New FCS Board

[WYOBISONMAN]

Smack talk is too allowed! I do it all the time! No one listens to me though, so it goes unnoticed.

Hmmmm.......Kinda sounds like when I am talking to my wife and kids..........

[NDSUFREAK10]

I thought Ralph left AGS about a month ago.

under "ralph" yeah, he is gone. but under agsadmin, he is alive and well. MEANING ralph is also agsadmin.

[NDSUFREAK10]

well..we're going DIVISION I - aa Why would we care about the Fiscal Conservancy Board?*

* - A subdivision of bankings' FDIC!

I wish someone like NDSUFreak could set me straight on acronyms....

if you ever do go on AGS (which i advise you not to) a storm will come your way from dbackjon, UNHWILDCATS, and others about using FCS. It isn't hard to use FCS.

[Herd]

The NCAA sponsors 25+ championships at the Division I level. Only 1 sport in Divison I has a subdivision, football. That is why the IA/IAA label, often incorrectly used as an all sport label, was eliminated by the NCAA. The FCS/FBS subdivision labels as directed by the NCAA, are not to be attached to the Division I label when referring to Division I schools. It is just Division I, with subdivisions for football only.

In Division I football you can play at the 85 (FBS) or 0-63 (FCS) scholarship level. All other Divsion I sports (25+) play for the same championship with the same scholarship levels, and there is no distiction other than Division I. It doesn't matter if your school has 5000 or 50000 students. For those of you who think DI = DII, you are very wrong.

For those of you who think that DII = DI in football, you are wrong. I would gladly pit the top 25 DII football teams against the top 25 DI (FCS) teams and it would be just as lopsided as the top 25 FBS playing the top 25 FCS.

It would be 20-36 scholarships against 63 scholarships in DII vs. DI (FCS). Or, 63 scholarships vs. 85 scholoarship in DI (FCS) vs. (FBS). FCS has had some good success against FBS teams in recent years, even against the BCS conferences, and that gap is closing. Those of you that today think the DII top 25 would have significnat success agains the DI (FCS) top 25, you are delusional and you will learn if you ever play a full schedule of good FCS teams. We are talking about an average gap of more than 30+ scholarships. I'm not saying anything bad about DII football, but it is not the same level as DI with 63 scholarships.

The small minded attempts by people on this board to confuse readers about Division I athletics and talk down Divison I is hard to understand. This is the very same divsion you are joining. How are you going to spin things when you are actually Division I?

[Herd]

I'm not too worried about App. State vs. Mich. Last year the same Ball State team that lost NDSU at home played Michigan within a touchdown and lost on the last play of the game on the road. Ball State, a middle of the road MAC team also played Purdue within 5 and beat Indiana. App St. is closer to Michigan's scholarship level than a DII team would be to a DI team with 63 scholarships. I think that Michigan was ranked in the top 5 at the time of their close call against Ball State.

There are many one shot wonder examples, such as your sioux against uni last year. Was Und capable of catching Uni on a down day, yes. Could Und be successful in the Gateway conference with UNI's schedule and 36 scholarships, simply no way with their limited depth.

While you cowar at the thought of playing a top level FBS team with your DII squad, a real DI team with 63 scholarships would not. App St. will give Michigan a good game (within 14), as will the bison with MN. Could the sioux stay within 14 of App. St? I doubt it.

[Herd]

It's almost a mute point as DII teams rarely play up. The sioux played up last year against UNI for the first time in decades, only because they had already announced the DI move. Teams like UND and Grand Valley are more interested in being the big fish in a small pond. Not playing DI team is easier for them as they can spout off against DI without having to deliver.

DI teams, on the other hand, play each other and the 63 scholly teams are not afraid of the FBS big boys. Playing up and testing yourself is a way of life in FCS. Most sioux fan will appreciate this change.

