iramurphy

The NCAA adopted the policy in 2005 which affected 19 institutions using Native American imagery. These schools were given until 2/1/2006 to obtain consent from a "namesake tribe". Two schools, Illinois and San Diego State were given exemptions because the Illinois tribe and Aztecs had become extinct. (I agree the policy is already a bit hypocritical). Florida State, Utah, Central Michigan all complied with the NCAA directive and thus face no sanctions. Pembroke apparently has permission or was given an exemption, i read the comments on our blogs but I didn't look that one up. The other schools are now in compliance. There was not a requirement initially to obtain permission from two tribes. UND and the State of N. Dak. sued in 2006 and would have won that initial lawsuit because the NCAA didnt' follow there own policy. They have since changed their bylaws so this policy will now stand up in court. In order to get an additional 3 years to obtain permission UND had to get the permission of two tribes. That was the trade off to get the extra time. The agreement is binding between the NCAA, UND and the SBoHE. We have not been able to get consent from Standing Rock and they are not receptive to either the SBoHE or UND attempts to sway that vote. The council claims they have voted against approval or voted against considering to vote on the issue 7 or 8 times and question the lack of respect shown them as a sovereign nation. In addition they have had two council elections in the last 4 years and the people of Standing Rock have twice elected councils with a majority of members who oppose giving consent. SBoHE Haugne stated that 6 of 8 districts at Standing Rock have voted to support the councils position. The petition passed attempts a referendum to force UND to keep the name and this will be declared unconstitutional by the N. Dak Supreme Court. The danger is the referendum that threatens to change the constitution. That could be a disaster for UND and UND athletics. UND must belong to a conference and until we hear from the Big Sky that we are in, we must take the warnings from Fullerton seriously. In addition the NCAA member schools voted 400 something to 6 to support the 2006 policy banning the name. The NCAA leadership has made it clear to UND and State of N.DAk. officials that they are not going to change their stance. They point out they have an agreement between the NCAA, the State of N. Dak. and the SBoHE negotiated by the AG of N.Dak. Anyone naive enough to think the NCAA is going to fold save successful litigation from the Spirit Lake Tribe? The rhetoric about the Fighting Irish, Vikings etc. I believe should be valid. You either prohibit use of ethnic groups or you don't and you certainly shouldn't be able to single out one group. Unfortunately the US Supreme Court has previously ruled the NCAA can make up their own rules about membership simialr to your country club which can kick you out if you play golf without a shirt, throw your clubs, use vulgar language or other club rules that are unique to the club. Thus far they have sided with the NCAA when it comes to the issue of whether or not they are a monopoly. In essence they can take their ball and go home or let us play in their yard only by their rules. We can take it or leave it.

"Coming where Mollberg came from"?? He came from Detroit Lakes. The head coach has been Minnesota Coach of the Year and part of 4 State Championship Teams. They run both veer looks and a spread look. One of the better High School programs in the upper midwest. In the "down years" they are still winning 7-9 games per year. Not all against weaker competition. Kids have excellent HS weight training program and college coaches and the kids themselves feel they are well prepared for college. Having said that, you are correct, he will be better off sitting a year and learning under Hanson (as well as the other QB's) and I believe he is very excited to do that.

One might argue that UND didn't do enough but it is a fact that UND and SBoHE officials were stonewalled by His Horse is Thunder and other Tribal Officials when the SBoHE was still trying to keep the name. I can't tell you if they attempted to speak with individuals or just the Triabl Chair but there were efforts made. Easy to say now all it would have taken was UND to find these people "sitting on the fence" and convince them They had every opportunity to call for a meeting of the Tribal Council with UND and every opportunity to speak out publically in favor of gathering more information. I would guess there is more that people at UND and other name supporters could have done but to say if only UND sould have ......... doesn't cut it. There are a lot of things supporters at SR and SL could have done to move the process ahead on their end too. Bottome line, we are where we are. The SR people can still step up to the plate and be counted. It is their reservation and their tribal council. Should they be inclined I still believe if they join with SL they could make a difference with the NCAA. The legislature and UND don't seem to be able to and this new attempt at legislation doesn't hold any promise with respects to moving the NCAA off of their position..

