Statistics

[siouxtatoo42]

Thought on the Kessel Oshie bit:

They are both special players and Kessel will win based on his high point total without looking further. I haven't seen Kessel in person enough to make an educated statement of his total game, but I do know that you can put together a wonderful highlight reel showing both players offensive abilities, but Oshie highlights of his big hits would get as many ooohs and aaahs as the others. I haven't seen Kessel lay anyone out yet. Oshie's physical play does add another dimension.

Has anyone even seem a player, and a freshman at that, knock as many people on their a** while carrying the puck?

i just can't believe how hard he hits people, with or without the puck, he absolutely BRINGS THE WOOD!! before the game on sunday, when they did the whole highlight reel intro, i counted 5 BLASTS by oshie, the kind where the player looks around and collects himself before he gets up, and moreso, THEY INITIATED THE HIT!! and it was a strictly MSUM highlight clip. This kid is one of the rare talents, and it is an absolute privelage to have him play here at UND.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Wrong again. I'm obsessed with goophie fans that actually think anyone here gives a damn about what they think, then whine about it when someone calls them out. Think about what you post and where you post it. I'm sure that I'm not stupid enough to go over to goopher puke live and discredit a certain goopher's misleading phantom assists, but you people just don't seem to learn this. As far as me being a jerk, that's nothing profound, hell I've admitted it many times right here. I'm also disrespectful, unsympathetic, mean-spirited, spiteful, and many other adjectives, thanks for noticing though.

Here's what you said: "None of this is Oshie bashing, he's a great player. But being credited with game winning goals turns out to be more luck than anything else." Then you said : " I NEVER once said Oshie's goals were luck....................." If you are going to bash, then bash and stick to your guns, at least then it's somewhat respectable, instead of bashing then back-pedalling.

[yekcoh]

i just can't believe how hard he hits people, with or without the puck, he absolutely BRINGS THE WOOD!! before the game on sunday, when they did the whole highlight reel intro, i counted 5 BLASTS by oshie, the kind where the player looks around and collects himself before he gets up, and moreso, THEY INITIATED THE HIT!! and it was a strictly MSUM highlight clip. This kid is one of the rare talents, and it is an absolute privelage to have him play here at UND.

And he is only like 5'11" and 182 lbs. He plays much bigger!

[dagies]

LESS FILLING.

Now cue the two girls wrestling around in the water fountain.

Now we're debating something!

[Slap Shot]

Perhaps. But you know darn well that if Potulny or some other Minnesota player (especially a freshman) led the nation in this stat, most Gopher fans wouldn't be so quick to toss it into the saltshaker.

There only appears to be one Gopher fan here even hinting that the stat is meaningless. More importantly, whomever leads the nation in the category is irrlevent and I wouldn't hesitate to point this out if Potulny led the nation in stat. Bucky has a slight point in that the stat itself doesn't necessarily tell the whole story - that's not to say it's meaningless nor does it take anything away from anything Oshie accomplished. Would it be so hard to admit the GWG of 6-1 game isn't as significant as the GWG in which the final score was 2-1?

[THETRIOUXPER]

It's still the game winner either way. If a certain goopher player got an assist because he took a shot from the point and it bounced off the goalie, or he just made a tape-to-tape pass is it not still an assist ? Or are there now different degrees of importance regarding assists as well ?

[Tsiouxnami]

There only appears to be one Gopher fan here even hinting that the stat is meaningless. More importantly, whomever leads the nation in the category is irrlevent and I wouldn't hesitate to point this out if Potulny led the nation in stat. Bucky has a slight point in that the stat itself doesn't necessarily tell the whole story - that's not to say it's meaningless nor does it take anything away from anything Oshie accomplished. Would it be so hard to admit the GWG of 6-1 game isn't as significant as the GWG in which the final score was 2-1?

I tend to disagree a bit here. If the game is being completely dominated by one team, then yes, the GWG maybe doesn't mean as much. . .but who's to say that that goal, at that time in the game, was not the tide turner? Funny things spark teams to victory (and blowouts!), so I say it is not a meaningless stat.

