Late Friday Afternoon at Montana State ...

[The Walrus]

So IYHO who is more of a problem, Ralston or the LtC?

My IYHO....Phil

Phil recomended, the LTC to Cupcake, who hire him and then the LTC hired BR....

So in short PH, CC, BR with LTCTB have accomplished the lowest moral that I've seen in A-Dept. History, with DL, GR, KZ, DH, & more not being happy

[star2city]

I think it would go 1. Tibesar; 2. Bubba; 3. Mussman or Hedberg. The "x" factor in my mind is this--if the perception is out there there Lennon left primarily due to not wanting to work for Buning anymore, how likely is it that any of his friends and/or current or former colleagues would really want to try work for somebody if Lennon couldn't? And regardless of what Lennon says publicly, I firmly believe that if Wanless or RT or Rob Bollinger or any number of other people were a.d. right now, he would have said "thanks, but no thanks" when Montana State called.

Tibesar is likely on a higher trajectory path than Lennon was: already the DC on Kansas State. Do you think he would come back as HC at UND and have to deal with a transition? If UND was several years into the transition, the chances to Tibesar coming back would be higher, IMHO.

I personally don't think Bubba or Hedberg would hesitate to jump to UND. Both programs will have to drop scholarship levels to 24 - granted they didn't have 36 anyway. The drop in the prestige of their conference and opponents could hurt their personal marketability: can't imagine they would turn down a UND job.

With Lennon having a record of cleaning up programs (didn't he basically sacrifice his first season at Mary when there was integrity/discipline issues among players), more and more it seems Lennon should actually be the favorite over the popular Carroll coach. If Lennon should go to MSU, an assistant coach or two moving with him would also hurt. Montana State's recruiting area may have to be expanded or redirected to meet higher academic standards (especially with all the California kids that caused problems). Lennon would give Montana State access to recruiting contacts in ND, Minnesota, and Wisc. With Montana having a huge number of scholarships opening this coming year, Van Diest's Montana connections might not be that benefical near term and Lennon's value rises.

If there really are benefactors that intend to donate an indoor practice facility, now seems the time for them to step up.

[star2city]

The off the field situation is a little messy in Bozeman, to say the least. The APR issue will probably be most urgent for the new coach coming in, as we've lost scholarships in the past. The ongoing criminal investigation is bad PR, but hopefully won't end up affecting the current roster too much.

SoDak Cat:

How many more FB players have left the MSU roster, which harms the APR even more? Is MSU likely to lose even more scholarships? A number of coments have been made on other boards that MSU player introductions were more akin to Snoop Doggy Dog MTV videos than representative of Montana State. Lennon wouldn't put up with that crap, which could result in even more players released. MSU could actually be in danger of losing the ability to play IA schools if their scholarship levels continue to drop. Losing future Colorado or Texas A&M games would not only harm the budget, but recruiting.

Eastern Washington supposedly fired their basketball coach this week because the players grades were atrocious, putting the whole program in jeopardy. Jumping into programs like these are high risk: like having to wade into a cesspool and hoping the depth doesn't get over your head.

[The Walrus]

Tibesar is likely on a higher trajectory path than Lennon was: already the DC on Kansas State. Do you think he would come back as HC at UND and have to deal with a transition? If UND was several years into the transition, the chances to Tibesar coming back would be higher, IMHO.

I personally don't think Bubba or Hedberg would hesitate to jump to UND. Both programs will have to drop scholarship levels to 24 - granted they didn't have 36 anyway. The drop in the prestige of their conference and opponents could hurt their personal marketability: can't imagine they would turn down a UND job.

With Lennon having a record of cleaning up programs (didn't he basically sacrifice his first season at Mary when there was integrity/discipline issues among players), more and more it seems Lennon should actually be the favorite over the popular Carroll coach. If Lennon should go to MSU, an assistant coach or two moving with him would also hurt. Montana State's recruiting area may have to be expanded or redirected to meet higher academic standards (especially with all the California kids that caused problems). Lennon would give Montana State access to recruiting contacts in ND, Minnesota, and Wisc. With Montana having a huge number of scholarships opening this coming year, Van Diest's Montana connections might not be that benefical near term and Lennon's value rises.