Wanless cleaned up a financial mess. There are a lot of people who think he did a very good job. He certainly is more articulate than Faison. UND athletics had good success under Terry. The hockey team had a couple of tough years around the time Gino left. There is another story that he could have remained hockey coach but the mess in the athletic dept. needed to be cleaned up and people were starting to grumble about hockey. I would be cautious about assuming Wanless was run out of town or that Ralph got everyone fired. Ralph disliked Kuppy and he couldn't get him fired. I am not saying Wanless was or wasn't fired, and I'm not saying Ralph was or wasn't able to move Baker or Wanless out but we are turning rumor and coincidence into facts. Not sure I have seen or heard solid evidence but I certainly see the coincidence. I don't believe Gino was a Wanless fan but it is a good reminder, no matter how popular you are as a coach, even in hockey, you answer to the AD and the president. If Ralph was that powerful how was it he couldn't save Gino???

That is as long as UND is in the Big Sky or a conference. He said we would have a lot of trouble without a conference.

Well, thanks for setting us all straight. I knew we could count on an AC fan to set us straight. It wasn't a mistake to quit playing you in FB at the time. Had we played NDSU when we were D2 it would have been held against us and the one year we likely wouldnt' have made the playoffs at all. That has been rpeviously documented and discussed. It was a mistake to quit playing the AC in the other sports. Tim is in the Alumni Office and I am not sure he is informed of all of the ramifications of the D2 FB playoffs.

I am a die hard UND hockey fan but also a die hard FB, VB, MBB, WBB, Swimming, Baseball, Track and University fan. This is as important for hockey's future as it is for FB, BB etc. Some don't see it because they refuse to believe what those in the know are telling them. Frank Burgraff is maybe a hockey only guy. He doesn't remember or probably doesn't care about all of the Sioux FB, BB, Baseball, Track coaches who went to bat for Gino when Miller was not going to give hime a shot at the hockey job. Those guys are not UND hockey nor is anyone person. UND hockey is about all of those guys, coaches, cheerleaders, fans who supported the team over the years to enable them to be in a position to win 7 championships. I will remember Frank's stance and how it is hurting UND but I don't want anything bad to happen to hockey. I didn't like Haks email to support the flawed legislation but I want him t continue as our coach and I hope he wins 3 or 4 championships before he is done. I hope people closer to him than we are will remind him how UND athletics is a family who have benfited from the successes of each other over the years and we may need his help lobbying hockey fans to defeat this measure. I would guess he speaks to other college coaches who see no problems with the NCAA sanctions. UND administrators speak to college presidents and AD's and seem to be learning otherwise. This is a University matter and it is as important to the future of hockey as it is to the other sports. We simply can't afford to be sanctioned by the NCAA.

That is Minnesota High School League policy not the NCAA.

Best post you have ever posted. It reminds me though of a term people in the miitary referred to those who remained behind when the bullets started to fly yet were wanting to tell the combat soldier how things should be done. They never had anything to lose and didn't have a dog in the fight, so to speak. The were referred to as REMF's. Rear Echelon............. you can figure out the rest. There were and are many support soldiers who do their job in those rear areas with courage and strength but they don't dictate to the combat soldier what they think they should do. They make sure they have the resources to complete the mission successfully. In this case UND needs the Big Sky. We would love to keep the name but we don't need it. We need to make sure UND has all of the resources to be succesful. The membership in the Big Sky is a higher priority than the name.

Faison has said it publically and privately Kelly isn't opposed to the name as long as we don't have sanctions. He was wearing logo gear less than a year ago. These two guys are not the enemy nor are they the problem. You might try going in a meeting these guys. (leave your pink lady friend in the pick-up). Until you hear them say I doubt you will believe anyone else. The enemy is the NCAA and the problem is the entry to the Big Sky. If we had to live with the sanctions until the SL litigation works its way through the system it would be a bitter pill to swallow but we would be OK. I'm afraid it would hurt the hockey teams more than the other sports because of scheduling and the advantage of last line change when you are playing away. . Home field advantage in BB and FB are more psychological because of the fan support and that can be overcome. Baseball also benefits from batting last but I don't know how they choose there playoff sites. We cannot exist without a conference. We aren't Notre Dame and they have had to bite the bullet in most sports except for FB which for now still stands alone. We can't do that.