[Slap Shot]

I tend to disagree a bit here. If the game is being completely dominated by one team, then yes, the GWG maybe doesn't mean as much. . .but who's to say that that goal, at that time in the game, was not the tide turner? Funny things spark teams to victory (and blowouts!), so I say it is not a meaningless stat.

This is precisely why I said the stat isn't meaningless, only that rather it should be viewed with a grain of salt. Despite TRIOUXPER's fixation with arguing everything based upon provinciality, I'm not interested in discrediting the stat simply because a Sioux player leads the category. It's still a great accomplishment no matter what.

That said, I'm going to stop right here. Unfortunately, some people are incapable of thinking outside the box when it comes to discussing their favorite team/players. Not saying, "___ is the greatest player since Tonky Hrkac" doesn't mean, "he sucks" - it's ok to view our favorite players/team as human. I don't care if a Gopher led the category, I'd have said the exact same thing. However, I do appreciate that you and PCM and few others appear to have accepted the fact I can post here just wishing to talk hockey, and not brag about the Gophers nor rip upon the Sioux.

[sagard]

GWG is a fine stat, but I think it should be calculated the way it is in baseball. The GWG should be defined as the goal that gives the team a lead it never relinquishes. If a team scores 1st and cruises to a 7-3 victory, the person who score the 4th goal (maybe giving them a 4-1 lead) should not get the GWG in my opinion.

Of course maybe it is like the baseball GWRBI and then I'm happy.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Answer me this slappy, and don't duck the question. If I went over to gpl and somehow discredited or otherwise attempted to taint your golden boy (purposely or not), how many of those guys would jump all over me ? Be honest now, cause everyone here knows the answer, but I want to hear what you think.

[Goon]

This web page is becoming a all Kessel and TJ all the time. Yikes I thought we got over that when Zach left town for NJ.

[buckysieve]

Wrong again. I'm obsessed with goophie fans that actually think anyone here gives a damn about what they think, then whine about it when someone calls them out. Think about what you post and where you post it.

So just because I'm a Gopher fan I can't give my opinion on a Sioux message board? I like hearing opinions of fans of another team. You act like I said something offensive when in reality I just gave my opinion that game winning goals can be a misleading stat. I'm not coming on here and saying bad things about the Sioux or Oshie. I was just engaging in normal conversation and you, just because I'm a Gopher fan, say that no one hear cares what I think. I'm sorry, I thought we were all college hockey fans who can listen to other peoples opinions and not be a jerk just because we disagree. Most Sioux fans I talk to when I'm in Grand Forks are very nice and same for this site. But you are so over the top that you can't even listen to someone's opinion just because of the team they cheer for.

[buckysieve]

Answer me this slappy, and don't duck the question. If I went over to gpl and somehow discredited or otherwise attempted to taint your golden boy (purposely or not), how many of those guys would jump all over me ? Be honest now, cause everyone here knows the answer, but I want to hear what you think.

I wasn't discrediting or tainting anything Oshie has accomplished. That's why I made clear that I think Oshie is a great player. I'm discrediting the stat of game winning goals and how it's kept.

[Sioux_Hab-it]

So just because I'm a Gopher fan I can't give my opinion on a Sioux message board? I like hearing opinions of fans of another team. You act like I said something offensive when in reality I just gave my opinion that game winning goals can be a misleading stat. I'm not coming on here and saying bad things about the Sioux or Oshie. I was just engaging in normal conversation and you, just because I'm a Gopher fan, say that no one hear cares what I think. I'm sorry, I thought we were all college hockey fans who can listen to other peoples opinions and not be a jerk just because we disagree. Most Sioux fans I talk to when I'm in Grand Forks are very nice and same for this site. But you are so over the top that you can't even listen to someone's opinion just because of the team they cheer for.

Bucky you said meaningless and you are on the Sioux site. Rewind a few posts and check it out. I did try to change the discussion to Parise's impressive stats but your obsession with Oshie's success just won't allow you to move on will it.

[THETRIOUXPER]

I don't care who you cheer for, I don't like your opinion because it is flawed, like I pointed out. As far as me, I could care less what you think of me, I won't lose any sleep over the fact that you don't care for me. I think someone else pointed it out already, but with a confrontational name like buckysucks, it amazes me that you of all people would be offended by an opposing team's fan(s) and their opinions.