If there really are benefactors that intend to donate an indoor practice facility, now seems the time for them to step up.

Star good post...

Tibesar and Mussman would be very viable canidates, but under the last couple of hirings would not even be interviewed because of no head coaching exp..?

You are correct that both Bubba and Randy would have great interest, but Und 92,96 is correct about current working environment, but our only hope of keeping some of current staff would be to hire someone that is familar with UND...

We are geting way ahead of ourselves however, I believe UND is a special place for Dale and it will take a great offer to take him away, my guess he will be in the final two, and then who knows....?

Hopefully the work that is going on behind the scenes, to mend some fences in Athletics will succeed......

I know one thing for certain, lose Dale and a lot of giving alumni will not be putting up a new practice facility very soon...

[UND92,96]

My IYHO....Phil

Phil recomended, the LTC to Cupcake, who hire him and then the LTC hired BR....

So in short PH, CC, BR with LTCTB have accomplished the lowest moral that I've seen in A-Dept. History, with DL, GR, KZ, DH, & more not being happy

I realize being in charge of an athletic department isn't a popularity contest, but to have this many coaches--including the three highest-profile ones--being seriously unhappy tells me there's a problem. A big problem. And as we know, some of those coaches have friends who have a bit of influence...

[MplsBison]

I know the situations are not nearly the same, but Bohl was the DC at Nebraska before taking over without any HC experiance at NDSU and continues to take NDSU through the transition.

I don't see why Tibesar couldn't fit in that mold. He's a bit younger I suppose. But I've heard he is a very good coach. Obviously you don't get to be a coordinator in the BCS if you're not.

[IAAfan]

I can't say I know a whole lot about the other coaches, but I have no doubt that Lennon is the best coach on that list. Montana State would be crazy not to offer the job to Lennon. This is the D-I drawback. Successfull coaches don't stick around too long. The clock is ticking for Bohl, another 9 or 10 win season and we could be in the same position next year.

Not so fast on that. Not sure if you are very familiar with Mike Van Diest, but in 7 seasons at Carroll he has:

Won 6 conference championships

Made it to the playoff semifinals 6 straight years

Won 4 consecutive national championships

Posted a 20-2 playoff record

Posted a 78-16 overall record

Named conference coach of the year 5 times

Named national coach of the year 2 times

Not to mention he has a lot of DI experience, at UM, UMass and Wyoming.

[choyt3]

I know the situations are not nearly the same, but Bohl was the DC at Nebraska before taking over without any HC experiance at NDSU and continues to take NDSU through the transition.

I don't see why Tibesar couldn't fit in that mold. He's a bit younger I suppose. But I've heard he is a very good coach. Obviously you don't get to be a coordinator in the BCS if you're not.

TT's coaching ability isn't the issue. It's the criteria that has been set up by the last two committees to hire head coaches at UND. They included "head coaching experience at the NCAA level" as a requirement on each job description. Many fans feel that severely limited the pool of potential suitors for each job. Using that same criteria, TT wouldn't be an acceptable candidate, which would be a shame.

[lakesioux]

I realize being in charge of an athletic department isn't a popularity contest, but to have this many coaches--including the three highest-profile ones--being seriously unhappy tells me there's a problem. A big problem. And as we know, some of those coaches have friends who have a bit of influence...

For those of us who are 2+ hours removed from Grand Forks can anyone provide more insight on Buning? When I see him at UND games, most notably the UND-UMTC hockey series this winter, I'm really impressed in the way he carries himself, exhibits confidence and enthusiasm and has the pedal to the metal on playing NDSU and transitioning to D1 status. The rumors that so many successful and well liked coaches don't work well w/ him should be cause for some questioning. I think the world of Lennon but then again, we all thought doom when RT and Blais left and both of those changes turned out well up to this point.

[bincitysioux]

Depends on "Betty and Tom's" criteria......They may need to have been a head coach at a High School in Illinois

Here we go again..................

Tibesar and Mussman would be very viable canidates, but under the last couple of hirings would not even be interviewed because of no head coaching exp..?

