PCM Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 We wouldn't have this lingering "leave of absence" saga to deal with. Of course, you can guarantee that something like that would never have happened had everyone followed your simple advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Of course, you can guarantee that something like that would never have happened had everyone followed your simple advice. I'm not big on guarantees, just opinions. Whether it's in aligmnent with your's or not, that does not make it any more or less valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I'm not big on guarantees, just opinions. Whether it's in aligmnent with your's or not, that does not make it any more or less valid. The issue isn't whether your opinion is in alignment with mine. You're certain that you know exactly what should have been done. And yet, even with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, there's no way you can guarantee that the situation would have turned out any differently had your advice been followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 We wouldn't have this lingering "leave of absence" saga to deal with. While I understand that people may want more of an immediate sense of closure, and I don't personally understand what Buning is gaining by taking a leave of absence instead of resigning, it doesn't really make a practical difference to me either way. Regardless, Buning is no longer carrying out the duties of athletic director, and won't be again at UND. No matter whether Buning was out in July or in September, or whether he took an extended leave of absence starting in July or in September, there still would have been an interim a.d. (or a.d.'s) for several months, wouldn't there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The issue isn't whether your opinion is in alignment with mine. You're certain that you know exactly what should have been done. And yet, even with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, there's no way you can guarantee that the situation would have turned out any differently had your advice been followed. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 While I understand that people may want more of an immediate sense of closure, and I don't personally understand what Buning is gaining by taking a leave of absence instead of resigning, it doesn't really matter to me either way. Regardless, Buning is no longer carrying out the duties of athletic director, and won't be again at UND. No matter whether Buning was out in July or in September, or whether he took an extended leave of absence starting in July or in September, there still would have been an interim a.d. (or a.d.'s) for several months, wouldn't there? In hindsight, I think the negative P.R could have reduced somewhat, but we'll never know. Your right, same outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Inserting Harmeson was not a direct way to handle the issue, IMO. Inserting another layer of management rarely works. A layer of management yes, but with a law degree who will come in and make sure that UND deals with the matter in the proper and procedural (and least exposure to UND to litigation) way is a bad thing? I think not. As an extra benefit, that "extra layer" was the UND NCAA Faculty Athletic Representative until recently, so he understands some things about Athletics. A couple things I've said to people publicly and privately: - Let professionals do their jobs professionally (behind closed doors as the situation may call for). - Don't make Phil Harmeson "run a mop" behind you (and Harmeson had to in the Hak signing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 A layer of management yes, but with a law degree who will come in and make sure that UND deals with the matter in the proper and procedural (and least exposure to UND to litigation) way is a bad thing? I think not. As an extra benefit, that "extra layer" was the UND NCAA Faculty Athletic Representative until recently, so he understands some things about Athletics. A couple things I've said to people publicly and privately: - Let professionals do their jobs professionally (behind closed doors as the situation may call for). - Don't make Phil Harmeson "run a mop" behind you (and Harmeson had to in the Hak signing). I agree with this. I don't claim to have an understanding of the bureaucracy involved in running a university, but was it really necessary to announce to the world, "EVERYONE? Mr. Buning will be reporting to Mr. Harmeson effective immediately!". It could have been done more quietly. Maybe it was necessary from a legal standpoint to formalize the organization that way, I'm not an expert in employment law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 ... but was it really necessary to announce to the world, "EVERYONE? Mr. Buning will be reporting to Mr. Harmeson effective immediately!". Yes, it was an organizational change, and if not announced the "black helicopters and tin hats" crowd would have started in with theories. What was unnecessary was dragging this into a public posting forum. It could've been quietly, professionally, handled. The emails show it was being handled. Allow people to do their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 DON'T MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR!!! *turns around and looks at you all in the backseat* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux_Yeah_Yeah Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The last time I checked this thread, it was at 6 pages. This is outta control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 This is outta control Shhhhh!!! Don't say anything or HockeyMom's gonna yell at us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 DON'T MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR!!! *turns around and looks at you all in the backseat* HockeyMom, what kind of car you driving? You really think you could get all these