[Smoggy]

It's almost a mute point as DII teams rarely play up. The sioux played up last year against UNI for the first time in decades, only because they had already announced the DI move. Teams like UND and Grand Valley are more interested in being the big fish in a small pond. Not playing DI team is easier for them as they can spout off against DI without having to deliver.

DI teams, on the other hand, play each other and the 63 scholly teams are not afraid of the FBS big boys. Playing up and testing yourself is a way of life in FCS. Most sioux fan will appreciate this change.

What Kool-Aid are you drinking? Their is one giant reason that the DI sub-division plays up: $$$

[Herd]

Yeah, the $ is part of the reason why you play up, but there are many many others. I'm not even sure I'd put $ at the top of the list.

Fans want solid schedules, not teams no-one cares about

Games yearly against top competition in big arenas, mean booster $

DI Games around the country means increased fan base and increased attendance

The better recruits and coaches want games agaist major programs to prove themselves

Major teams means national exposure. Wins put you on the map.

NDSU's game this year at Central Michigan is a huge opportunity for the bison, and it has nothing to do with a big guarantee. It's about a chance to beat the MAC champ. (recruiting +, exposure +, boosters +, coaches +, fans +) Yeah we could just play a 0 scholarship team or a DII and have an extra home game . . . yeah right. If we lose, so be it . . . anyone, anytime, anywhere.

[Bison06]

Okay, if that's your attitude, how would you like to see the Bison play this schedule...

at USC

at Michigan

at Ohio State

at Notre Dame

at Oklahoma

at Florida

at Tennessee

at Wisconsin

at Cal

at Texas

If you lose, so be it. After all, it's anyone, anywhere, anytime... Right? Hey... you said it, not me.

Our players would absolutely love that schedule and so would UND's. I realize as we get older that wins and looking good for boosters matter. But, players still have that 18 y/o ego and most guys probably think they should have ended up at one of these schools. You'll find out that your players will be much happier playing teams their friends have heard of or have played on video games than they are playing for, in the grand scheme of things, a meaningless championship. I am not downplaying d2 championships because I personally think they are a VERY big deal, but most people don't.

[Herd]

Okay, if that's your attitude, how would you like to see the Bison play this schedule...

at USC

at Michigan

at Ohio State

at Notre Dame

at Oklahoma

at Florida

at Tennessee

at Wisconsin

at Cal

at Texas

If you lose, so be it. After all, it's anyone, anywhere, anytime... Right? Hey... you said it, not me.

As an FCS football team, I would love to have 1 of those teams on the schedule each year. With a full FCS conference schedule, this is only room for 1 or 2. I'm hoping for a Wisconsin game within the next 5 years. I can't think of a game that would generate more fan interest (after MN) than a game against WI or NE.

If we move to 85 scholarships that would be a dream schedule, but of course, not realistic for a team in the MAC, WAC or bumped up MO Valley to get a game with most of these teams. But wow, who wouldn't want to play even one of these major teams. Who wouldn't want to play the best, besides you of course.

[Herd]

Sounds like a Scrappy Doo mentality to me. The fact of the matter is you aren't good enough to play those teams. Who wouldn't want to play them? Anybody who isn't capable of beating them, that's who. The goal in scheduling is to play the best possible teams that you can actually compete with. You're going to generate a lot more fan interest playing a team that you match up evenly with than you will by playing a team that considers you to be a cupcake on their schedule. When UND moves up to I-AA the games that are going to interest me most are the games against top-ranked I-AA competition. Playing a top-ranked D1 team like the ones I named does not interest me at all. Maybe you would enjoy seeing your team get killed by 50 points by a national power, but I wouldn't get off on that. If you like playing D1 opponents you should stick with the likes of Ball State and Central Michigan. You can actually compete with those guys, and I think we will too in a few short years. But the Bison (and the Sioux) have no business being on the same field as Wisconsin, Michigan, or any of those top ranked D1 programs. To think otherwise is just plain ignorant.

