the playoffs every 25 years and our other athletic teams play Dickinson State, Minot State, or Jamestown College. If you don't get that, then you shouldn't have forged an opinion quite yet. Get the facts first. Losing Track Meets, Home hockey playoffs for women or losing recruits in all sports are not small. Ask any coach across the country if they can afford to have a couple of down recruiting years and everyone of them will tell you they can't. Don't be so goofy!

Where will they find you to tell you?? (I doubt that would even make a difference). The people who matter most with regards to the NCAA sanctions are the UND athletes, coaches, students, boosters, fans, University employees, Alumni and the Grand Forks and N.Dak. communities. Taht does include our reservations, but they don't have the biggest stake in this issue and they didn't care enough about it to speak out when in 2005 they could have stated their support and we would not be sanctioned. There was nothing you or I could have done because the NCAA makes the rules.This issue is about the name for the athletic teams. No more and no less. Why would you conclude someone would be spineless because they don't wish to spend time and resources screwing a dead horse (or pissing into the wind if you prefer)? Give us an opponent and something on the line and most of us will fight. Who do you wish to fight? The NCAA says they are not going to fight, they are going to declare themselves rulers and make the rules. No one to fight! (Not sure most of us care to be called spineless by people who probably have never had to lay it on the line when it counted).

No, the name doesn't stay. We are talking about athletic teams, not the rights of the oppressed around the world. If UND is to remain one of the finest institutions of higher education in the upper midwest, we also benefit from quality atheltic and music programs. If we don't have a conference for virtually all sports and we handicap hockey, then we are placing barriers to the success of the programs. The name is irrelevant to that success and always has been. It has been a big part of what we as athletes and fans identify with but the traditions and the energy from the fans is about the teams, players and our ability as fans to identify with their successes or even failures. we will still be able to do that after the name is gone. We will still wear whatever jersey or logo we wish. The enemy is not UND, the SBoHE, or for that matter even most of those who prefer to keep the name. It is the NCAA and we are in their yard playing with their ball and we play by their rules. The vast majority of UND fans and alumni when they are given the facts, see this and are concerned that too many well meaning people, led by those who have strong but misguided convictions will lead to a disaster. With regards to the rights of our Native American friends, they didnt' move on the issue when it would have taken only one tribe, nor in the three years they had after the NCAA gave us a temporary reprieve. They have sat on the sidelines until their only recourse is litigation. They need to leave UND uot of it. I hope they succeed agaisnt the NCAA but the courts have ruled over the years that the NCAA is a private club and you don't ahve to belong. Play by thier rules or join the NAIA. Anyone who thinks hockey as we know it will survive NCAA sanctions is fooling themselves. That is OK just don't try and fool others with unfounded statements. Go Sioux! Easy to still say, the NCAA can't stop any of us from our right to free speech. I will wear my Sioux logos this weekend at the hockey games. Won't matter to our team or the NCAA. Just isn't a priority to our teams. It is more so an issue with our hockey franternity because of the gratitude we all have for the Englestad family and their gifts to UND. The arena next door for BB and VB is also a gift from the Englestad family.

Joe Mollberg scored 23 against Grand Rapids last week and Brian Labatt rejected a couple of key shots from their 6'7" post player last week to lead Detroit Lakes to a win over one of the top ranked teams in Minnesota. With those points, Mollberg becomes the leading scorer in DL history. Earlier this year Labatt became the leading rebounder in DL history. These two guys could be pretty special for UND in the years to come. Both great kids and great athletes. (Mollberg's girlfriend needs 2 points to hit the 1000 point mark in Thursday's playoff game against TRF to become one of the leading scorers in DL girls history. She is the daughter of former UND All-American FB player Paul Muckenhirn and she also will attend UND but won't be playing FB).

I was told that one of the UND FB alumni was buying them.

It's that simple only for the simple minded, David.

Has nothing to do with integrity. There are people on both sides of this issue, even those radicals on both sides who have integrity. The minunderstanding of this issue and associating the importance of this name or a fight with a private organization making rules we don't like is not the same as the civil war, the civil rights movement, or the atrocities of WWII. There are those with no integrity but not because of their stance on this issue. You want to take a stance for what is right, how about taking a stance against the politicians who are using UND as a pawn in their private battle to gain control of the SBoHE? Keep in mind the constitution does in fact protect the SBoHE for this exact reason.

