The Sicatoka Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 flatspin: I'm saying the students knew the deal. If they saw some of their own breaking it they should have stopped it. "Those guys" may have been doing it, but it affects you as well so yes, responsibility does fall to you if want to keep the deal. You let some of your benefits go away by standing (pun not intended) idly by. (There is a great civics/government lesson in there for all of you.) And you really don't want to sit next to me at games. The day I was told I was "obnoxiously loud and boisterous," well, I considered it a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 flatspin: I'm saying the students knew the deal. If they saw some of their own breaking it they should have stopped it. "Those guys" may have been doing it, but it affects you as well so yes, responsibility does fall to you if want to keep the deal. You let some of your benefits go away by standing (pun not intended) idly by. (There is a great civics/government lesson in there for all of you.) And you really don't want to sit next to me at games. The day I was told I was "obnoxiously loud and boisterous," well, I considered it a compliment. Sic... Believe me it was tried, I've seen people try to tell the a$$holes to sit down, they just simply turn around a tell the person to A) F*ck off, or B) stand themselves. Students pay for the tickets too, and if someone in our way was standing and wouldn't sit...we deal with it by standing. Sitting with flatspin behind the visitor's box, I wasn't in a position to talk to the students that were standing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 So if 10-20 students stand up and refuse to sit down when other students ask them to, all students should be punished for it? REA and the Athletic Department did and said nothing about it all year and then all of the sudden at the end of the year it is a huge problem. If it was such a big problem, why didn't they do anything about it earlier? Why didn't they talk to the students who insisted on standing? Really, by letting those 10-20 students stand all year, they had an excuse to move the students. This was something they wanted to do last year, but the Student Senate voted against it. So this year they just unilaterely decided to move the students, without dealing with the Student Senate. They can use the students not sitting as the reason why they did it. Works perfect for them. Students lose seats and now REA can charge a higher donation fee for new season ticket holders to sit in those seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 I believe that several posters are minimizing the problem of students standing. It was not 10-20 students, but many times, was an entire section. I know several families from Fargo who commute to the game, and it was a major, major problem. The students are important, but how do you think it looks for the university that is trying to fill an 11,500 seat arena when boosters who pay thousands for tickets and "donations", many of whom travel for the game, complain loudly about not being able to see games because students refuse to sit even after being asked? This is to give you a little different insight and perspective into the problem. I agree with Ryan Bakken. I was a student at UND also, and it is extremely important to have students, even rowdy students. However, lack of civility and refusal to follow rules are not tolerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 There were many more than 10-20 students standing up, but I guess I'm just going on what flatspin says. I believe what he says in that almost all of the students would sit down if not for those 10-20 students. Much like other people, these students can't see when the others are standing. Unlike other people though they are willing to stand up to see the game. This just makes the problem worse and certainly doesn't help the situation any. If what flatspin says is true and it was attempted to get the problem students to sit and they refused, exactly what else should the majority of students have done? Not stand up sure, but then they can't see the game and they have the same complaint as many other season ticket holders. There is no easy solution, but when one side isn't even trying to find a solution, it makes it even harder. REA had no problem kicking students out last year and I didn't feel bad for any of the students who got tossed. Why did they have a problem doing it this year? They did nothing this year. Heck, security didn't even hassle us at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 REA had no problem kicking students out last year and I didn't feel bad for any of the students who got tossed. Why did they have a problem doing it this year? Probably because REA received a ton of negative publicity for tossing out students, not to mention endless whining from students themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Not really. I don't remember REA getting any negative publicity for kicking the students out last year. The guys I remember being tossed were breaking cupholders. REA had them on videotape doing it, so the next time those guys came in, they were kicked out and their ID number was voided. The only students who whined about it were the ones that got kicked out and REA talked to those students about it afterwards and solved the problem. If REA would have talked to the students about standing up and told them either sit down or have your season tickets taken away, there wouldn't have been any excuses or reason to whine. If you do something wrong and are warned about it, yet chose to continue to do it, you deserve no sympathy and other students aren't going to support you. While it is a crazy example, if 10 people were constantly standing up somewhere else in the arena, would all the responsibility lay on the people around them to get those 10 to sit down? Or would REA people at least talk to them about it? The students were warned and told about it last year, but still REA could have talked to the problem students this year. They decided not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Not really. I don't remember REA getting any negative publicity for kicking the students out last year. I distinctly remember reading articles in the Herald and Dakota Student about cops being used to toss out students who wouldn't sit down. There was a great deal of whining about how excessive it was for