Sorry but you leave out some important points. There is nothing about the Fighting Sioux name that the Native American people can't continue to celebrate and that includes continued use of the name and logo as they wish. There are a group of Native people who are fighting very hard to help keep the name but that number, over time, has not been overwhelming. The most important things UND does for Native Americans is the programming that UND offers and the help for Native American students that has been there for many years. I tutored Native American students in the mid 1970's as part of a program that was not available to all students. UND has reached out for many years to the reservation communities with outreach programs in many of the academic areas, especially medicine. One of our graduating seniors last year was offered a scholarhip worth almost 1/2 of his costs. He was less than a 3.0 student. He was offered this because he was an enrolled member of the White Earth reservation. There are a lot of things UND does for Native American students that are more important and have been there for many years before some of you folks were born. If you believe that we can't do anything for Native American students on and off of our campus without calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux then I would suggest reviewing all of the ooferings UND has. Tim O'Keefe doesn't owe an explanation, the NCAA does. If there are Native people who think losing our atheltic programs is in there best interest then they do not understand the effect intercollegiate athletics has on the University. I seriously doubt the majority would wish to harm UND athletics and that does include our hockey team. No one will tell Native American students or fans to "go away". How do you make such a stretch?? We will continue to provide some of the most comprehensive academic and counseling programs available to Native American students andwhere in the nation. That is a higher priority than a name at all costs.

You seem to miss the point that UND is not negotiating on equal footing with the NCAA. The NCAA holds all of the cards right now. It is there little fraternity and they make their won rules. UND's current management and the state legislature attempted other ways ( we passed legislation forcing UND to keep the name, after UND was trying to comply with the agreement, We asked for more time because the Standing Rock Tribal Council won't let their people decide on the issue. The clear answer was that state legislation is irrelevant to the NCAA and the agreement requires permission from both tribes. The one area we might get them to copromise on is the fact that we also didn't meet the deadline in order to keep the name without sanctions but even that might be wishful thinking. NDSU and University of Mary fans, who are the other state schhols with NCAA afiliation need to be wary of the state passing this into law. You don't want to find out too late that they are able to declare an entire state sanctioned for state laws whether that be the state flag or a state law invilving a minority group. That would be as big of a disaster for them as this is for us. I am not aware of any move on the part of the NCAA that they would consider this because I ahve no idea what they are up to. As a fan of intercollegiate atheltics in the state of N.Dak. I would make sure we vote this measure down. That won't keep us from reviving the name at a future date, but none of our schools can afford to have long term sanctions by the NCAA and we can't afford to take the chance.

UND has not made any promise to Ralph it didn't keep. Big Sky doesn't care about the name it cares about the sanctions UND faces so it would not be OK with that plan. The Ralph was set up for UND athletics for the future and does not depend on UND keeping the name. That would be safe. The rest of what makes UND athletics is not safe until we either get the name approved by the NCAA and the sanctions are lifted or we drop the name.

Nice comeback,. "whatever". You have no idea what or why Kelly is doing with this issue. You seem to need someone to blame and Kelly and the adminsitration are some of your targets. They could have done things differently along the way and probably could have done some things better but you take a lot of shots at guys when they can't defend themselves nor correct the inaccuracies you continue to blog. You can hide behind a blog and make claims as inaccurate as most of the rest of the stuff you post regarding UND. I am too old to be a tough guy and I would never waste my time threatening you or anyone else on a blog. Who said I didn't like you? Your comments entertain me and obviously others. Kinda like watching cartoons when I was a kid. We can laugh and don't have to think. Reminds me of Graham Cracker. That isn't you under a different name is it Cracker? Not like you? A guy with a fetish for pink colored sheep? I find you fascinating and get a kick out of your posts. When we blog goofy stuff we can't get our grundies in a bundle if people don't agree.

That is the opinion of small minded people who never competed in athletics (if in anything). Normal people can see the harm this will cause our hockey team and the University. Those of you who have no clue of what it takes to recruit kids, run the equipment room, provide medical coverage, get these kids to class etc. will continue to spew ignorant crap like this. This proves there are a few people out there who can cower behind a blog and throw insults at others and is small minded and self centered enough not to care about the women's hockey team, the students, the administration, and the other athletes. Turn off the Oprah channel long enough to watch the UND women's game and you will learn about what tradition is. That is the same tradition for UND hockey and other sports and no one talks about the Sioux name or logo because it is meaningless when you walk into the locker room or onto the ice, court or field of competition. Tradition is about the relationships, teammates, coaches and the experience. People with opinions such as this are meaningless to UND hockey and always will be. The conclusion and this thread are evidence you don't see the big picture. .