Watched game on NBC Cable Sports network. One of more impressive games from Sioux in years. Similar to last year in Regions when we beat Denver 6-1. Outhustled, out hit and clearly outplayed Denver until the last 5 minutes. Lamoureaux's and Pattyn's penalties were inexcusable when we should have had a power play earlier in game . Junior hockey crap. We went into a defensive shell after our fourth goal and lost our edge and our focus. We should have stayed agressive. Don't know if that was our plan or it just happened. We got out of position defensively on their second goal and Lamoureaux left his man on the face off on Zucker's goal at the end to leave Eidsness against a great shooter at point blank range. Where did he think he was going? It will be interesting to see if we can start tonight like we did last night rather than start how we finished, This team plays the rest of the year like they did most of this game and they will be tough for anyone to beat.They play like they did the last 5 minutes and take stupid penalties it will be tough. This time of year we can't have those 5 minute lapses.

Then you will be stuck at home watching the Raiders on TV. If UND gets sanctioned and we lose recruits (evidence presented by Lennon that is already occuring}, we don't get into the Big Sky ( I think we probably will, but there is a real threat as outlined by Fullerton), we lose games.(aleady occuring) then you won't have a team to call the Fighting Sioux. UND alumni aren't going to spend money to support an NAIA school which seems to be what you prefer. UND fans would rather see quality athletic events in a quality conference than watch UND play Crookston, Minot State, U of Mary etc. Not sure why it seems so difficult to see that. Maybe after watching the Raiders the last few years you see those schools as a step up?

That would work for those who sold their soul to the Fighting Sioux in the first place and very few of us are that stupid. You talk as if the NCAA didn't give us an out. They did and we didn't take advantage of that in 2005 when we only needed one tribe for the ok.. You were likely sitting in your living room watching your Raiders because you weren't doing anything to help the rest of us. They didn't "back us into a corner" they simply told us the party is by invitation only and because it is their party, there is a dress code and we have to wear a tuxedo. We asked if we could wear a suit and tie and they said we could beut we had to show up on time and we had to have a date. We didnt' show up on time with the date so they said then we had to wear a tuxedo. We had the opportunity to come to their party as invited and neither UND, the State of N.Dak.nor the Tribal councils showed up properly dressed and on time. We showed up late with a sport coat and turtle neck and no date and asked if we could get in. They said OK but then we had to go home and dress in a suit and tie and bring two dates but had to be there before midnight. We didn't do that either. Now we sit outside looking in and we are no longer welcome on those terms. We can still party with these folks but we are going to have to wear the tuxedo and begging or threatening to crash their party doesn't work. I tried to make a simple analogy for the simple folks who don't get it. This has nothing to do with the ultimate sacrifice. If you really believe that Dave, put down the remote and get out and explore the world. Don't forget to turn the tV off.

No it wouldn't. We are better off in the Big Sky. So would the other Dakota Schools in the long run, but time will tell.There is more flexibility there and we also need to be prepared to move FB up if the opportunity arises. If Montana goes, we should go. Not going to happen in the near future, but we can't get caught short like we did before. There are a lot of kids who like the idea of going to a smaller school in a smaller community and competing at the highest level. UND and NDSU need to be prepared to make that move if the opportunity arises.

What about North Dakota "Spirit". It embodies the Spirit of the Fighting Sioux Spirit and the name could have meaning to our Native American brethren. It embodies the Spirit of those settlers and pioneers who braved the elements and killed Bison to survive the frozen cold of the prarie. Whether or not we make it the Fighting Spirit or simply Spirit could be food for thought. Spirit would embody the Spirit of those who have come before us. Ira Friendberg. Red Jarrett. Jake Stocker. Fritz Pollard. Arjan Gelling. Not just Cliff Purpur but Al Purpur who took care of the athletic fields and the hockey arena when we played at the "old barn". The Pudenz sisters and Jenny Crouse and Sherry Kleinsasser. It would embody not only the spirit of John Noah and Ralph Englestad but also chester Fritz and Kenny Hyslop. It would embody the Spirit of the fans like the Burfennings and Jack Gray. It would remind us that guys like Jeff "Jeff-Jeff" Anderson who was the consumate Sioux fan and although had special needs was one of the first donors when money was raised for the first Englestad Arena. It would embody the Spirit of baseball players like Gary Royal and Corey Nyhus and the Koch brother and Bruce Daucsavage. The wrestlers and Swimmers and Cross Country and Track athletes who were All-Americans or simply role players who helped make those All Americans who they are. . It would embody the Spirit of those who have fought hard for the name and still fight for it. We could get Ben Brien the artist who did the logo to redo one with that Spirit in mind. If the NCAA were to ever relent we could revert back to the Fighting Sioux if we get the blessing of the tribes and an assurance we won't face penalties. In a way we stick it to the NCAA by incorporating the culture of all of those people of the state including Native Americans and our students, athletes, coaches and fans that have made this university and the athletic teams great.

no