What was Brian Jones' head coaching experience prior to UND?

I will now excuse myself from getting into a discussion about who should replace Dale Lennon until Dale Lennon needs to be replaced.

[bincitysioux]

The rumors that so many successful and well liked coaches don't work well w/ him should be cause for some questioning. I think the world of Lennon but then again, we all thought doom when RT and Blais left and both of those changes turned out well up to this point.

Very well said!

[Cat in SoDak]

SoDak Cat:

How many more FB players have left the MSU roster, which harms the APR even more? Is MSU likely to lose even more scholarships? A number of coments have been made on other boards that MSU player introductions were more akin to Snoop Doggy Dog MTV videos than representative of Montana State. Lennon wouldn't put up with that crap, which could result in even more players released. MSU could actually be in danger of losing the ability to play IA schools if their scholarship levels continue to drop. Losing future Colorado or Texas A&M games would not only harm the budget, but recruiting.

Eastern Washington supposedly fired their basketball coach this week because the players grades were atrocious, putting the whole program in jeopardy. Jumping into programs like these are high risk: like having to wade into a cesspool and hoping the depth doesn't get over your head.

I don't think anybody has left since Kramer was fired. We did have a couple of OL that were academically ineligible for spring ball. I don't know all the details regarding future scholarship losses, but I've heard we could lose up to 3 if we don't show improvement.

The player introductions you mention were embarrasing. I remember seeing them before the Montana - Montana St. game and just shaking my head.

I think the reliance on 1-A dropdowns has had an extremely negative effect on our program off the field. Kids coming to play for a year or two but making little progress towards a degree is crippling under the new measurement system. I'm not implying this was always the case, but it doesn't take too many occurrences to put your APR in the sewer. MSU recently completed a thorough review of their recruiting practices, which will hopefully lead to some positive changes.

For the most part, I believe we have good kids and MSU is a wonderful place to go to school. Unfortunately, the actions of a few have put a black cloud over the program. I don't think the new staff will be wading into a cesspool, but there will be challenges.

[NDSUFREAK10]

Totally agree!!!

Because GVSU could definitely play with App State! Well, it is the same isn't it?? riigghhhtttt

[UND92,96]

I realize there was a Herald article on Saturday, but the fact that none of the sportswriters has done a blog entry on the Lennon issue is perplexing to me. You know for a fact that Kolpack/Hallstrom would have written several entries by now if Bohl were a finalist elsewhere.

[Shawn-O]

I can think of a couple examples off the top of my head of top 20 ranked D2 teams beating top 20 ranked I-AA teams... NDSU over Montana in '03 and UND over Northern Iowa last year. How many examples can you give me of top 20 ranked I-AA teams beating top 20 ranked D1 teams?

Yes, I believe GVSU could most definitely hang in there with Appalachain State for at least three quarters.

I agree with DaveK. Don't sell the greatest dynasty in D-II history short, NDSUFREAK.

[GeauxSioux]

Is there no checking of facts in journalism anymore?

Carroll's Van Diest a finalist for MSU coaching job

Head coaches Dale Lennon of North Dakota State University and Rob Ash of Drake University along with assistant coach Larry Kerr of Duke University are the others under consideration.

A former standout at NDSU, Lennon has led the Fighting Sioux to one Division II national championship, one runner-up finish and four North Central Conference championships since returning to his alma mater as head coach in 1999.

[Bison Dan]

I agree with DaveK. Don't sell the greatest dynasty in D-II history short, NDSUFREAK.

Only in your mind. When did they have most of the success? Oh that's right after most of the power has left dii.

[Bison Dan]

I realize there was a Herald article on Saturday, but the fact that none of the sportswriters has done a blog entry on the Lennon issue is perplexing to me. You know for a fact that Kolpack/Hallstrom would have written several entries by now if Bohl were a finalist elsewhere.

Kind of what I've always said. Herald sportswriters are all about protecting UND and not about getting the sports out.

[Shawn-O]

Only in your mind. When did they have most of the success? Oh that's right after most of the power has left dii.

The "power"? NDSU wasn't a factor for over a decade before leaving. Quit living in the past.