Whether its Ball State, CMU, MN, WI, NE . . . you believe that you can win, and you play to win. It's a team sport and the best team wins. The most all-americans, best track speed and greatest strength do not win by showing up. It's the team that executes and plays together that wins. I do not share your inferiority complex. Taking the field against teams like Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, KState and Minnesota and others in the top 50 and being competitive is what being DI in football is all about. Anytime you take the field against good competition you run the risk of getting beat by 1 or by 30. The bison lost to Cal Poly by 30 in 2005 before returning the favor by 35 in 2006. Thats the way it works sometimes. What would you rather do, play good competition or hide under a rock. Your attitude is an embarassment! Anyone, anywhere, anytime!

[NDSUFREAK10]

Whether its Ball State, CMU, MN, WI, NE . . . you believe that you can win, and you play to win. It's a team sport and the best team wins. The most all-americans, best track speed and greatest strength do not win by showing up. It's the team that executes and plays together that wins. I do not share your inferiority complex. Taking the field against teams like Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, KState and Minnesota and others in the top 50 and being competitive is what being DI in football is all about. Anytime you take the field against good competition you run the risk of getting beat by 1 or by 30. The bison lost to Cal Poly by 30 in 2005 before returning the favor by 35 in 2006. Thats the way it works sometimes. What would you rather do, play good competition or hide under a rock. Your attitude is an embarassment! Anyone, anywhere, anytime!

any given saturday.....

[Riverman]

While you cowar at the thought of playing a top level FBS team

No smack talk here...

[Riverman]

Who wouldn't want to play the best, besides you of course

What is that smacking sound???

[Herd]

I stand by my previous statement that your attitude reminds me of Scrappy Doo. According to your mentality, the top high school teams should be attempting to schedule games against NFL teams. At some point you have to stay within your own caliber of talent. It's one thing to play some teams that can challenge you and maybe even beat you, but there's no point in throwing yourself into the lion's den to try to prove you belong when you obviously don't. NDSU is to Wisconsin and Nebraska what a Chihuahua is to a Doberman. Just know your proper place in the pecking order, that's all. That isn't inferiority complex, it's being realistic. I sincerely hope the Bison do get that game against Wisconsin or Nebraska that you're dreaming about, because it would prove my point. I would get great entertainment value in seeing somebody do to the Bison what the Bison used to do to Moorhead State.

Let's see now. . . You are saying that DI FCS football is to DI FBS football, what high school football is to the NFL? Wow Dave, you are a genius. What an amazing analigy! Have you completely lost your mind? You have said some stupid stuff before, but that's craziest thing I have ever heard. Blind hatred (and I mean blind) is obviously short circuiting an logical thinking on your part.

[Herd]

It is clear that you cannot stand the success that ndsu is experiencing so early in their DI transition. That is clearly your motiviation and your blind hatred. They will reach a level that your beloved sioux may not be capable of achieving, and you clearly can't stand it. That is your motiviation disguised as ripping on DI football. It is important that everyone that reads your opinioins understands your motivations and knows where you are coming from.

Last year Ball state nearly beat Michigan, and I can think of 15-30 teams in DI FCS that could play with Ball State. How can you say that DI FCS teams do not belong on the same field as Michigan or other top FBS team. Try telling Ball State that they don't deserve to play Michigan, I think they would have a big problem with that. Often times FCS/FBS teams are recruiting the same players, how can you say that. In a team sport anything can happen on AGS.

[mksioux]

I won't claim to know whether the gap between FBS and FCS is wider than FCS and DII. However, I will say that I can't wait for UND to get to a point where it is playing -- and competing against -- the likes of Minnesota and Central Michigan (not to mention being a top-5 FCS team).

I think UND can get there, but it might take a little longer...thanks to some short-sighted leadership a few years ago.

[star2city]

It is clear that you cannot stand the success that ndsu is experiencing so early in their DI transition. That is clearly your motiviation and your blind hatred. They will reach a level that your beloved sioux may not be capable of achieving, and you clearly can't stand it. That is your motiviation disguised as ripping on DI football. It is important that everyone that reads your opinioins understands your motivations and knows where you are coming from.