[buckysieve]

Bucky you said meaningless and you are on the Sioux site. Rewind a few posts and check it out. I did try to change the discussion to Parise's impressive stats but your obsession with Oshie's success just won't allow you to move on will it.

Why is it so hard to understand that I'm not dissing Oshie, I'm dissing the stat of game winning goals. I've had this same opinion for as long as I have been a hockey fan so obviously I'm not saying this just because Oshie happens to be leading this stat.

[sprig]

Why is it so hard to understand that I'm not dissing Oshie, I'm dissing the stat of game winning goals. I've had this same opinion for as long as I have been a hockey fan so obviously I'm not saying this just because Oshie happens to be leading this stat.

Then why to you continue to argue about it. Give it a rest, skippie

[Slap Shot]

Answer me this slappy, and don't duck the question. If I went over to gpl and somehow discredited or otherwise attempted to taint your golden boy (purposely or not), how many of those guys would jump all over me ? Be honest now, cause everyone here knows the answer, but I want to hear what you think.

If he actually tried to taint Oshie you might have a point, but he didn't. Who cares where the post was made? That you wouldn't make a false statement about Kessel at GPL just because it's a Gopher board is a flawed logic - why say something you know to be false just because you're surrounded by your own kind?

The difference here is that Bucky didn't discredit Oshie nor "taint" him - he said the GWG stat is somewhat meaningless. That it happened to be on the heels of the stat being touted for Oshie may have been bad timing on his part, but he's also said ad nauseum Oshie is a great player. Is he lying on one point and not the other? Or is he sincere on both counts? All I got from this was that in Bucky's opinion, it's nothing more than a single stat that can be viewed on more than one level, but this same poster has gone out of his way to mention the fact he thinks quite highly of Oshie. Yet you act as if he shot your mother. Ok?

[Sioux_Hab-it]

If he actually tried to taint Oshie you might have a point, but he didn't. Who cares where the post was made? That you wouldn't make a false statement about Kessel at GPL just because it's a Gopher board is a flawed logic - why say something you know to be false just because you're surrounded by your own kind?

The difference here is that Bucky didn't discredit Oshie nor "taint" him - he said the GWG stat is somewhat meaningless. That it happened to be on the heels of the stat being touted for Oshie may have been bad timing on his part, but he's also said ad nauseum Oshie is a great player. Is he lying on one point and not the other? Or is he sincere on both counts? All I got from this was that in Bucky's opinion, it's nothing more than a single stat that can be viewed on more than one level, but this same poster has gone out of his way to mention the fact he thinks quite highly of Oshie. Yet you act as if he shot your mother. Ok?

So by your fine logic then I guess you wouldn't take offence if we suggested that although some Gopher teams over the years have been very talented many of their banners, trophies and championships are somewhat meaningless because the Gophers were awarded a disproportional number of playoff games at home. The only ones that really matter are the ones that were won entirely on the road. Think about it.

[dagies]

LESS FILLING.

TASTES GREAT!

[CVCL]

Glancing at UND's season stats after the first-round series, and a few things jumped out at me:

1. Oshie and Toews, two freshmen forwards, have scored a combined 40 goals this season. That is a pretty remarkable number. I haven't gone looking yet, but I'm guessing that's a pretty rare occurrence.

2. Lee and Chorney, two freshmen defensemen, have a combined 6-32-38 line. That is more than just solid for freshmen at that position.

3. Matt Smaby's scoring line after two years was 2-8-10 in 83 games. This year he has 3-13-16 in 41 games (so far). He's following the development curve perfectly: 1. Adjust to college, 2. control your own zone, 3. add offense, 4. dominate everywhere.

4. Seven players have played all 41 games this year: Smaby, Porter, Zajac, Duncan, Kozek, Watkins, Jones. Four freshmen and three others, reflecting the overall makeup of the team. Congrats to those guys.

Oh, sorry didn't mean to interupt the Parise/Vanek argument. This thread was about the statement and players above.

Knock it off. This was a good thread. Now it looks like the ND High School Hockey Thread. If you need someone to seperate you two...

