Negotiated Settlement?

[Smoggy]

At least we can all be comforted that Leigh Jeanotte (sp?) will finally be doing the job he is paid to do.

[Smoggy]

Good luck. A "multi-cultural" committee full of "diversity" will surely approve the final choices and you'll wind up with this:

Storm

Thunder

Lightning

Heat

Wild

Fusion

Fury

Silver Hawks

Blue Sky

Shining Prairie

I think most of those are Indian names. Doesn't seem like we can use them.

[dagies]

Geez. You didn't need to drag me into this thing, did you?

I agree with everything else that you say.

I'm still laughing!!

[The Sicatoka]

Good luck. A "multi-cultural" committee full of "diversity" will surely approve the final choices and you'll wind up with this:

Storm

Thunder

Lightning

Heat

Wild

Fusion

Fury

Silver Hawks

Blue Sky

Shining Prairie

Storm, Thunder, and Lightning are out because we can't offend (or scare) Northwood residents after the tornado.

Heat? In ND?

Wild is a Minnesota hockey team. Nope.

Fusion is nuclearly related and we can't upset Greenpeace.

Fury (Furies) were mythical vengeful females and we can't be stereotyping.

Silver Hawks? Not with Blue Hawks in Dickinson.

I'll just ignore Blue Sky and Shining Prairie.

[dagies]

If we do go the way of a new nickname I'm in favor of any nickname that takes a poke back at the NCAA (i.e. Cavalry or similar) or else just forgoe a nickname and go with North Dakota. The fans can continue the Fighting Sioux tradition themselves.

In the meantime, "North Dakota" would show up on the jerseys like this:

N. DAKOTA

[The Whistler]

So if the NCAA admits that our name is not hostile and abusive then why would we have to change it.

I think my big problem is that we just gave up our chance in court. We had no reason to think that we wouldn't have gotten a fair hearing. If we would have lost then sobeit.

Caving just doesn't sit right with me.

Maybe things will work out. I say don't weasel around with the tribes. Tell them it's up to them (as the Stenejhem protocol says) give them a date to make up their minds and live with it.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

If we do go the way of a new nickname I'm in favor of any nickname that takes a poke back at the NCAA (i.e. Cavalry or similar) or else just forgoe a nickname and go with North Dakota. The fans can continue the Fighting Sioux tradition themselves.

I'll bring back an idea that I offered a few months ago: if one of the tribes works with you, why not rename yourself the " (insert cooperating tribe's name here) Sioux"?? Say, Turtle Lake Sioux or Spirit Lake Sioux or whoever.

Creative fonts could be used, as you suggest. And a historical picture of a revered Chief could be used as a symbol/logo.

[darell1976]

What exactly did UND get out of this? I do not see any reason we should be happy with our attorneys. P. S. bring back the old blackhawk jerseys for the final three years.

We get an apology from the NCAA about being hostile and abusive and a new nickname.

[darell1976]

Here is a question i heard on the news and never thought of it....who pays to remove all the logos from the REA, Alerus, etc. The students in the way of special fees, the university, alumni, people of Grand Forks or people of the state of North Dakota, I think the answer should be casino money from the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes, we should get a share to take down the logos.

[The Sicatoka]

" .... who pays to remove all the logos .... "

If it comes to that, I'm sure UND will find some part of the budget to make it work ....

[darell1976]

If it comes to that, I'm sure UND will find some part of the budget to make it work ....

I heard them say those logos could bring in big money when it sells on Ebay, whether they are serious i don't know, but it would be cool to have a big bronzed logo of the Sioux.

[Teeder11]

The Herald did say:

But it wouldn't be the first time the Herald got it wrong.

So we got three years of time to kick this around and keep some of the architecture. I wouldn't have settled for that.

So what happens the mythical day the Ralph gets turned over to the University? Jackhammers?

The Herald got it right. And they got it right without anonymous sources, unlike the Fargo Fraud.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Point taken, but it's not like the nickname was retired this afternoon, I'm just more of a positive person than a negative one.

I just think that people are jumping to conclusions and giving up the fight, when it's far from over.

Perhaps people are thinking that effectively, the nickname was retired as of today; but with a three-year retirement party in between. I guess that's the best way I can think of my own feelings (and in reading the posts, I'd say a lot of others feel the same way).

And also, I'd say people are defining "the fight" differently. My initial reaction was that I wanted far more of a fight than what was shown today. Getting three years to continue to talk to people who have clearly shown over the last fifteen (or more) years that they want nothing more than to get back at "the man" for (some) real and (far more) imagined slights that they think "their people" have suffered since the Europeans came to America isn't going to change them much. All it will do is give them an even more outsized sense of entitlement and "ownership" of a word from history.

All in all, I think a lot of people invested a lot of time, some money and a lot of emotional energy in this, and right now they're very dissatisfied with the outcome their leaders have given them. They really think they deserve more. And today's posts are merely the begining. If UND is lucky, the posts will continue. If they're not, the posts will diminish as apathy sets in. Unfufilled promises usually lead to anger initially: but when you don't see any hope for a payoff you move on down the road.

BTW, good luck with the hockey. Believe it or not, Illinois had (maybe still has) women's hockey on the club level.

[darell1976]

Perhaps people are thinking that effectively, the nickname was retired as of today; but with a three-year retirement party in between. I guess that's the best way I can think of my own feelings (and in reading the posts, I'd say a lot of others feel the same way).

And also, I'd say people are defining "the fight" differently. My initial reaction was that I wanted far more of a fight than what was shown today. Getting three years to continue to talk to people who have clearly shown over the last fifteen (or more) years that they want nothing more than to get back at "the man" for (some) real and (far more) imagined slights that they think "their people" have suffered since the Europeans came to America isn't going to change them much. All it will do is give them an even more outsized sense of entitlement and "ownership" of a word from history.