O'Keefe who wsa also a hockey player and certainly more of an insider than any of us on this board makes it clear. This is a problem for UND and UND hockey. UND hockey starts the transition to a new conference next year and things are not going as smoothly as we would like. At one time we hoped we might get some Hockey East schools and Notre Dame. Didn't happen. Hockey is too important at UND to lose any more ground than we have too. This is not hockey vs UND, or Vs FB , or vs all other sports. O'Keefe makes that pretty clear.

Moderators. Any thought to combing all 6 or 7 blogs into one? Seems that anything to do with the name, petitions, Big Sky, Kelly etc are basically the same subject.

No Fetch, you are for the Fighting Sioux name. There is nothing about that name that the hockey team needs and it is becoming more evident the threat to our hockey program is as real as the threat to the other programs. UND hockey will no survive as we know it without a stong University and a strong athletic department. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no concept of intercolligiate athletics and the importance of scheduling and the importance of the available academic programming and the college experience. Believe it or not these players interact with other students and University staff and fans. In the past many of them attended FB games, or baseball games or VB or WBB. take all of that away and it lessens the college experience. You my friend are a hockey fan, and a fan of the Fighting Sioux name but you are not a friend of UND hockey nor UND athletics.

But they don't get up for that game because of the name. The tradition of the program and those that have come before them but not the name.

You don't think he is doing that??? Kelly didn't put us in his mess. One mistake Kelly has made is to resume use of the name so soon. If he was told by the SBoHE then he had, to but I would have done nothing with the name until forced to. He and others are going to have to spend a lot of money and time to defeat this dumb-ass legislation. I worked for Clifford and visited with him years ago and again in the last few years prior to his death. Anyone who thinks Tom Clifford would be supporting the petition or legislation to force UND to keep the name didn't know the man. He was a UND guy. Most of us are UND guys. We are big hockey fans. We are also big BB, VB, swimming, baseball, track, fans. We want our aviation program to be the best in the country. We want our Engineering Dept. to thrive. We want new programming to thrive and we want great facilities for our students and faculty. That was more who Tom Clifford was. He would not have allowed Hakstol to send a dumb ass email without a very quick visit to his office and reprimand. He would have been working behind the scenes and with legislators, and students, and his colleagues at the AC to make sure this petition didn't get off the ground and if it did it would be defeated. There is nothing about this name right now that is good for UND. Everything people have been concerned about is coming to fruition. The Big Sky membership is in jeopardy. The future of our hockey schedules is screwed. Womens hockey is screwed for hosting playoffs. How much worse does anyone want this to get before they say we need to wise up. There may be something someone in the can come up with that may help but right now it is the litigation by Spirit Lake that holds any promise for the return of the name without hurting the school and without hurting hockey. Simple as that. Sixpack or Kolpack if that is you, your claim that the Big Sky is bluffing has no basis. Do we believe you or do we believe UND officials who have been working with the Big Sky and Fullerton himself. Ther eare people dumb enough to believe what you claim so they tell their friends about "scare tactics and this all being a bluff". Gotta be pretty stubborn or stupid or both not to see the wrtitning on the wall. We heard from these same characters that once the Governor, and legislators met with the NCAA they would change their stance. Not only did they not change their stance, they thumbed their noses at us. Anyone with any interest in UND and that includes UND hockey must oppose this for the sake of the University and the hockey program. Are we as a team and University better off with or without the name? Right now it appears we are much better off without the name and the evidence conitnues to build.

You have no basis for the claim about Minnesota. I sat next to Maturi at lunch and he said they will not play us because it is their school policy. Faison has spoken to the Wisconsin staff since Dickey's statement and therefore I believe you are wrong there too. If UND didn't have any other sports other than hockey this would hurt us. The name is not as important as the success of our teams. For those who think it is a Native American priority there are so many other ways to positively affect change on the reservations. The name could have been and should have been a bridge to many opportunities and was not used to the full extent it could have been but you don't need the name to make a difference. Every thing people want to do for Native Americans can be done without this name. It does nothing for UND athletics and in fact it is now causing harm and unless the NCAA pulls the sanctions, the harm will be massive.

Agree except that you should have stated "NDSU is the better team right now".

And that would be when we bring back the name. By the way you can flip you flag back upright for a while.

Agree