Oh, and if that doesn't work can I have the last word? Please? Please? Please?

oh, wait, Please?

[THETRIOUXPER]

Slappy you still didn't answer my question, but chose to dance around it. Let me simplify so you understand. If I had done the same thing on gpl would I face scrutiny or not ? Just answer the damn question, yes or no. Don't try to convince anyone with long drawn out logic. Just a simple yes or no.

[airmail]

Slappy you still didn't answer my question, but chose to dance around it. Let me simplify so you understand. If I had done the same thing on gpl would I face scrutiny or not ? Just answer the damn question, yes or no. Don't try to convince anyone with long drawn out logic. Just a simple yes or no.

Let it go already.

[tnt]

Obviously the big names will be on a list like this. If you score a lot of goals, odds are that some will turn out to be game winners. If Potulny was leading this category I'd feel the exact same way.

In January in Minneapolis Zajac scored with about a minute left in the third period to give the Sioux the win. On this past Sunday the Sioux scored( I don't know who) early in the first period for a 1-0 lead. Both goals were game winners. Can you honestly tell me that the game winner this past Sunday in the FIRST period was as clutch as Zajac's in January? It's not hard too see why this stat can be misleading.

None of this is Oshie bashing, he's a great player. But being credited with game winning goals turns out to be more luck than anything else.

And if he scores that goal early on, is it any less significant. On the contrary most teams that take the early lead, especially UND go on to win a larger percentage of the time if they take early leads. In that sense it doesn't matter when they are scored, because it got the team a much needed goal. So tell me, if the Sioux were ahead 1-0 against the gophers in a regional game, and someone scored to go up 2-0, and it eventually turned out to be the game winner, it wouldn't mean much. To me getting up 2-0 would be huge, especially if your team was a very defensive team.

[PCM]

There only appears to be one Gopher fan here even hinting that the stat is meaningless.

Note that I wasn't addressing that comment. I was addressing your "grain of salt" comment.

More importantly, whomever leads the nation in the category is irrlevent and I wouldn't hesitate to point this out if Potulny led the nation in stat.

Maybe you wouldn't and maybe bucksucks wouldn't, but you have to admit that you two would be a small minority among Gopher fans. And I would absolutely, positively guarantee that if Potulny were leading the nation in this stat, the U of M would be trumpeting it far and wide while hyping him as a Hobey candidate.

Bucky has a slight point in that the stat itself doesn't necessarily tell the whole story...

I have a point, too, which is that who scores a goal, who gets a first assist and who gets a second assist doesn't necessarily tell the story of which player on the ice was most instrumental in creating the play that resulted in the goal.

For example, on North Dakota's first goal Friday, Zajac got credit for the goal, Spirko got the first assist and Chorney got the second assist. Yet the play would never have happened if Oshie hadn't alertly jumped on an MSU outlet pass, tossed the puck over to Chorney, who dished it to Spirko who centered it to Zajac who put it in the back door. Oshie doesn't even show up in the stats, even though he probably played the greatest role in setting up the goal.

I'm not citing this to toot Oshie's horn, only to demonstrate that the importance of what happens on the ice doesn't always show up in the stats. Unless you were there to see what happened, you'd have no clue whatsoever that some player other than three who got the goal and the assists was involved in setting up the scoring opportunity.

We don't put an asterisk or some other symbol by every goal or assist to indicate each player's relative importance in the goal being scored or the relative importance of when the goal was scored in the game. Second assists count just as much as first assists, even though there are times when one is more important than the other. All goals (except one) scored in an 10-0 blowout in a meaningless game count just as much as all goals (except one) scored in a 2-1 overtime game when the league championship is on the line.

So do me a favor. Get a copy of the Minnesota men's ice hockey media guide and check to see if that "grain of salt" statistic is included in the team records section. If it is (and I'd bet money that it is), tell me what long-forgotten-nobody-remembers-their-names Gopher players are on that list. Because I'm sure that when Aaron Broten in 1981 tied the NCAA record for game-winning goals in a season, 90 percent of the Gopher fans in Minnesota merely shrugged and said, "So what?"