All in all, I think a lot of people invested a lot of time, some money and a lot of emotional energy in this, and right now they're very dissatisfied with the outcome their leaders have given them. They really think they deserve more. And today's posts are merely the begining. If UND is lucky, the posts will continue. If they're not, the posts will diminish as apathy sets in. Unfufilled promises usually lead to anger initially: but when you don't see any hope for a payoff you move on down the road.

BTW, good luck with the hockey. Believe it or not, Illinois had (maybe still has) women's hockey on the club level.

Well said, I am one who would say the name has been retired with a 3 year party its like the president elected in November but not official until January, well we have 3 years to talk about a new name and one of common sense, I heard on WDAY there is talk about an idea for a new name and logo being talked around I don't know if she is talking about the Force of the North or what but at 10pm i will be at work so i will miss that...keep me posted. I think reality will sit in about changing the name, the natives are not going to change their minds and we just have to live with it. And the AG should have fought a little harder but decided to give up at the end. I like the Force of the North for a name or how about Green Wave because of the colors oh wait EGF, and Tulane have that. Well think green and white RRV, and cold weather with mosquitos. But nothing to do with Indians that way no controvercy...ever!

[gjw007]

I've said all along that if the only way we can retain the name is through threats and intimidation, then we should change it.

I agree. If UND keeps it only through threats, then the opponents were correct.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Now the ball is in Ron His Horse Thunders court, its just easier to complain and make a fuss then to actually come up with solutions.

Some people are born complainers. They want to find slights and insults in every communication. Once this is over, they will need to find a new "oppressor" to blame for their victim status.

And I agree with you. I think some of the more militant Indian "leaders" are going to realize that their vitriol has led them to a position where they can either cooperate with "the man" and look like they've compromised the principles they've espoused for such a very long time-or they can continue on the path they've chosen and make a decision that IMHO will be unpopular among their tribe. But to be honest, I don't think that the unpopularity will lead to immediate consequences for the leaders. I think the vast majority of Indians don't view this nickname as anything that impacts their day-to-day lives either way.

[The Whistler]

I agree. If UND keeps it only through threats, then the opponents were correct.

Let's include a straight cash payoff in that. Maybe agree that the tribes have some ownership of the merchandise sales but that's it.

I say set a date just after the hockey season's over (only because it's the latest season). Publicly announce why we think they should keep the name and let it be. Let the tribes make their decisions and live with it.

That's the best we can do with the deal we have today thanks to the Attorney General and Governor's appointees. It's not what I like but it's what we have.

[The Whistler]

The Herald got it right. And they got it right without anonymous sources, unlike the Fargo Fraud.

I'm sorry I blamed the Herald. The Attorney General got it wrong in his statement. Maybe he didn't bother reading it.

[dagies]

I think it's time to find a group of Irishmen and start a letter writing protest against the ND nickname. Give the NCAA a little more of their own soup.

[choyt3]

Don't know if it has been posted yet, but here's the NCAA press release.

The studio guy at 96.1 just read a number of statements from different affected entities. Nothing so far from UND, according to him.

[The Whistler]

I think it's time to find a group of Irishmen and start a letter writing protest against the ND nickname. Give the NCAA a little more of their own soup.

Great Point. There's more Irish in me than in many tribal registered indians. And at 1-7 we can make the hostile and abusive charge stick.

[gjw007]

Is the Pope Catholic? Some Colts fans became Ravens fans, but some continue to cheer for the Colts. Unfortunately for us, we won't have the Sioux anymore in Grand Forks or any other city if the name goes away. We would be worse off than the Colts fans. Their team merely moved from one location to another, ours would go away forever. We would be given a different team to replace them, but I for one would not be interested in supporting a different team.

Living in Maryland (30 miles west of Baltimore), I have a different view on this in that almost to a fault, almost every Baltimore fans has a dislike Bob Irsay, the owner of the Colts who moved from Baltimore in the middle of the night. Several took that frustration out on the Colts as a team but it was mostly directed at the owner but the team suffered the dislike because of it. Think how Cleveland felt about its team leaving and going to Baltimore. Most football fans in both cities have a dislike of the owner who moved the team but have embraced the new teams. In a sense, when do local fans support a team that is competing against the local team?

One problem that this 'settlement' has is that it accepts the notion that the name is 'hostile and abusive', even though it has the NCAA specifically state that it didn't find this at UND, by accepting the punishment (i.e. changing the name), UND accepts that it has been as the NCAA claims. In addition, since using the name of a tribe is declared as such, and UND has agreed to change its name because of this, Dakota is also a name of a tribe and puts UND back into the same situation. This could become an endless spiral.

[Shawn-O]

The University of North Dakota Kelly Green, with a big fat "DAKOTA" across the front of all uniforms. That's the best I have right now.

[PCM]

Is it possible that the AG office knows of a means to obtain approval from both Spirit Lake and Standing Rock of which we are not aware?

Remember, Archie Fools Bear said that six of eight districts on the Standing Rock reservation approved of UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. When Fools Bear tried to get the tribal council to support the nickname, His Horse is Thunder wouldn't even allow a vote. That might be a clue.

I also believe that there's more support for UND on the Spirit Lake reservation than we've been led to believe. That's one way to look at Myra Pearson's wet-noodle leadership on the issue.

[omahasioux1]

I disagree. We don't have Native American programs so we can keep/use the Fighting Sioux name and logo. We have them because our institution is in North Dakota and it's the right thing to do. We offer Native American programs so NAs can get an education, so they can shed the cloak of 'victim', so they can move forward. Hopefully, they go back to their reservations and help fight alcoholism, promote health and education, and stop the vicious cycle of 'us against them'.

Well said.