[star2city]

Only in your mind. When did they (GVSU) have most of the success? Oh that's right after most of the power has left dii.

GVSU didn't exist as a school until 1960: they didn't have any kind of alumni base to help fund their programs in the 1980's. They didn't even move to the NCAA until the 90's (?). By that kind of garbage thought process, USF and UCF, which barely existed during the "glory" days of DII, can't ever be BCS programs, and formerly glory DI programs like Fordham, Southern Methodist, and Tulane are still on top.

[star2city]

Bozeman Chronicle: Cocaine spreading into community

Jokingly referred to as Moo U, or the school of cows, plows and sows, MSU recently adopted its own slogan,

[Hansel]

Bozeman Chronicle: Cocaine spreading into community

this was the lead article in the print edition of the paper- and the negativity surrounding MSU athletics in the community is why Kramer needed to go IMHO.

If I have the time I plan on stopping by the Lennon and Van Diest open forums next week and will report

[Hansel]

Right now USD and UND are football programs on pretty equal footing, if Lennon leaves...who knows? You guys may be in for some rocky times, while we are firing on all cylinders.

USD and UND are not on equal footing- UND has been good for a long time USD has had a couple of decent seasons after UNC, NDSU, and SDSU (who USD went 7-34 against over the last 14 years) left.

obviously I am not a UND fan but the difference between UND and USD is that UND is at the point where the program will be OK without Lennon (if he decided to leave of course), they have been good for long enough that they can even "weather" a bad coach even if LTC f's up (again?), the fans alumni etc will demand it. if Meirkort (sp?) leaves and USD has a 5-6 or worse season there is a decent chance they could be in crapsville once again.

[RD17]

I think the chances of Lennon leaving for Montana State are extremely slim. My reasons why I feel that way:

- It's not that big of a deal to be asked to apply for a job, send in a resume, and then spend 45 minutes doing a phone interview. That's the point we are at right now. With DL's credentials, he's going to a be in the running for any job he applies for. Just because he's been named a finalist for a job he was asked to apply for doesn't mean he's a lock to take the job if offered.

- Everyone knows that Dale's long-term goal is to transform UND into a D-I football program and that he has worked his tail off behind the scenes the last couple of years to help make it happen. It would be very surprising to see him leave when he's just about to get the chance to do what he's been wanting to do.

- I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Dale's oldest son is going to be a senior at GFC this fall and another son is going to be a junior. Obviously, that's a very tough time to be moving a family. Plus, with it being June already, if he did move there are only two months to find a house, get the kids in new schools, etc. before the start of school and fall practice.

- From the sounds of it, MSU's roster is littered with players that wouldn't last one practice playing for DL. With it being this close to the start of the season, there is no time to start cleaning house and recruiting players that can be a fit in Lennon's system. The job would be much more attractive if they were hiring in December.

- I think Dale Lennon is the best man for the job and MSU would be crazy not to offer it to him. But it sounds like Mike Van Diest is the favorite among the majority of the MSU supporters and the MSU administration is probably under tremendous pressure to go with the flow and hire him after all of the problems in the Kramer regime. It's most likely that Dale won't be offered the position anyway.

- With UND now transitioning to D-I and how sound the football program is right now, MSU is a lateral move at best.

All of that said, if Dale does decide to leave UND at this point, it should become apparent that the rumored internal problems in the athletic department are more than just rumors.

Ultimately, I think Dale Lennon's flirtation with this job is a shrewd political move on his part designed to scare the pants off of the administration and most specifically Buning. I imagine there will be several of those football alumni with deep pockets putting a tremendous amount of pressure on Kupchella and Buning this week in regard to retaining Lennon. No doubt there will be a few "you had better straighten this out with him or we withhold $" conversations going on in the next several days.

[Hansel]

With UND now transitioning to D-I and how sound the football program is right now, MSU is a lateral move at best.

More money, more fan support, being the "top sport", instantly being in a FCS autobid conference rather than 5 years until FCS playoff elibility. If Lennon wants to coach a BCS level sometime in the distant future MSU would be a better "springboard" IMHO.