Last year Ball state nearly beat Michigan,

Comparative scores are always interesting, but the downside is often neglected, like this score from 2006:

DIII Wisconsin-Lacrosse 17, South Dakota State 3

By the NDSU/SDSU result, UWL should be capable of beating NDSU, Ball State, and Michigan.

Clearly, NDSU had a great season last year, and this year they may be even stronger. On average IAA football performs well above the level of the average DII team. Many IAA teams exceed IA teams not only on a given saturday, but during the course of a whole season. A IA label does not make a IA team.

and I can think of 15-30 teams in DI FCS that could play with Ball State. How can you say that DI FCS teams do not belong on the same field as Michigan or other top FBS team. Try telling Ball State that they don't deserve to play Michigan, I think they would have a big problem with that. Often times FCS/FBS teams are recruiting the same players, how can you say that. In a team sport anything can happen on AGS.

Agreed that a number of IAA teams were better than Ball State last year. An objective ratings system like Massey suggests that 12 IAA teams would have been favorites over Ball State on a neutral field last year, which agrees with your comment:

Appalachian St

N Dakota St

Massachusetts

Montana

Youngstown St

James Madison

Portland St

New Hampshire

Illinois St

Princeton

Cal Poly SLO

UC Davis

But that same rating system lists four DII teams that would have been favored over Ball State, which is apostasy to Bison fans:

Grand Valley St

North Dakota

NW Missouri

NE Omaha

In fact that same ratings system suggests that Grand Valley would have been a favorite over every IAA team including Appalachian St, while UND would only have been an underdog to ASU, NDSU, UMass, Montana, and YSU. UND beat UNI at their field, yet it seems every NDSU fan downgrades that victory as a fluke or excuses UNI as having a down year. Yet UNI beat the two strongest Gateway teams, Youngstown State and Illinois State, and barely lost to Iowa State by one point (just like NDSU lost to UMinn).

Clearly, the bottom of DII is well below the level of IAA, but the top of DII can run with, and beat, the IAA boys.

[siouxjoy]

It's almost a mute point as DII teams rarely play up. The sioux played up last year against UNI for the first time in decades, only because they had already announced the DI move. Teams like UND and Grand Valley are more interested in being the big fish in a small pond. Not playing DI team is easier for them as they can spout off against DI without having to deliver.

While it may be your opinion on why DII teams historically haven't "played up," it is a bit of an unfair statement, considering that only very recently the criterion for DII playoff selection changed to no longer penalize teams for playing outside their division. If playing up kept a team out of the playoffs, of course you wouldn't see it happen a lot, regardless of the size of the fish and pond. Of course, the big fish of the ponds are also the teams that are most likely to have a shot at the postseason and least likely to take any scheduling steps to jeopardize that.

My 2 cents on that. Carry on with your debate.

[Herd]

Comparative scores are always interesting, but the downside is often neglected, like this score from 2006:

DIII Wisconsin-Lacrosse 17, South Dakota State 3

By the NDSU/SDSU result, UWL should be capable of beating NDSU, Ball State, and Michigan.

Clearly, NDSU had a great season last year, and this year they may be even stronger. On average IAA football performs well above the level of the average DII team. Many IAA teams exceed IA teams not only on a given saturday, but during the course of a whole season. A IA label does not make a IA team.

Agreed that a number of IAA teams were better than Ball State last year. An objective ratings system like Massey suggests that 12 IAA teams would have been favorites over Ball State on a neutral field last year, which agrees with your comment:

Appalachian St

N Dakota St

Massachusetts

Montana

Youngstown St

James Madison

Portland St

New Hampshire

Illinois St

Princeton

Cal Poly SLO

UC Davis

But that same rating system lists four DII teams that would have been favored over Ball State, which is apostasy to Bison fans:

Grand Valley St

North Dakota

NW Missouri

NE Omaha

In fact that same ratings system suggests that Grand Valley would have been a favorite over every IAA team including Appalachian St, while UND would only have been an underdog to ASU, NDSU, UMass, Montana, and YSU. UND beat UNI at their field, yet it seems every NDSU fan downgrades that victory as a fluke or excuses UNI as having a down year. Yet UNI beat the two strongest Gateway teams, Youngstown State and Illinois State, and barely lost to Iowa State by one point (just like NDSU lost to UMinn).