the crime. I don't think it happened more than once or twice. I also remember the broken cupholder incident. I believe that happened this season, not last season. You're right that if 10 people were constantly standing elsewhere in REA, security would talk to them about it. And I'm sure everyone around those 10 people would be happy to see them gone. The difference here is that students insist on doing everything as a group. They all want to sit in the same place as a group and they all want to be represented as a group. Unfortunately, that also means that they're being punished as a group. I'm not saying that's fair, only that I understand why it's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 flatspin: I'm saying the students knew the deal. If they saw some of their own breaking it they should have stopped it. "Those guys" may have been doing it, but it affects you as well so yes, responsibility does fall to you if want to keep the deal. You let some of your benefits go away by standing (pun not intended) idly by. (There is a great civics/government lesson in there for all of you.) And you really don't want to sit next to me at games. The day I was told I was "obnoxiously loud and boisterous," well, I considered it a compliment. I strongly disagree. We can tell those people to sit down all we want, but they aren't going to listen to us, we have nothing to back up our requests. The fact is the REA did absolutely nothing to try and enforce the problem and they are the only group that has the power to do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 You're right that if 10 people were constantly standing elsewhere in REA, security would talk to them about it. And I'm sure everyone around those 10 people would be happy to see them gone. The difference here is that students insist on doing everything as a group. They all want to sit in the same place as a group and they all want to be represented as a group. Unfortunately, that also means that they're being punished as a group. I'm not saying that's fair, only that I understand why it's happening. Thats simply not true. The students do not do things as a group. Most of the students sit down and have done what was asked of them. The few students that do stand are the exception not a rule, if those guys where to get kicked out after numerous warnings, I say they deserved it! If they were warned and knew what the consequences were so be it. The people behind them that stand up as well are doing so out of necessity, the people infront of them stand so they must stand or they cant see. I dont see how those people actions... people that tell everybody who tries to change their behavior to F$#% off... should reflect on anyway when the arena never did anything specifically to fix it. I dont identify my self with the few A$$ holes And if the arena and the Athletic dept are so worried about bad press they should remember that the students can scream just as loud as any one else. This feeling of second class citizenship at REA better stop or they will never get the atmosphere in that place that it deserved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Thats simply not true. The students do not do things as a group. Do the students not insist on being seated together as a group? Do they not insist that any effort to move them be approved by the UND Student Senate? That's what I'm talking about. Last season, I don't recall any great outpouring of student sentiment to remove the troublemakers who insisted on standing. In fact, what I continually heard from the students was that it was their "right" stand throughout the games and that it was a "tradition." Everything the REA did to cope with the problem -- including removing the individuals causing the problem -- was derided by the students and the media. You are correct about the chain-reaction effect caused when just a few people choose to stand. It forces everyone behind and beside them to do the same if they want to see the game. Unfortunately, there are some in the arena who can't stand or who can't see even if they do. That's why it's a rude, inconsiderate practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Students want so Sit together because that is the nature of the student section. I would much rather sit with other students. Would you want to sit with students, I asume not! But the students are not going to police or own, if REA wanted to keep the students were they were at they would have booted those guys out of the games. THe bottom line is that they wanted the money and set the students up to fail. When they never met us half way. We were promised arena efforts to get the crowd into the game. What ever they have done didnt work. How come REA and the Athletic Dept is OK moving 500(approx) students but cant seem to remove 10-20? Its fishy to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I apologize if this is old news, but haven't seen it posted anywhere. Anyway, I just heard on the news that the seating issue has "finally" been resolved. The students will be moved to section 111 and get the first five rows of a neighboring section. I am curious if that will be section 112 or 110? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I apologize if this is old news, but haven't seen it posted anywhere. Anyway, I just heard on the news that the seating issue has "finally" been resolved. The students will be moved to section 111 and get the first five rows of a neighboring section. I am curious if that will be section 112 or 110? Who knows.. I hope the REA strictly enforces a rule that the first 5 rows of whatever section must sit down when appropriate or threaten to take the seats away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 At the beginning of last year, you are right, students did feel it was their right to stand up. But after a while most students saw the other peoples point of view and though they'd rather stand, they sat for a majority of the game. I honestly don't remember but how much were students standing up at the end of last year? If there wasn't much standing, then there was no reason to demand the bad students be tossed because there were none. You are right the students did constantly complain about being kicked out or moved, etc. Students no matter if it is 2003 in Grand Forks or 1958 in Miami complain about people of authority coming down on them. Then again other people always complain about students, no matter what