guys in your backseat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMeNow Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 DON'T MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR!!! *turns around and looks at you all in the backseat* Are we there yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 WOW!!!! I've been getting set up at my new assignment and haven't had a chance to sign in for a couple of days. I knew my post would bring fs1, 7NationalTitles and UND 92, 96 on line with their three card monte posts. Let me say this again, I don't know what Buning's job performance was and have NOT posted any support or non-support for the man because I DON'T KNOW how he was doing his job. I DO BELIEVE that Martinsen is a major player in getting rid of the man. I DO BELIEVE that he leaked the email to someone who posted it on SS.com on the same day it was sent to him because it was posted almost verbatim on SS.com. Say what you will, the only way that could have happened is by Martinsen sharing that email with a SS.com member. THE SAME DAY!! THE ONLY WAY, IMHO! As I've said before, fire the man if he deserves to be fired. There are ways to fire someone in a professional way and then there's the three ring circus/freak show that is now going on. Buning is likely using the LOA to step back and look at the situation before making a major decision. The LOA did not precede the unprofessional methods UND and 'the major stakeholders' are using to fire him. And IMHO, his taking a LOA is NOT contributing to the freak show. It's what I did when a former supervisor threatened to fire me. And it served me very well! * Hockeymom and Sioux Yeah Yeah, don't read anymore. It's just giving you a headache. Go back to the SPORTS FORUMS. * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 [url=http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=180625§ion=Columnists&columnist=Mike%20McFeely]McFeely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 The University of North Dakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=180625 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Buning's future at UND unclearMonday will mark four weeks since UND Athletic Director Tom Buning's leave of absence was announced, the amount of time he originally said he would be on leave. But whether or not Buning will be returning to UND on Monday is still unclear. "We currently have no idea whether or not Tom will be back at work on Monday," said Vice President for General Administration Phil Harmeson. "As of now, we have had no contact with him." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 "We currently have no idea whether or not Tom will be back at work on Monday," said Vice President for General Administration Phil Harmeson. "As of now, we have had no contact with him." Vaht?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Vaht?!? Vee haf had no kontac mit him. Is that better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Vee haf had no kontac mit him. Is that better? Ja, bitte! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Ja, bitte! Danke Schoen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Walrus Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 "We currently have no idea whether or not Tom will be back at work on Monday," said Vice President for General Administration Phil Harmeson. "As of now, we have had no contact with him." I guess all Sioux Fans should start looking on the back of "Milk Cartons" starting Monday....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux89 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 A layer of management yes, but with a law degree who will come in and make sure that UND deals with the matter in the proper and procedural (and least exposure to UND to litigation) way is a bad thing? I think not. As an extra benefit, that "extra layer" was the UND NCAA Faculty Athletic Representative until recently, so he understands some things about Athletics. A couple things I've said to people publicly and privately: - Let professionals do their jobs professionally (behind closed doors as the situation may call for). - Don't make Phil Harmeson "run a mop" behind you (and Harmeson had to in the Hak signing). Not that I am a fan of Buning or Harmeson, but you need to seriously sit back and reconsider your thoughts on Phil Harmeson. Just because someone is a FAR doesn't mean they are qualified to run an athletic department anymore than a city councilperson is qualified to be a the city police chief. The FAR by definition is a representative of the faculty of a university to assist with the athletic component of an institution. They are there to give justification to an athletic department and legitimize the academics that are occuring but they are not to run an athletic department. The point being, that a "real FAR" doesn't deal with athletic issues such as staffing and contracts but rather serves at the pleasure of a president to represent the academic side of an institution. An FAR should never, under any circumstances be involved in personnel issues with staffing... Secondly, the NCAA is going to frown upon a VP being appointed between the AD and the president. That does go against the intent of the process. That being said, in many institutions the AD is designated a VP or sits at that same level of institutional managment. Refer to Arizona State University for an example... That being said, UND handled this whole thing horribly. AD's get fired everyday around the country. Very rarely does it make the NACDA report due to the manner in which it is handled. The fact the UND had to send out a letter to Division I institutions in the country about the problems occuring and how they are still progressing towards Div. I so please schedule us is a testimate to how poorly it was handled. That, unfortunately, is PAR for the course for UND... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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