Clearly, the bottom of DII is well below the level of IAA, but the top of DII can run with, and beat, the IAA boys.

Agreed, the top DII can definitely hang with the DI FCS top 25. They may not have the depth to do it for a whole season, but und proved that they are a very good team. In the same way, ndsu can hang with Minnesota for a game, but would take some serious lumps playing MN's schedule week in and week out. Scholarships are a big factor over the course of a season 36-63-85. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't love to play a Michigan St, Wisconsin, or Illinois.

[bisonguy]

Comparative scores are always interesting, but the downside is often neglected, like this score from 2006:

DIII Wisconsin-Lacrosse 17, South Dakota State 3

By the NDSU/SDSU result, UWL should be capable of beating NDSU, Ball State, and Michigan.

Clearly, NDSU had a great season last year, and this year they may be even stronger. On average IAA football performs well above the level of the average DII team. Many IAA teams exceed IA teams not only on a given saturday, but during the course of a whole season. A IA label does not make a IA team.

Exactly. The comparative score index is worth less than the paper it's printed on. You could even come up with NDSU being able to stay within one score of Michigan last year, or possibly playing even with Michigan if the game was in Fargo. Not exactly reality, IMO.

Agreed that a number of IAA teams were better than Ball State last year. An objective ratings system like Massey suggests that 12 IAA teams would have been favorites over Ball State on a neutral field last year, which agrees with your comment:

Appalachian St

N Dakota St

Massachusetts

Montana

Youngstown St

James Madison

Portland St

New Hampshire

Illinois St

Princeton

Cal Poly SLO

UC Davis

But that same rating system lists four DII teams that would have been favored over Ball State, which is apostasy to Bison fans:

Grand Valley St

North Dakota

NW Missouri

NE Omaha

In fact that same ratings system suggests that Grand Valley would have been a favorite over every IAA team including Appalachian St, while UND would only have been an underdog to ASU, NDSU, UMass, Montana, and YSU. UND beat UNI at their field, yet it seems every NDSU fan downgrades that victory as a fluke or excuses UNI as having a down year. Yet UNI beat the two strongest Gateway teams, Youngstown State and Illinois State, and barely lost to Iowa State by one point (just like NDSU lost to UMinn).

Clearly, the bottom of DII is well below the level of IAA, but the top of DII can run with, and beat, the IAA boys.

Looking at the whole of NCAA football divisions within the Massey Ratings isn't exactly accurate, either. There's not enough games between the divsions to have accurate information to rank them correctly.

Here's a quote from my correspondance with Kenneth Massey when asked how accurate the Massey Ratings are between the separate divisions compared to those within a division in NCAA football:

Not as accurate due to limited mingling between the divisions, and lopsided matchups when they do play. Divisions do tend to separate fairly well, but I suspect ratings for good lower division teams are slightly inflated.

[dlsiouxfan]

While it may be your opinion on why DII teams historically haven't "played up," it is a bit of an unfair statement, considering that only very recently the criterion for DII playoff selection changed to no longer penalize teams for playing outside their division. If playing up kept a team out of the playoffs, of course you wouldn't see it happen a lot, regardless of the size of the fish and pond. Of course, the big fish of the ponds are also the teams that are most likely to have a shot at the postseason and least likely to take any scheduling steps to jeopardize that.

My 2 cents on that. Carry on with your debate.