the students do. Both of these things always have and probably always will happen. That doesn't mean that REA shouldn't have taken their share of the responibility in the seating situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I still fail to see logic in the argument where students have a responsibility to police themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I apologize if this is old news, but haven't seen it posted anywhere. Anyway, I just heard on the news that the seating issue has "finally" been resolved. The students will be moved to section 111 and get the first five rows of a neighboring section. I am curious if that will be section 112 or 110? The students get section 111 and the first 5 rows of Section 110. Here's the GF Herald story about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I still fail to see logic in the argument where students have a responsibility to police themselves. Nobody cares what you think because you won't be back in Grand Forks next school year. Why you'd leave sunny North Dakota for Utah (I stand corrected) is beyond me. Sometimes there's just no accounting for taste. On a more serious note, I agree that it's not reasonable to expect students to police themselves. I suspect the hope was that peer pressure might work. In other words, if the students causing the problem felt enough pressure from other students, they might see the error of their ways to avoid losing the good seats. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 If what flatspin says is true and it was attempted to get the problem students to sit and they refused, exactly what else should the majority of students have done? Not stand up sure, but then they can't see the game and they have the same complaint as many other season ticket holders. If I may plat devil's advocate... I wonder what would have happened if a group of students complained about other students standing to REA ushers/ admin? Certainly the REA admin turned a blind eye to any enforcement of the "standing issue" this past season. But was it because it would be viewed as the same old "old farts vs. the students" thing? I have to wonder if REA might have taken some action if it was the students complaining... I think that's a bet I'd take... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 If I may plat devil's advocate... I wonder what would have happened if a group of students complained about other students standing to REA ushers/ admin? Certainly the REA admin turned a blind eye to any enforcement of the "standing issue" this past season. But was it because it would be viewed as the same old "old farts vs. the students" thing? I have to wonder if REA might have taken some action if it was the students complaining... I think that's a bet I'd take... Hey, I thought "flatspin7" was our "Devils Advocate." Oh, other kind of Devils. Seriously, "airmail" makes exactly the point I was trying to make. I'm not saying Dirty and his 6-wearing hero should have come in and opened a big ol' can o' whoop-tushy (credit Marge Simpson) on the dozen standing. I'm saying students complaining to the ushers would have made the REA folk's job easy: GF Herald: Why'd you kick those 10-20 students out? REA: Because of the 1000 students around them asked us to. GF Herald: Not the other folks? REA: Nope. The students asked us to fix the problem after they tried first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Am I missing something? The Herald article said that moving to the corner article is the choice and the UND Student Senate can decide if they want to move. It doesn't sound like anything is decided yet. I'm curious how the Student Senate will seek opinions from the students. It is still a loss of seats, so if it happens, I think I'll just invest some money into a big screen TV. It will be better than watching from the upper bowl and there will be more atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soSIOUXme Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 wouldn't it be a better solution to give the students the last 5 seats in each row (or however many) so that even if they do continue to have a standing problem it won't block non-students behind. I would think giving the first 5 rows to the students would potentially create the same situation that existed before. Also, by putting all of the 110 student seats next to 111 it would create a more unified lower bowl student section. Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 1, 2003 Author Share Posted May 1, 2003 It does seem like a problem waiting to happen. Putting students directly infront of the section that bitched the most about it last year. Not a good Idea. I see they want to get more ammo to move all students upstairs next year. Not a good idea unless you are going to put seat belts on those seats that only un-latch during intermission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 To try and give an explanation to airmail's comment...I think that the students don't feel respected by the REA staff. They didn't even try to figure out a way for us to enter the arena. It was the students that figured out how to make it work. We are forced to pretty much fend for ourselves at REA, and I'm sure the students that were affected by standing felt that REA would take them seriously. Also, last year they didn't wait for students to complain before they booted the people who wanted to stand, what changed? They saw an opportunity to make money and, obviously took it. Also, giving students the first 5 rows of 110? ...I'm calling shenanigans on this one. If I happen to be seated in this section, I will be respectful to those around me and sit down...during the low points of the game...however, powerplays and select PK's I will stand...last two minutes of a close game I will stand... and OT, I will stand. More than likely I won't be in that section, as I get to the arena early enough, so they won;t have to worry about me, but just some food for thought to REA for that ingenious decision. I would advise all posters who have tickets in 110 to warn the section of what might happen during these times, and stand with us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I'll say it again: Don't "dis" the view from the upper in The Ralph. I've watched games from up and down and to watch the game the up is far better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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