Another reason for the lack of Top 25 DII vs Top 25 FCS matchups is due to top FCS teams not scheduling strong D-II's. There are a few exceptions which have come back to bite FCS teams in the ass (UND vs UNI, ndsu vs Montana), but for the most part when an FCS team schedules a D-II team their looking for a "little sisters of the poor" to beat down. For example look at how many FCS teams have played Oklahoma Panhandle State and other terrible DII's the past few years. Any AD who does his homework won't put his teams up against an evenly matched team from a lower division for risk of embarassment. If Grand Valley State went to Montana and offered to play them in Missoula, $100 says the Griz turn them down because it's a game they might get embarrassed in. They'd much rather beat on Fort Lewis and get a gimme win, or take a shot at a FBS team, than risk losing to a strong team from a lower division.

On a side note, "Anyplace, anywhere, anytime" must not apply to the Sioux I guess. If Taylor and Bohl could find a pair between the two of them that slogan might actually mean something.

[Bison Dan]

Another reason for the lack of Top 25 DII vs Top 25 FCS matchups is due to top FCS teams not scheduling strong D-II's. There are a few exceptions which have come back to bite FCS teams in the ass (UND vs UNI, ndsu vs Montana), but for the most part when an FCS team schedules a D-II team their looking for a "little sisters of the poor" to beat down. For example look at how many FCS teams have played Oklahoma Panhandle State and other terrible DII's the past few years. Any AD who does his homework won't put his teams up against an evenly matched team from a lower division for risk of embarassment. If Grand Valley State went to Montana and offered to play them in Missoula, $100 says the Griz turn them down because it's a game they might get embarrassed in. They'd much rather beat on Fort Lewis and get a gimme win, or take a shot at a FBS team, than risk losing to a strong team from a lower division.

On a side note, "Anyplace, anywhere, anytime" must not apply to the Sioux I guess. If Taylor and Bohl could find a pair between the two of them that slogan might actually mean something.

You had your change to play in 2004 with a 4 year contract on the desk of rt. Out of spite rt choose not to play the Bison in any sport except one baseball game. We went through the transition period without playing the Sioux because rt was trying to make it as hard as possible for our transition to DI. You Sioux fans supported rt in his quest not playing NDSU in any sport and now you can't wait to play us and help you in your transition? No we have great conferences now and in noway need any games with USD or UND, our season fb tickets sales should hit over 7,000 this year, and with 5 TV games this year you should have the pleasure of watching the Bison on the fb field.

[GeauxSioux]

I think your missing the point, seeing things through your "stream yellow" glasses. "Anyplace, anywhere, anytime" would imply that you don't make excuses for not playing someone. On a side-note, didn't baseball carry through for one more year until the Bison decided they didn't want to play UND anymore??

[choyt3]

You had your change to play in 2004 with a 4 year contract on the desk of rt. Out of spite rt choose not to play the Bison in any sport except one baseball game. We went through the transition period without playing the Sioux because rt was trying to make it as hard as possible for our transition to DI. You Sioux fans supported rt in his quest not playing NDSU in any sport and now you can't wait to play us and help you in your transition? No we have great conferences now and in noway need any games with USD or UND, our season fb tickets sales should hit over 7,000 this year, and with 5 TV games this year you should have the pleasure of watching the Bison on the fb field.

Ahh, you're one of those "in the know". This "contract" that was allegedly in the hands of Roger Thomas sure gets brought up a lot. So, you got a copy? There is this thing called a scanner that allows you to make copies and create PDF's of different things, including documents. Surely one of the millions that has seen this "contract" would be capable of doing such a thing and posting a copy on the internet. If someone is capable of emailing it to me, I'll even post it on a website. I assume it was a "fair" contract to both parties, including UND.

I guess we "choose" to blew our "change". Seriously, do you communicate the same way when speaking? You must be one of those guys that gets so worked up reading an internet message board that you can't see straight. Take a breath before typing next time. Jeez.

How's it go? "Anyplace, anywhere, anytime"? Sounds cool. I suppose it works in theory. Is Notre Dame on the schedule yet? How about UCLA? Florida? Florida State? University of NORTH DAKOTA?